Right now I need to do +7 keys to get the same reward from my vault, as a tier 8 delve. The difference in difficulty between a t8 delve and even a +5 keys is astronomical right now. Delves are maybe on par with a +2 key in terms of difficulty.
So if I want to get gear, why on earth would I even set foot in an M+ dungeon now, unless I have the gear/skill to just farm +7 or higher? The only advantage lower keys have, is you don’t need coffer keys to get good end of dungeon rewards.
I assume they expected that delves 8 would be harder, but now nerfing them would create even more outrage, so they just leave them easy. over the course of the next weeks i am sure they will also nerf m+ dungeons , but considering how easy 8 delves are, they will never be on par
guess the only plus to m+ is that the loot pool from the delves isnt the best and polluted with trash trinkets?
Because T8 Delves only give two Crests. So with each upgrade need 15 Crests you can only upgrade one item once every 2-3 weeks by only doing T8 Delves. But if you time M+4 Keys you only need at maximum two Runs for upgrading a Hero Item and at worst three untimed Keys.
Compared to what level? I went into Stonevault +5 yesterday with a group of friends, all of which are easily farming T8 delves solo on different specs/classes, and that M+ was defenitely not a snoozefest. While the dungeons themselves aren’t balanced at the moment, I would put T8 delves on par with +2/+3 keystones, and like I mentioned above, the disparity in rewards are huge.
M+ is only really competitive for rewards with end of dungeon drops, where it gives better baseline loot than delves, if you run out of Coffer Keys. And of course crest/valor stone farming.
At the same time I don’t think it’s reasonable to demand that +8 keys should be easily doable with 600ilv. I think Blizzard has painted themselves into a corner here, because delves was supposed to be it’s own end game content for solo players. But how can you balance it properly when some specs can jump in at 570ilv level and crush T8, but others might struggle at 595-600? I doubt they will ever do a tuning pass for all the delves pr spec, so that just leaves certain specs/classes behind because their solo capabilities are poor.
I did a +3 yesterday and it was no difference in difficulty compared to m0. In the meanwhile I have to put way more effort into a T8 delve in the sense of having to carefully pull mobs so I don’t get absolutely annihilated. I’ve done T8 delves on a ~598 spriest and ~585 devoker and the difference between those 2 specs is already night and day.
i hardly can die at all in a delve t8 and it is just incredible boring.
+8 key isnt quite easy in ilvl 600 while delves is t8 ia already easy in ilvl 580
The comparison was T8 vs +3, regardless I’m glad you can survive in T8 delves because I’m getting trucked. At 598 vs 2 casters in one of the underwater delves killed me in 4.5s while my interrupt is 40s.
Mind control one, burst the other. You have silence, fear, fade that can bait the casts onto Brann, desperate prayer and dispersion for if a cast is going to hit you and you’re low.
You simply aren’t using the tools at your disposal and then complaining its hard.
The crests do drop from the coffers that don’t need keys to open, but it still needs to be a bountiful delve
I havn’t tested this but technically this means you should be able to farm runed crests from bountiful delves without having coffer keys
when i did couple of first m+ this season it was painfully obvious that the first hotfix / buff to dvelves was warranted and it put them on semi-equal level to m+
unfortunately blizzard backtracked on it and make dvelves total joke again .
I play with friends as well. But they are not all online at the same time most of the time. And sometimes, when they are, there is 1 that gets benched. So some pugging is necessary.
But either way. The gear discrepancy for me is a non-issue. I like dungeons… I like the adrenaline. For “chill and relax” sessions there are much better games out there than WoW with Delves. But that is my opinion.
If anything, anyone that wastes gametime in Delves instead of Dungeons will not learn them properly and their Rio will show. So the people that right now are pushing 6s, 7s, and 8s are people that actually enjoy dungeons. Not people that are there just for the gear.
yea, it´s ridiculous. If we´d get myth rewards and Aspect Crest back in +6 it would be somewhat alright with the tuning, but right now M+ is waaay to harshly tuned compared to the reward. You´re kinda expected to be ~620 to do 9+, which will take months for most people that now barely clear the entrance level and then you miss out on a lot of myth item form the vault without any catchup at all.
Just feels utterly impossible to play M+ without raiding mythic with this system, really takes the fun out of the game to a large degree as a M+ player.
Yea i also think they completely missed the mark with Delves design in general. You can´t make class agnostic content challenge everyone equally. Especially if a lot of the Challenge is White Dmg, means plate wearers kinda breeze through while a lot of others are left in the dust if it´s tuned to high.
I think they really should just start from zero there, i think Thorgast had been a much better model for solo content that scales in the end.
But i think overall they should just stop gatekeeping content with gear as much as they do. Just hand everyone at least one free mythtrack vault per week, so if people play the whole season they will be powerful enough to do everything in the end. Then tuning will still be an issue, but way less frustrating when you know eventually you´re only limited by your skill, not by your willingness to put up with content you don´t enjoy just to gear up for content you do enjoy.
To be fair, M+ used to be grossly under-tuned compared to the reward.
But you are correct. Some dungeons seem to be harder than others. Especially the bosses. And I hope blizzard will correct this mistake instead of waiting 4 months to do it…
