I didnt say anything about raider score at all. It is completely irrelevant. You didnt even say anything about M+.
You talked about leveling dungeons. And you want to ignore everything said about M+. Because it does not fit your agenda. You are clueless about the gamemode. You think normal leveling dungeons are M+, that is clear. I can’t help it that is in your piece of mind. But your piece of mind is very wrong. Factually,
That’s what i like most too, i can take things at my own pace, if something IRL comes up (Phone call, somebody at the door), i can just deal with that without leaving 4 people waiting, if i mess up a pull, nobody gets annoyed (Except maybe myself)
But the important thing is, people who feel that same way were likely never going to do M+ anyway, so there’s no real loss to the M+ crowd, i’m not seeing a big problem with “Delves spoiled players”, people who want to do M+ will still go and do it (Well, once the new season starts, anyway), and if there aren’t enough of those people, that’s hardly the fault of Delves, is it?
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Pretty much this.
I havenot done a single M+ as that kind of content doesnt appeal to me at all. And as for rest of the difficulties M+ has corrupted peoples mind so that for some reason all the group content must be completed like its a Group B rally race. Its just too annoying to deal with and has been for very long time now.
People who complain about not finding groups or tanks/healers are most likely the same people who created the problem to begin with.
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I am of course all fine with you choosing the content you enjoy. But M+ is the opposite of a rally race. It is there so when we get gear during the season we still can not zergrace the dungeon since we do a higher version of it. It means we have to take the dungeon slow instead of how it is run on for example leveling dungeons. This way dungeons stay fun and relevant for the whole season,
Unfortunately a bit of a toxic assumption of yourself. There’s like no toxicity in M+ anyway. You only hear the exxesses here on the forums. Nobody talks about the normal fun stuff on the forums since it isn’t interesting to mention.
The last 4 expansions i experienced m+ that right now i got so bored it barely gives any fun~ satisfaction .
The whole experience is kill xx xx-xx-xx as fast as you can and pick the best classes-spec to achiev this .
The toxicity is so high in m+ that we have insane numbers of topics over the year that just show the problem .
Mid- season i impossible for any new player to enter the m+ especially if he want’s to learn from the m0 … Instant kick …leave and bad behavior .
My main is 637 ilvl my alt is 628 ilvl …(same score)
Instant decline for my 628 ilvl for more than 20 ques… It’s a $~10 …
+8 or 10 you need to overgear the content by a lot and creating your own doesn’t solve anything because that’s how the game become.
How? In the last 3 weeks i started a new alt from 530 (it was already leveled in early access) and am now on max +11 with 621 gear. Yesterday i did a Mists 10 and grim batol 8 
I just do not get how people got so bad experiences. So different from mine. It is like we play a different game.
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Seeing your main i doubt you did any pug .
Same tank …same healer you …same mage …hunter …you did all the dungeon you did with the same people … c’mon mate:D
Yes this is my main. Not my now 621 alt.
All with randoms. Allthough i am someone who after running a dungeon just ask to also run the next one. So the Necrotic wake 9 is the same group as the Ara kara 11, for example.
But if you want to have a better experience you might also want to look into communities. We all can do that and have zero declines. You included.
Shoot me for having done that and made friends and run once or twice a week in a set 5 man group.
Well that is how i hear M+ stuff going on and i have never had any single interest at all even finding out if its true or not but as i constantly see complaining about leavers and all the drama i really have zero interest going into M+ and finding out as Delves to me already gear me up nicely to a point where i can do content i want without the annoyance of olden days where there was really nothing at all after doing HC dungeons.
Yeah that is the unfortunate consequence of the overall outing negativity 
It is a bit the function of the forums though. Nobody has any reason to make a topic about a normal M+ run.
As a dps i had pretty unlucky roll-ques (As Hunter 2.428 score )
Also i don’t belong to any community and just doing via Lf-ques(solo player-no guild 
) . The majority of any 10+ required already 2.6+ and they are always picky especially with dps since there are plenty that are 635 and 2.6+ score.
So in order to increase my score +farm with hunter is a pain .
If you don’t have a main to boost the know~ (main is 3k score /etc ) you won’t have the easy access especially with how m+ works…(You don’t wanna deplete a key bringing someone lower ilvl~ and perhaps someone that wanna increase his score over an elite player.
Just join one of the many. I did that too.
Okay, so, to whom ever up above told me to not leave the groups and be nice…
I will call this evening " of Desertion" because:
- last 3 dungeon groups (in a row) wiped at least once;
- 1 of those 3 groups wiped twice in a row, for same reason, because dps were running around and pulling random packs way too much the tank and I could handle;
- 4th group kicked me from The Darkness dungeon for reasons unknown and I still got debuff;
Overall, I spent 2+ hours of my only life wiping and waiting for deserter debuff to wear off.
I’m not sure I need to add even more stress in my life. You can preach to be good samaritan as much as you want, but I also have wants and needs, and if those are not satisfied (at least partially) by running groups - I aint doing it. I’ll run delves alone and save me nerves.
It’s mostly the fact that people rely on PUGs, while you don’t.
That’s something you need to take into consideration.
The game is significantly easier and more enjoyable if you have a dedicated group.
I know this because, in BFA, I had a group for M+, and I never understood why people complained about M+.
Since Shadowlands, I’ve been PUGing, and now I completely understand people’s frustration with M+.
So just example.
I’m pugging i achieved 2600 rio cleared all +10 in pug enviroment
if i had a dedicated group i would be doing 12-13 keys like it’s nothing.
That is the power of a dedicated group vs PUG
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Even running into 1 toxic person out of 20 runs is enough to make people want to avoid it.
Recently started a +6 Necrotic Wake. First pull we wipe while also having wasted Heroism. There was no toxicity, and we agreed to make smaller pulls. Ended up completing the key on time.
Some weeks ago I was in a +4 Stonevault. Literal trainwreck of a party, more than 100 deaths by the end. The tank even went afk for 20 minutes to put her baby to sleep. We still completed it (untimed of course) after 1 hour and something. Again no toxicity, friendly banter and laughs.
I have done Dawnbreakers where the tank didn’t know where to fly at any point of the instance. We still completed it by giving advice, no toxicity at all.
And then you enter a +4 Ara-kara, the tank loses aggro due to Earth Shield’s healing while going down the stairs at the start and immediately stops, he starts throwing insults about how I should not be allowed to enter M+ and then left. This 1 in 20 cases is enough for me to want to avoid pugging and preferring going with premades that I know.
I mean; i do exactly what every other player also can do. The mentioned Mists 10 and Grim batol 8 were also pugs. I just use more options.
On my paladin i have done a +2 NW and +2 siege with 2 friends and that’s it. The rest is randoms; pug or community.
You said it yourself.
You’re playing a completely different game.
People who only PUG will never understand your way of thinking, and vice versa.
I’ve been on both sides of the fence, so I get what you’re saying completely. I also get why people are frustrated with M+ pugging and why they ask for things like solo queue.
I mean; i am also pugging. I have even pugged quite a lot on my main, allthough the highest keys are done with friends. I have also a mistweaver which i runned up to +10-11’s which is 95% with randoms. When i would look at the mayority of the keys i have done, most is done with randoms. it isn’t that i do not know what pugging is or what experience it is to pug.
Tbh. You don’t even need a dedicated group(Well if you are not going for +14s and above obviosly). I have also pugged purely(not counting a random guildy run here and there but before TWW, it was pretty much 95% pugs)
There are communities(like no Pressure for example) where you just write “Hey guys, I got Mists10, anyone want to join?” and group is ready in 15 mins. Sometimes more if its not in peak times cause healers and tanks are at work/school and etc…but same problem affects pugs as well.
You don’t need to “befriend” people there if you dont want to. Just act a normal human being.
So for people who only pug and outright refuse to even give communities a shot. Wont even bother talking about making friends.
Well its a self inflicted wound and I have no sympathy if they are stubborn to use the tools provided.
Having one is like the difference between fire and water in terms of this game’s difficulty.
But I agree that people bring this on themselves.
They refuse to move out of their comfort zone and push higher, etc.
I was just saying that I understand their frustration with Mythic+ being this difficult in a PUG environment and why they ask for things like Solo Queue
or have opinions about delves soaking Mythic+ players.