Demon Hunter RP

Argent Dawn
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Greetings!
I’m more than sure, that this subject has been brought to everyone’s attention during the Legion expansion and yet, I would like to raise it again, considering that I have faced a rather curious situation last night.

What we basically have now, are two generations of Demon Hunters. OOCly speaking, that is.

New Demon hunters - the one that were introduced with the Legion expansion and have received an official lore of their whatabouts. Trained in Black Temple, became Illidari, survived Maiev one way or another now are associated with Fel Hammer and so on. Completely OKAY considering that many DHs RP more or less around that.

Old Demon hunters - the one that were RPing way before Legion was even on the horizon. During that time, not that much information has been available to RPers and one of the options to build your character upon the pillars of knowledge, was Raptor13 website with a lot of more in-depth information regarding DHs. Be it official or not.

My own character is from the Old DH. In short, my rogue once met a DH Player and after year of RP, she became a DH herself. Our mentorship RP was heavily based exactly on Raptor13 information. With the specific type of markings the one applies during a trial, so on.

Last night, I was tinkering myself with a thought of joining a DH-oriented guild and during a conversation, our vision upon DHs was… quite different. The guild follows only official lore and apparently, accepts only Illidari DHs.

However, because my DH has been trained outside of Black Temple and is not associated with Fel Hammer, not to mention that the entire story&RP was based on an unofficial lore… I wonder.
How one does represent itself today then? Will the others ignore my character merely because of that, does one has to change the entire RP experience in one go, merely because big blue boys gave an official lore? Are there others DHs that still follow the “old ways” ?

I would very much like to learn your opinion regarding this, and if you have questions, I’m more than happy to answer or elaborate!

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On the one hand, if they want to stick to the book, then that is their choice and it should be respected
on the other hand, it is a logical leap to assume a DH (illidari or otherwise) is able to train someone else to become a DH, unless there is a very specific thing only Illidari have that is needed ofc.
on the third hand, Roleplay is best when you strike a balance. Sticking to lore as if is the law and anything not part of the lore as if non-existing will only lead to a wild inconstant place, while taking logical leaps and reasonable assumptions can help support the written lore where it is lacking.

For instance, NO ONE knows how healing is actually supposed to work and therefore we gone way and beyond to explain it with our own ideas based on logical conclusions which has been formed by real life experience and whatever lore we have been able to scavenge.

the lore is inconstant, blood mages didn’t openly exist until cataclysm where they magically appeared in the blasted lands as fully grown adults and experts in their field, which logically would imply that they existed before cataclysm but we had no knowledge of their existence, so if you hard on follow lore, they most have willed themselves into reality, and that is just silly.

in short, NO
If you feel good about the story you created with your character, then stick to it
but not everyone have been exposed to your characters growth, and they will dismiss the work you have put into the characters story. Respect that and find someone else, we all have different views on the lore and how to roleplay, and it is better to find players whos vision is closer to your own.
I do not promote safe-spaces or bubble rp, but some differing opinions are to far apart to mingle.

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As I recall we have canonical Demon Hunters who precede the formation of the Illidari, so I don’t see why that in itself would be a problem.

Current Demon Hunters could also train new ones if they so pleased, and their current allegiances are sort of unclear with the Blood War raging on.

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To be very frank, yes. Lemon Hunters already have a bad enough rep as it is as far as RP goes, so naturally people will be rather wary of anything that doesn’t follow the official, most recent lore.

This is simply the ‘danger’, or risk rather, of RPing something before the official in-depth lore really rolls out. Not to say that you shouldn’t have done it, whatever floats your boat, but now a norm has been established by Blizzard and people expect said norm to be followed.

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Kek in ten characters

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That Lemon Hunter of yours sounds rather funny, I admit it.
Still, what strikes me most, is how some guilds (I won’t give names for obvious reasons) state: We accept only official lore and not fan cannon ones.
Which basically means: Scratch all those years of RP in a favor to follow today’s trend.

What I’d like to see it myself, though, is that in general community has to understand that there can be basically two types of Demon Hunters. The Illidari, who were trained in Black Temple and follow the official lore AND Demon Hunters that were trained by other Demon Hunters before and after Legion expansion, based on fan canon and official lore.

For example, the fan cannon I refer to (raptor13) is in my opinion does not contradict with the official lore. It supplements with a more in-depth knowledge of being or becoming a DH. The rituals one has to undergo. Type of markings with different meanings (Calm, Unity, etc). So in short, you take Official lore and expand it with unofficial cannon.

But yes, I guess in the end: to each his own.

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Which is why people probably have problems with it, it isn’t official nor canon.

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As long as it doesn’t break the lore itself. I would understand if it was something like… “Incognito DH who went against Illidan himself, obtained new ways of power via demonology or scourge to become even more powerful than usual Illidari” YEAH. That would be a thing, a rather problematic one. But… it’s not the case now :slight_smile:

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I mean, it’s not Bad to have DHs who are trained outside of the Black Temple roaming around, you have Illysana or whatever her name is in Blackrook Hold who became a demon hunter without intervention from the Black Temple or anything alike (mainly because it was during WotA)

Though a lot of old DH stuff is based on headcanon afaik and kind of iffy when trying to rp it, but I personally don’t mind people rping DHs who had become DHs outside of the Black Temple, might make some interesting rp :woman_shrugging:

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There’s a Demon hunter, Loramus Thalipedes, that has been in-game since Vanilla.

There are a few demon hunters trained by Illidan pre-Black Temple and before he went to Outland, however it is unknown when exactly he did it.

There were no blood elf DHs, though, pre-Black Temple, as those were sent by Kael’thas.

But someone trained by a different demon hunter after Legion is very much possible. Or after the Black Temple stuff, as we don’t know if every single demon hunter was captured/killed by Maiev.

Vandel (I think his name was?) wasn’t captured.

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I’m on phone so I can’t quote so I’ll use bullet points:

  1. I forgot about him lmao, probably became a DH the same way Ilysanna did

  2. Probably sometime during the WotA; I believe that to be the more common time to want to become a DH, but I could be wrong

  3. Yes, and no. There’s no Belf DHs pre-BT (and as a result of Chronicles 3 I don’t think Kael’thas sent them as gifts to Illidan, but it’s been a while since I’ve read the book). Just because there’s no reference of belf DHs pre-BT doesn’t mean it’s not possible for a belf to meet a DH and be trained. It’s not written in the lore, though I don’t see why it’s not possible.

  4. I imagine there were several (including Vandel) who weren’t captured. Which leads me to the previous point.

Edit: the only thing I’d say is pretty eh in terms of the OP is how they became a DH as everyone who rpd a DH pre-Legion had some ritual I believe which is completely different to how it is known to happen as a result of the Illidan book.

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Being someone who played a Demon Hunter prior to Legion, my stance is that any Demon Hunter who wasn’t in the Black Temple; has a lesser ritual when becoming a DH. As you’re effectively a ‘DIY Demon Hunter’ for Kaldorei there has been a precedent set for Demon Hunter who followed in Illidan’s footsteps. You could consider these the first generation of Demon Hunter, similar to Death Knights, however, they will ultimately be lesser to the Illidari in terms of being Demon Hunters. I tend to RP my character with a host of negative side effects, due to him being a Demon Hunter outside of the Illidari’s instruction. This helps to balance the natural expertise and experience, you’d probably have over most Illidari. Also, acknowledging at best as a Pre-Illidari you are poor man’s attempt at a Demon Hunter.

That’s at least my opinion on such.

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I mean, it’s not Bad to have DHs who are trained outside of the Black Temple roaming around, you have Illysana or whatever her name is in Blackrook Hold who became a demon hunter without intervention from the Black Temple or anything alike (mainly because it was during WotA)

She’s at least also trained by Illidan and called for others to follower her, too, judging by ´https://wow.gamepedia.com/Hastily-Scrawled_Page`

I go now to find him, to walk in his footsteps and learn what I can about our enemy. Where this path will lead, I do not know. But I will do whatever I must to avenge my father and save our race from extinction.

If you wish to do the same, come find me.

-[Illysanna Ravencrest]

We’ve no idea when Illidan really squeezed that in, though.

Next to Loramus Thalipedes as someone else mentioned before, there is also the DH spirit below Darkshore who was killed by Maiev many years ago. We don’t know anything about him either and if Illidan was the one who trained him.

In conclusion, we know there’s been a DH here and there roaming about pre-Black Temple, but there’s more or less no lore on them, so it is fairly hard to RP them well imo without supplementing too much headcanon.

Still, what strikes me most, is how some guilds (I won’t give names for obvious reasons) state: We accept only official lore and not fan cannon ones.

For example, the fan cannon I refer to (raptor13) is in my opinion does not contradict with the official lore. It supplements with a more in-depth knowledge of being or becoming a DH. The rituals one has to undergo. Type of markings with different meanings (Calm, Unity, etc). So in short, you take Official lore and expand it with unofficial cannon.

I can completely understand why that particular guild preferred not to recruit you. I think you’ve supplemented a tad too much headcanon lore into the creation of your character with which people can feel uncomfortable with.

Besides, she isn’t an Illidari and it’s a perfectly reasonable IC motivation to decline any DH not among them from joining that particular group guild. Unknown loyalties etc. etc.

What we basically have now, are two generations of Demon Hunters. OOCly speaking, that is.

Also, new Demon Hunters are trained aboard the Fel Hammer during Legion, so technically there’s three generations of DHs now.

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Not at all. Headcanon served as an in-depth during my character RP of becoming a DH. It still is based upon the lore that was known before Legion expansion. For example, we all know that a DH has to undergo three trials: Blinding, Binding and Marking.
What does not official lore covers, is the types of markings, whilst the headcanon does: Calm, Control, Dissonance, Rage, Shadow and Unity. And to give an example of one:

Blockquote These markings calm the demon hunter, making him appear more composed–almost emotionless. They are very faint, some claim they are invisible at times. Others claim they are indiscernable from scarring. However, the longer they are on the hunter, the more visible they become. They appear as curved lines that snake around the demon hunter’s torso.

This is useful for hunters who have been able to achieve control over their demon, but whose personality has become more aggressive after the binding. These marks subdue the demon’s influence over the hunter, but also subdue the true personality as well.

And yet an example written above, apparently isn’t a welcomed one. Which caused a lot of questions for myself as well as served as a motivation to write a thread here in hope to learn others’ opinion and use it to expand my own knowledge.

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I’m not really sure I see the issue in people preferring canon over fanon, here.

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What does not official lore covers, is the types of markings, whilst the headcanon does

That’s sadly not true. There are quests on their purpose and how it is done in the Illidan novel, for example:

`https://wow.gamepedia.com/Opposites_Repel´

Fel energy is counteracted by arcane energy. We mark our bodies with arcane runes to keep our fel forces in check.

Of course we don’t know what each form stands for or means.

Regardless, the point I was trying to make is that some of the stuff of the guide you used just goes a bit too far for some people to be comfortable with. That’s all.

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with opposite forces of nature.

That looks more like a hint, but no more no less. Still, I managed to miss or even forget that quest.

But yes, you are correct… Some parts of the guide goes outside the comfortable frame. I must confess, it upsets me in a way. On the other hand, tells me that it’s best to carry on by myself and only look out for those, who are understandable or comfortable with such. :upside_down_face:

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Do you have any official lore on any non-Illidari trained DHs? The only one that comes to my mind is Telarius Voidstrider (where we don’t really know if he was or wasn’t trained by him). I’m curious if you have anything on it because I haven’t heard of that stuff before. Especially in regards to all the details like the lesser ritual etc.

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Are not the rituals are all the same? I hardly can see myself how of a lesser they can be. Fail any of them and you won’t become a DH, more over, fail one of them and it’ll be a death sentence instantly.
All the preparations for each trial/ritual are to be prepared with outmost care and precision. So, please forgive me, but I cannot see how any lesser they can be. If you know more of that, please share, I am intrigued.

Also. Wouldn’t it be the same with the Illidari? An Illidari can take a person for his training to become a DH and mentor said person. This should be possible to do without Black Temple involved. Yet… how different it can be from what you have stated?

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Just don’t walk around Goldshire claiming to be someone’s ‘pet Illidari’. You will make poor Mr Stormrage angry.