Delves compared to mythic plus

[Brotchen-the-venture-co]

@Tah-earthen-ring

The solo players won’t.
They’ll be left with a bad system that’s actually balanced and mechanically made for group play, but it’s being called ‘solo endgame progression’.

This is not it Blizzard. Stop catering to the wrong people.

i mean, ion is a raid player. what can you do

[Richardhuntr-silvermoon]

Delves are not solo content, they are content that can be completed solo, compare to Torghast, which was fine solo, but also fine in groups.

Please if I am wrong in this statement, demonstrate anywhere that Blizzard has said Delves are ONLY for solo players.

Further, despite my previous comments, I’m not even sure that Delves are end game, considering they end at tier 11, and people are already doing tier 7 and 8, as solo players in the first week of the season.

If we look at the largest games on the market, they are, and always have been games where your friends can come too, indeed WoW was built around this core concept in Vanilla, and remains this way today, in the same way it’s reasonable to say that most people like Pizza (I don’t but that’s because I can’t eat cheese) it’s reasonable to say most people like to include their friends in things they do, and games will cater to that.

[Emje-draenor]

@Richardhuntr-silvermoon

I am an avid raider and m+ person, so perhaps my comments on Delves aren’t particularly helpful, to me they were a route to reasonable gear

And what is wrong with avid raiders or m+ people having a route to some reasonable gear before the season? I have always said that there is no right or wrong way to play, there is only the way you personally wish to play as being the correct choice for you.

It seems that people resent each other for silly things imo, it should not and doesn’t bother me if you are gearing up ready for m+ or raids via delves, it doesn’t affect me at all and will not change how I play. So instead of m+ I would continue with Delves pushing as high as I could, I would be happy, you on the other hand I assume would leave Delves and continue your progression in m+ and raids, which would make you happy. Why can’t we all be accepting of other people’s ways of gaming, albeit different from our own, but still viable and enjoyable for the individual(s) concerned!!

@Richardhuntr-silvermoon

If people are already completing T8 and 9, and it goes no higher than 11, Blizzard should consider making more tiers, perhaps even endless tiers, so the Delves stay relevant throughout for people who enjoy them.

This, so much this

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Richardhuntr-silvermoon

Delves are not solo content, they are content that can be completed solo, compare to Torghast, which was fine solo, but also fine in groups.

Well, this is NOT fine in groups.
That option is actively harming the whole system.
So it should be removed. Blizzard wanted to make this more casual friendly by allowing players to take their friends or significant other along with them. But that’s not what’s happening. This option is being abused by the tryhards that only use it to gear up for M+ or raiding.

This is not what Delves are supposed to be. Players once again are ruining things with their over-the-top obsessive ‘take what you can get’ attitudes.

So, to fix that; make it purely solo.
Easier to balance. More clear on what kind of mechanics to include.
And no more abuse and broken balance.

@Richardhuntr-silvermoon

Further, despite my previous comments, I’m not even sure that Delves are end game, considering they end at tier 11, and people are already doing tier 7 and 8, as solo players in the first week of the season.

That is one of the issues yes.
Delves are supposed to be a new endgame pillar. That was stated by Ion himself.
So they’re failing with their intention.

[Canju-silvermoon]

@Duskey-turalyon

Someone who plays well won’t have green gear.

It’s easy to gear up so the fact they have green gear shows they won’t play well.

You’d be surprised how many people with green gear are being invited into m0 groups at the moment and failing things.

It’s why I join a group, check gear and the moment I see more than 1 green item I’m gone.

[Helvetier-silvermoon]

@Duskey-turalyon

It’s easy to gear up so the fact they have green gear shows they won’t play well.

No, if you are fully purple geared now, it shows imo that you grind a lot with little thought. In 1 week you can do M+ and you can simply have way better gear drop without this extreme grind. Sure, get to a decent ilvl, but in the end, it won’t be worth to stress out over having perfect geared week 1. I personally got to ilvl 580-590 and I will just level now, and maybe do the raid on normal, because I don’t need to burn myself out on M0, when next week I can get better gear

[Richardhuntr-silvermoon]

@Tah-earthen-ring

Well, this is NOT fine in groups.
That option is actively harming the whole system.
So it should be removed. Blizzard wanted to make this more casual friendly by allowing players to take their friends or significant other along with them. But that’s not what’s happening. This option is being abused by the tryhards that only use it to gear up for M+ or raiding.

The problem with arguments like that is where do you stop?

I did the entire campaign in a group, so that I could get 3 characters to max level very quickly. Is that “abusing the system” or is that “having fun with my friends?”

I did a few delves on my own, and a few with my girlfriend, we’re both raiders and m+ people, but these delves were to complete quests, does this make us “abusing the system” or “having fun with my partner?”

[Tah-earthen-ring]

I know; some people will suffer because of it.
But you should blame the abusers for that. Once again, people like that are harming everyone.

But in the long run, just accepting that this will be purely solo will be healthier for the system, I think. There’s loads of opportunities in the game for grouping up already.
Why couldn’t this be one of the few things that you need to do solo?

Because as it is right now; it’s not working as intended.

[Richardhuntr-silvermoon]

You haven’t answered either of my questions though, is this because they don’t help your argument?

[Richardhuntr-silvermoon]

In order to stop big bad M+ ers, using your own terms from profiting from having friends in a game that’s primarily based around social interaction, would you stop groups in:

• World Quests
• Loremaster Quests
• The campaign quests
• Torghast, Horrific visions, MoP scenarios and similar experiences.
• Premades in group finder
• premades in pvp
• premades in Delves
• premades in mythic and mythic plus
• premades in LFR
• premades in Normal, Heroic, or Mythic raids

Because all of these situations gives the group an advantage over solo players.

I can think of examples outside of wow too, for example if you are ordering a meal at a pub, having 2 people means one person can save the table for you, is this an “abuse” to gain an advantage too?

[Emje-draenor]

@Tah-earthen-ring

That option is actively harming the whole system.
So it should be removed. Blizzard wanted to make this more casual friendly by allowing players to take their friends or significant other along with them. But that’s not what’s happening. This option is being abused by the tryhards that only use it to gear up for M+ or raiding.

I don’t see a problem if people use the Delves to gear up for M+ or Raiding, why would they not? It’s just another option in game for gear.

@Tah-earthen-ring

So, to fix that; make it purely solo.
Easier to balance. More clear on what kind of mechanics to include.
And no more abuse and broken balance.

This for me is the issue, they need to balance for the number of players in the instance, rather than spoiling it for solo players. That way everyone is happy.

The Broken balance is imo the key thing that people should be concentrating on, rather than telling others this feature should not be for them, or belittling others because they play in a different way.

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Richardhuntr-silvermoon

Because all of these situations gives the group an advantage over solo players.

None of those were made SPECIFICALLY for solo endgame progression.
That’s the difference.

So your examples just don’t work.
This is something new for WoW. Actual solo endgame progression. Wow never had that. So it requires a different approach. You can’t compare it to everything that came before, because nothing is like it.

[Richardhuntr-silvermoon]

@Tah-earthen-ring

None of those were made SPECIFICALLY for solo endgame progression.

And neither were Delves.

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Richardhuntr-silvermoon

And neither were Delves.

You’re wrong.

[Richardhuntr-silvermoon]

" Delves are a solo/small-group pillar of progression introduced in The War Within ."

IE not solo.

I asked a few posts ago for evidence that they were solo only, I’m still waiting for it.

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Richardhuntr-silvermoon

IE not solo.

IT. SHOULD. BE.

That is my point.
Because this is NOT working and the solo version of this endgame is suffering because of it. That’s NOT okay, because that is once again, LIKE FRICKING ALWAYS, the solo / world content players who are being derogated.

Now; I’m done talking. I’m getting upset and I’m going to go away from this forum for a bit.

[Lilíith-draenor]

@Richardhuntr-silvermoon

You bring up an interesting point, WoW devs have stated that they are adding “ever green” features into the game, but does that mean they are “end game” features?

Delves are just one of many paths to do whatever your specific goal in the game is, if Delves no longer are a route to that objective, don’t do them.

after todays changes its dead feature so doesnt matter anymore

[Lilíith-draenor]

@Tah-earthen-ring

@Richardhuntr-silvermoon

IE not solo.

IT. SHOULD. BE.

That is my point.
Because this is NOT working and the solo version of this endgame is suffering because of it. That’s NOT okay, because that is once again, LIKE FRICKING ALWAYS, the solo / world content players who are being derogated.

Now; I’m done talking. I’m getting upset and I’m going to go away from this forum for a bit.

well you just got derogated to much lower dvleves

hope you enjoy it you worked hard to make this change yesterday

[Tah-earthen-ring]

@Lilíith-draenor

well you just got derogated to much lower dvleves

Fine with me. This is a progression system; something meant to last a while.
Not just a few days.

[Richardhuntr-silvermoon]

TBH my belief is that given the rewards, delves should be harder, we should be struggling to complete T4 right now if T11 is to last a whole season, group or solo isn’t the problem.