deleted thread, deleted thread
As much as I would like to try TBC PvE content in its pre-nerf state, I don’t see it happening, because:
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A pure patch progression is simply unviable. People are not gonna like having to wait until 2.3 for GBanks, or 2.1 for consumables no longer stacking like they do in Vanilla, or for all the other basic QoL improvements we’ve been used to throughout TBC (Though, judging from your comment about 2.4.3 talents it’s probably not what you’re asking for so yeah)
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Having encounters in their pre-nerf state would force Blizzard to choose between:
a) Keeping encounters in that state for the entirety of TBC
b) Create phases for each batch of nerfs that happened throughout TBC
Option 2a) is prolly what you’re asking to but it’s likely not going to happen. If you look at the entirety of TBC progression, from Kara to SWP, and take all encounters in their strongest version, the difficulty curve is going to be incredibly inconsistent. Some fights, like Magtheridon and Kael’thas, are gonna be harder than fights 1 or even 2 tiers above them (I definitely would put pre-nerf Kael above Kalecgos in terms of difficulty, for example - even assuming same gear level for both). A large part of the reason why Blizz nerfed some of these encounters (even repeatedly, in Kael’s case) was to smooth out the difficulty curve so that T5 content was actually harder than T4, T6 was harder than T5, and so on.
Option 2b) is a bit more sensible than option 2a), but would require Blizzard to actually create several builds in anticipation for their release, since encounter changes can’t be simply timegated on the same version of the game. They’d need to create a 2.5.1, 2.5.2, 2.5.3 etc. in advance, pacing nerfs across all these builds. And, whenever an actual bug fix is needed in one of these versions, they’d need to implement it in all the other versions as well. That, to me, sounds like more than what Blizzard would want to commit itself to.
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Oh yeah, you’re right concerning flasks: the original 2.0 system was super annoying, so I’m in favor of removing that obligation, and that’s exactly what happened on pservers (you know, only having access to one, making wipes much less of a problem because you don’t farm nearly as much and a wipe doesn’t cost you an arm anymore)
About prenerf values: sure you gotta keep the raids enemies and raid bosses untouched, BUT the good thing is that once they decide to launch 2.1 content, they can then start using 2.1 itemization, which makes t4 and t5 raids easier to clean for guilds.
That’s what they did on the pservers I played on, and it really worked wonders. I’m sure it wouldn’t be hard for blizzard to do the same
The problem with that is that, if you apply both things (both the consumable nerf and the pre 2.1 itemization/enemy stats, you’re basically creating a level of difficulty higher than anything ever existing in TBC back then - which is something I always loathed pservers for doing. I want to play the game as it was - or at least in a state of things that actually existed - not some kind of hardcore version handcrafted for the most dedicated pserver playerbase.
Pservers - especially TBC ones - have also been exceptionally, uh, permissive about the magnitude of bugs allowed into their builds. I’m no technician so I can’t tell for sure, but judging from Blizzard’s own actions, having to manage and maintain multiple patches of the same game at once sounds like more hassle than they’re willing to.
I don’t want tbc to be piss easy because of lazy devs and an executive team that goes “just give them stock boys, who cares, they’ll come to play anyways”, so yeah, I agree.
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Exactly, if we get 2.4 kz and the like you’re better off playing private. Blizzard made a big chunk of cash, our servers are still dogsh!t, atleast make the content worthwhile.
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At least you wouldn’t have mobs walking through walls or acting weirdly on an official server. TBC pservers have an awful record for scripting, even to this day.
netherwing is awesome to this day though
16 million HP Brutallus doesn’t exactly scream “blizzlike” to me
Hmm nice thread.
Guess OP can answer this question then:
What do I wanna roll if I want to top dps meters in raids? XD
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I disagree. Pre 2.1 itemization is pure cancer to the point where you are still wearing some t3 pieces into t5 content. Also pre 2.1 is a relatively short period and only super hardcore players were able to experience it so for the 99% of players it won’t be an authentic experience. I personally would sacrifice raid difficulty for a proper itemization and overall polish.
Amen to that.
Hopefully we’ll see something closer to the actual TBC compared to what Classic is to Vanilla.
I would also ask to either have smaller servers and/or active resapwn rates for resources too (with numbers abalnced around what is fair ofc) because right now ppl are forced to DM:E farming in roder to get some stuff.
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And even if that sometimes occurs I had a better time on privates as in classic. It’s all or nothing, blizzard has the resources. They failed us too many times already. I gladly take some mobs glitching over a paid product that’s only half finished.
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Well, some ppl say they had better times on Vanilla pservers than Classic. I haven’t. So I guess it’s a matter of preferences.
Lol, I can, but you make me sad xD
Basically, it depends on the tier and the itemization
tier 4: all casters are good, and melees are mediocre. You’re going to see mages, locks and hunters at the top. Sometimes spriests/balance druids and ele shamans.
tier 5: rogues and warriors go from mediocre to average, they’re ok. Elemental shamans, spriests and balance druids are at the same level (they don’t scale very well, but spriests are mandatory). Locks, hunters and mages are still the top dpsers at that point.
Tier 6 (sunwell and hyjal): rogues and fury warriors (slam warriors are not very good after tier 5 imo, although they are before that) are finally “good”, able to do quite well in terms of dps. Mages go from top tier to “good”, like rogues and warriors. Hunters and locks top the dmg meters. Enhancement shamans and ret paladins start to become viable at that point, as they can deal some good damage, and bring utility (although you’re supposed to bring one enhancement shaman in general even before t6). All the hybrid casters start being meh at that point, but spriests are still mandatory.
Tier 6+ (sunwell): It’s all about rogues with legendaries, warlocks and hunters. IF your fury warrior has legendaries, he can be up there with them as well. Then you got the rest, literally.
Don’t worry about being the top dps too much in tbc though: if you do average dps, usually you bring a lot of utility (like feral druids, ret pallies, enhancement or ele shamans, balance druids, yada yada). Blizzard wanted hybrid classes to dps, without being as good as pure classes BUT being able to bring utility. The best example is obviously spriest (mana battery, dmg buff, shadow dmg buff, aoe heal while dealing dmg…)
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Thanks for the long explanation ! Im gonna continue playing my Hunter then ! 
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To add on what Raiken said - in terms of DPS, literally every class has at least 1 slot in a 25m raid, though ofc some have more slots than others. For example, as a rogue you generally can’t expect more than 1 or 2 slots for your class, but as a hunter it’s not strange to see 3 in the same raid, and warlocks can even go up to 4 or 5. So it’s less of a “nobody will want me in their raid” and more of “I might have to compete more/less for a certain slot”. Though that depends on the population too - the hunter/lock pop, for example, will likely surge a lot with TBC.
Mages are prolly the ones hit the hardest, but outside of extremely hardcore guilds you don’t have to worry about being benched for SWP. Despite being overall worse than warlocks, mages can still outdps every hybrid out there (even the best ones, such as enhas, blood elf rets and elems), and can easily meet all the required DPS checks. Plus, if you can afford to go Arcane and have a set up made for you (1-2 spriests, 1 innervate per fight, etc.)… well, the warlocks will have their own trouble competing with your DPS. But if your guild has a normal amount of mages and warlocks (generally 2 mages and 3 warlocks), you should expect to be midpack pure DPS - kinda like Rogues in Classic Naxx.
Yeah. Hunter is really meh in pve, in vanilla (although it’s kind okish in pvp) but in tbc it’s a beast class for pve
Absolutely. Mages are not bad at all, it’s just that later on, they don’t bring anything particularly remarkable compared to locks. It’s still a good class. I also agree with the slots thingy.
Well, you’d still want at least one for Arcane Intellect (I dunno about you, but I always hated having to buff outside the raid instance, it’s just tedious), for food table, and the occasional Spellsteal fight (Reliquary of Soul and Eredar Twins say hi). I mean, if you can afford to use hunters all the way through in Vanilla you definitely won’t feel bad about Mages in TBC^^
Plus it’s not like everyone wants to play warlock. It’s op, but full destro is really boring in pve.