Unlike every single other melee.
4 Likes
Usually melees have a way to break roots, dh doesn’t have that, so they are very weak against that.
Don’t get me wrong, they are strong, but i would rather have all classes being just as strong rather than nerfing dh.
Irrelevant in Arena. Their healers will.
It’s still a weakness though, it’s not irrelevant.
i always found that frost mage is the hardest counter against a dh personally, the slows, high intermittent burst, freeze etc makes it a particularly hard spec to play against.
It’s irrelevant in the one format PvP is balanced around, so yes, it’s very much irrelevant.
2 Likes
The issue here is the synergy between a set of abilities and talents that in themselves are not OP, but combined are just insanely OP for PvP.
2 example builds could be:
Anti-caster: Eye of Leotheras, Mana Break and Reverse Magic are 100% made to kill caster, plus Demonic Wards gives 10% less magic damage taken, and to add injury to insult, DHs very high uptime due to extremely high movement speed. Thats 1 DH that no caster can do anything against.
General survivability: Metamophosis together with Demonic, Demonic Origins and Soul Rending = 20% base leech, 2 minute meta with 60% leech, and 8 seconds meta uptime after every eyebeam (30sec cd). This means that the uptime on meta, and so 60% leech, is really high; and seeing as DH damage is really good, 60% leech is a lot of healing. And so they can survive a lot of damage and do a lot of damage at the same time. And so this build has no real weakness at all.
And to add to that, this misconception:
Ever heard of Vengeful Retreat? Plus their massive base movement speed? You know, that thing that the DHs base class design is build around?
No, they are not “weak” against roots and slows; they laugh at them.
And so on top of all that powerfull synergy, DHs are so mobile that if they do ever get in trouble, they will simply run away with ease.
So DHs can make a few builds that has such synergy against certain enemy types, that they are against that type, OP as can be. And we have seen this stinker of a class design back during WotLK with that other “hero class”, the DK. Wich had also had the tools to kill melee, caster or being a generalist; and they were nerfed back to the ground the following expansion.
So I kinda expect the devs to do the same for DHs; in any form of class balancing, DH builds in current form are plain OP.
1 Like
Oh damn, you are actually correct vengeful retreat does break snares.
I don’t know if i never noticed or never done it, because in legion i played dh quite a bit.
But with all the evidence, yes, dh is quite strong and doesn’t really have a weakness.
Still, i would rather blizzard take dh as an example, rather than nerfed, the resource generation on interrupt is also really cool, it promotes actually interrupting spells, which is a good thing, and get rewarded for it.
About the dk point, i’m pretty sure they were nerfed pretty much in the same expansion, so if they did not nerf dh up to this point i doubt it will happen in shadowlands, a lot of time has passed at this point.
1 Like
Its more the idea that DHs just like DKs back during WotLK need a real focus on what they are good at.
Are they caster killers?
Are they high survival?
Are they generalists who have either/or; and being good at 1 thing will mean bad at the other and vice versa?
At the moment you see a DH and can not even tell wether they are Havoc or Vengeance, let alone wether they are build to kill a caster or a melee.
Meanwhile if you for instance see a Warlock with a Felguard and a set of Imps you know they are Demo; if you see a Mage with a big flaming shield you know they are Fire… And with that, you know what that player has in terms of skills and weaknessess; for DH this does not apply in any shape or form. And that is really bad for gameplay balance.
1 Like
The problem is we only have 1 dps spec. We have to be either good at everything, or we’ll suck, and be forced to reroll.
As i said before, i think all classes should have comparable toolkit and damage, but different, in a sense that they do different things to maintain some form of diversity of gameplay.
Dh focuses on agility, vertical and horizontal movement, monk has very good horizontal movement, the best, dk should focus on not being able to be slowed much, etc…
That’s how i would like to see them treated rather than dh too strong nerf. I think it would feel way better to have every spec feel really strong rather than being equal in mediocrity. That doesn’t mean that you have to sacrifice gameplay.
Oh it’s this thread again 
No it’s not
And rogues have the best stealth in the game, your point?
So do monks.
No active self healing
Melee wearing leather, kinda mandatory to have something of a defensive yes.
No? Blade dance and eye beam are not a single target ability.
That says more about the poor balancing of visions
Don’t care about PvP, so I don’t care how they balance PvP only aspects. DH can spec into strong self sustain, true. Which is one of the aspects I really like about it, don’t have to rely on others, which fits their lore.
Elitist min-maxing. There are on average 20 players in a raid, I’m pretty sure this won’t be just 15 DH.
DH are melee, and leather. DH have either very low cooldown (normal rotation), or very high cooldown (5m on meta). Root or slow a DH and they can’t do much.
Every class has a weakness.
Not going to happen.
Play demonic appetite
Let’s see… Leech: 0%… What are you talking about? Do you even know anything about DH?
Again, DH don’t have leech by default.
Maybe instead of calling people ‘defenders’, you should do some research into the actual class. Just like 95% of the DH complain posts, you know hardly anything about DH.
2 Likes
I remember some dude soloed heroic garothi and upload a video on youtube with aff lock.
For the rest , i also don’t like how they gutted the spec during during bfa. I want my old legion abilities back , atm there is only 1 viable spec for dh unlike legion ( even throw glaive was a thing in raid enviorment). They pretty much messed up with our talent rows and we end up having a single build that works others are kinda garbage.
Tell me, is any other DPS spec as good at everything as havoc?
I mean, I can not think of any spec being so powerfull at AoE, ST, Selfhealing, CC and mobility as a DH is. Each other spec has some trade-offs.
And if anything, DH require a clear focus of what they are.
And adding a third spec, with between Havoc and that, a clearly different set of skills would be IMO the best way.
For instance Havoc could be high survival, ST, good vs melee, while this new spec focusses around high AoE and good anti-caster.
ATM its the best of both worlds and could really need a better balance.
4 Likes
outlaw meme exists
2 Likes
I can do it on my warrior, and if lucky, on this Feral, DH absolutely have no problems even soloing invasion rares due to their insane dmg and leech.
Also, compared to other classes it is a 2 button spec, rotation is pressing blade dance then spam Chaos strike after chaos strike. Sometimes hitting Eyebeam.
1 Like
calling something a 2 button spec is so 2019. Best build is 5 button rotation, 1 more than my survival hunter. Play some DH before you talk poo about it 
1 Like
I have, you mash 2 buttons with no rotation to speak of.
Then you clearly don’t play DH, because Demon Bite, Chaos strike, blade dance, immolation aura and eye beam are all in my rotation.
1 Like
Oh wow, so hard, pressing things that give you Fury insanely quickly then smashing 2 buttons to spend it is so hard.
DH does is insanely low risk and Maximum reward. They are way too overtuned, same as Outlaw.
I just told you the skills, I guess reading skills not included here?