Dear Blizzard

What i mean is the highest keys meta isn’t about bloodlust or combat resses. Otherwise something like unholy/frost DK or elemental shaman would be meta. You try to get specs closer to the top, but the top almost does not run classes with them in the first place. So you want to basically ‘buff’ all those already meta specs that does not have BL or CR.

When a boomkin would only there for the CR, in a new meta with every spec a CR, boomkin would never make it into those groups.

I dont agree there. Elemental Shaman would be meta IF there was no other possibility of having a BL. And even then, you would choose between Elemental and Enh. Whichever does the most DPS cause their utility and damage profile (prio damage) is almost identical.

And when the 2 shaman specs dont pack the required punch (compared to thers),its no surprise that RShaman is brought more often to high keys. Its what happens when Mages are not the top DPS (and Evokers are not a thing). Like at the end of S1 for example.

I feel like you ignore the fact that 4 out of 5 specs in the current meta do not have a battle res, and 3 out of 5 do not have bloodlust (you only need 1 BL in your group anyway). You do not bring meta and the highest of the highest specs closer to each other to give more of those to everyone, including the current meta.

And for sure you do not help enh/elemental shaman to get into meta with that.

My point stands; meta is about basically everything but BL and CR.

OK. Il just say it one last time in other words :

I agree, there are many more reasons for the Meta.

But BL and CR is one of them. So much so, that comps prefer to take a spec that is 5% weaker than another one with CR. And when one spec with out CR (DH for example) becomes so powerful that its convenient to take the spec, you replace some other spec in your comp with one that has CR.

I can give you tons of examples. Week by week. Season by season up to BFA.

But il let you explore that. Its what the evolution of “the meta” shows on real data :

mythicstats .com/meta

Have a look. There is ALWAYS a spec with CR and BL there. How weird isent it?

That is basically proving my point. Meta is about damage profiles, utility, specs that complement each other. And then in the end they try to shuffle in CR and BL when they don’t have it in their comp yet (considering mage is 90% of the time meta because it blasts).

And you aren’t making frost dk meta or closer by the top keys by giving it bloodlust too.

Imagine balance druid is literally only in the group for a CR; with every spec having a CR balance is kicked out and people find a spec that complements specs and the damage profile better. So even the top best comp will get higher.

Correct.

And 100% of the time, this ends up in taking a sub-par spec with similar damage profile / utility (comparatively speaking) only because it has one of those buffs.

And this creates a problem to those that dont have the buff. Why ? Think about it :

You want warriors to be meta ? OK. Buff its damage / utility MORE than what other meta specs than do. Not EQUAL. MORE. Significantly more. Why not equal? Because if it was, then you bring someone with CR/BL.

What happens now that warriors do a lot of dps? Well then it will replace a spot in the meta comp. If that spot is taken by someone that gives CR or BL. Then, someone else in that comp will be replaced by someone that has CR/BL, but is sub-sub par in performance to one that dosent.

But then were back to square 1. Lets talk about rogues now… This tradeoff policy is a loop that cant be broken. And if you dont do anything, you end up where we are now. Unless you homogenize classes.

And sure. CR and BL are not the only factors here. You are 100% correct. But I believe that exiting the loop above is generally a good thing. Because it would allow for more comps, instead of just 1 meta.

We will never exit something like that. There will always be a meta.

So IMO: the tradeoff policy I think its too complex. Because you balance DPS with Utility (2 different things). Its hard to measure, and its easier to balance DPS with DPS and Utility with Utility.

So the only option is Homogenization. But making all classes would be boring. But if you do it only to BL and CR, atleast the meta would be less opressive and we keep all the good stuff we love from spec diversity.

Dont you think we are already at a very good balance? Like current highest arms warrior is timing up to +32 too. Without bloodlust, without CR, without being a top utility spec. Isn’t it just fine that the top 1 or 2 keylevels people find specs that complement each other a little better? That is basically what professionals can make of it in the tiny min-maxing world.

Critcake runs with a Ret and RShaman. :slight_smile:

Also. Yes. DF (with the exception of S2) has been amazing when it comes to balancing classes.

So not only do I agree, I also should not complain too much.

However, its a never ending job this “tuning” business. And there are still things to be improved im sure.

Basically proving the whole point.

Also, these off-meta specs that run such high keys. They tend to be streamers of some kind.

So im not even sure if they are doing that on purpose for views.

I reserve my opinion on what is going on with them. I find it suspicious that everyone else is not runing those specs. There has to be a reason for that.

I can’t follow professional decisions often anyway. I am not living on that level. I can just play any spec i enjoy :grin:

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Me too. Kudos to that. 100%.

If anything, DF has been a good expansion for this (except S2).

For everyone who isn’t professional you are always able to play what you enjoy. Also DF s2. It is true you can maybe get higher playing a comp that is full meta, but the question is you have more fun with it or not. It is just a game for free time afterall.

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This. So much this. Sure some people playing at the highest level enjoy playing anything if it gets them into higher and higher keys, but im willing to bet that a majority of them isnt enjoying the class or spec they are playing, they just play it because its better.
Its a game, do stuff you like.

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You are right.

But its not my personal experience in S2. Have PTSD or something. I was happily doing my 24s (far from top world first) and from one day to the next…

I got zero invites to groups.

And when I did my own groups, having an Aug in the party was just too good to not have. The issue is that not all Augs are made equal. Too many FOTM rerollers that could not play it properly.

So TLDR… My season went from happily doing keys… to having to fight for my spot on them… So my season was over. Just like that.

Of course. Only because of CR. Nothing to do with solar beam being the most powerful AOE silence in the game.

Dont be sarcastic. There are other reasons why the comps exist. AoE silence is just one of the positive reasons.

But CR is another one of those reasons. Common… :slight_smile:

The problem I have is that you seem so stuck with this idea that the top comps revolve around CR and BL that you ignore everything else. It makes it difficult to actually have a conversation because, no matter what anyone says, you always come back to, “But CR and BL…”

Yea Jesus get over the CR and lust.

Boomies also have MOTW, soothe, roar, vortex, dispel, a mob displacement and even trees to take aggro should the need for such things come back. I’m sure theres lots of other stuff they bring.

Oh, and uncapped aoe.

While I get, and support your suggestion to a certain degree.
It’s not gonna change anything realistically at the top end.
And as we know, the average joe just copies the top end for his +15. So not gonna change a lot there either.

At the very top you’re always gonna have a meta because XYZ is just a bit better, either because of personal defensives or slightly more dmg or w/e else, maybe it brings another AoE stun. Either way, you’re always gonna have a meta.
Combat buffs are just a small part of what makes the meta comps.

If you want to eliminate meta comps, the only way is to just have 1 DPS, 1 healer and 1 tank spec in the game. And all forms of customizations is just on the looks of spells and abilities.

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