Demon Hunters and their place among the Kaldorei (Lore and Roleplay Discussion)

Argent Dawn
1

This discussion is not intended to target players specifically, nor to insult or disrespect everyone’s choices and freedoms to RP what they desire. I open this topic with the aim of simply discussing the Lore of Warcraft which excites us all and therefore we each have our own interpretations. And Roleplay that we all practice in our own way and according to our desires.

For the context that made me want to discuss this question of the place of Demon Hunters among the Kaldorei, you should know that ironically my two favorite RPs are Orc and Kaldorei. So sometimes I take out an alt to do Kaldorei RP from time to time in Ashenvale or Feralas.

Lately, I’ve noticed a remarkable Demon Hunter presence in Astranaar. Not being from AD originally, and being rather recent on the server, I was very surprised to see this presence in Ashenval. And naturally, I wanted to know what the Roleplay players thought of the Demon Hunters among the Kaldorei !

Demon Hunters, the Burning Corruption

Demon Hunters have been one of my favorite classes ever since they were introduced in W3 with Illidan! I didn’t wait for Legion to RP with Demon Hunters, whether in NPC for events or otherwise. It’s a lore that I know well, I think I’ve read all about them and I still have a great affection for the Demon Hunters.

But what is a Demon Hunter? I would only address the Demon Hunter Kaldorei.

There are two true Demon Hunter archetypes among the Kaldorei: The Avenger and the Corrupt.

The Avenger is a Kaldorei who after the terrible War of the Ancients wanted revenge against the demons and the Burning Legion. Perhaps they were convinced that neither Elune nor Nature were strong enough to defeat this enemy. That his people were cowards, preferring to stay hidden rather than face the Burning Legion head-on. Or because he had no talent in Druidry or Priesthood and was looking for a weapon to exact his revenge. Bref ! The reasons are many. But the will is the same: Revenge, whatever the cost.

There are two generations of Demon Hunters who are “Avengers” : Those before the Illidari and those from the Illidari. The former followed a similar path to Illidan. They have learned to use the chaotic demon energies for their own power and will. They are taught how to use fel flames, suck souls, mana. And they combined these powers with elite martial techniques. In a way, it’s a cross between Warlock and Rogue/Warrior. They also began to absorb corruption to increase their power. Gradually losing their Kaldorei nature to a more demonic nature.

The second generation of Demon Hunters is the Illidari which is very different.
If the first generation that was the oldest was specific to the Kaldorei. The second generation was gathered both from Kaldorei by Illidan and from Sin’dorei who had followed Kael’Thas to Illidan. Illidan was aware that time was an important resource in defeating the Burning Legion. So there was no longer any question of waiting centuries for Kaldorei and Sin’dorei to grow stronger slowly and painstakingly like the ancient Demon Hunters. It needed a faster and more brutal passage.

This is where the ritual that transforms the Kaldorei or Sin’Dorei into a Demon Hunter comes in. They gouge out their own eyes and absorb the soul of a powerful demon. They must then fight against the spirit of the demon to keep possession of their bodies. If they succeed, they become Demon Hunters. If they fail, they are executed by the other Illidari.

A faster but more brutal method. With a high failure rate according to the Roman on Illidan. And a greater instability in these Demon Hunters than those of the older generation who took longer to master the demonic energies and who do not necessarily have a demonic soul or several in them. Although it happens often. Nothing like a demon to be stronger.

This instability is evident across Legion, both in expansion quests and class hall quests. Worse ! The more a Demon Hunter kills and absorbs demonic souls and demonic energies, the more difficult is the task of remaining in control of his thoughts and controlling himself.

Demon Hunters are suspicious of themselves. They watch each other. And they are aware of themselves that they are a permanent threat that can lose control of their inner demons and destroy everything.

But there is a point between the old generation and the new : These Kaldorei have agreed to sacrifice everything for their revenge. By this, they accepted that they would never again be Kaldorei. That they would be half-demons. And that they would never have a place among their own again.

This decision makes the Demon Hunter. Because it is this determination that makes the strength of their revenge and that allows them to control their inner demons.

We also see in the legions quests that most Demon Hunters who give in to their inner demons are those who are consumed by the anger of rejection by their people. Those who do not have the mental strength, nor the determination, to assume their decision.

The Corrupted is a Kaldorei or Sin’dorei who didn’t just choose this path for revenge. But above all and above all for power. He became a Demon Hunter to harness a power that would allow him to crush his enemies and achieve his goals.

I won’t talk about them more than that because they are mostly visible as NPCs and quickly in games. But because of their ambition for power and domination, they often end up as threats to Azeroth. And their fate is tragic. They become real demons in the majority of cases. In others, they realize their mistake too late and are damned.

Interestingly, Illidan is the perfect symbiosis of the Avenger and Corrupted stereotype. It is moreover an internal struggle in him. And it’s his love for Tyrande that truly keeps him from giving in to the corrupt side. But Illidan is cool.

The Demon Hunter among the Kaldorei

Now that I’ve mentioned the Demon Hunters, what is their place among the Kaldorei?

In the past, it was without discussion. A Demon Hunter was a Kaldorei who did not follow the laws of Malfurion and Tyrande. Worse still, he used the energies of the fel. And he defiled by his presence the forests around him. And his quest for power, like revenge, attracted demons and was therefore a threat to Azeroth.

So no discussion. Demon Hunters were banished from the Kaldorei lands. And if a demon hunter dared to return there, he was captured and locked in a vault. Or he was executed.

But times have changed! Since that time, the Third War has unfolded with its consequences. The Kaldorei have joined the Alliance. Faced with hardships, the Kaldorei have lost a lot of their superb and their power before. They were also influenced by the Alliance.

Legion was also an important moment. The Illidari have proven that their cause was just and above all it worked. Illidan has proven himself to be more than a power-seeking madman. But that he was simply ready to do anything to put an end to the Burning Legion for good.

Through Legion, the Demon Hunters have proven that they are not demons. But that they still had souls, emotions, reason. That they could fight for a just cause, even if driven by vengeance and ready to sacrifice everything to achieve it. As such, they are now tolerated by most peoples of Azeroth and by Factions.

But unsuspecting ? No. As I said before, the Illidari are the first to distrust themselves. They are constantly watching each other. And they know very well that a Demon Hunter is unstable. That he struggles every moment to keep control of the demonic energies that have corrupted him and his inner demons.

Let’s also add that contrary to the gameplay. Demon Hunters have never been part of the factions. Both the Alliance and the Horde have agreed to work together with the Illidari. The Illidari have thus come to the Factions to advise them against the Demons because they know the Demons better than anyone.

But they never swore allegiance to the Factions. And neither the Alliance nor the Horde have ever invited demon hunters to join their ranks.

We can even say that from the beginning, both the Alliance and the Horde show their reluctance to accept this common cause. And that without Khadgar and Maiev, this would not have been possible.

Unfortunately at the end of Legion, Blizzard never said what happened to the Illidari. And it is therefore free of interpretation for everyone. The only thing known is that by bringing Illidan’s Memory Stone to Tyrande and Malfurion. The two say they understand Illidan’s decision but they don’t forgive him. And they don’t accept it.

That Illidan made his choices knowing the consequences. But that his choices have jeopardized the survival of the Kaldorei. And that he has committed atrocities beyond redemption in their eyes.

We are free of interpretation at this time. Is the vision of Tyrande and Malfurion the vision of all Kaldorei? Surely not. There are many examples of Kaldorei not thinking like Malfurion and Tyrande from the start of Warcraft.

But as far as I’m concerned, I think the majority agrees with this vision at the end of Legion. The Demon Hunters certainly acted to defeat the Burning Legion. They certainly allowed a victory against the Burning Legion. But at what cost ? They provoked a terrible war. They caused the deaths of countless innocent people and warriors. Because they were impatient. Because they were consumed by revenge. And their victory cannot wash away their horrors to get it. In a way, they are closer to the Forsaken than to their own people. “Victory, at any cost.”

And after BFA ?

Now we come to a more interesting context. Does their situation change with BFA? As well as the gaze of the Kaldorei on them?

BFA was a turning point for the Kaldorei and a similar tragedy for them at the Great Fracture. Because of the Horde, the Kaldorei lost Teldrassil as their home. Darkshore was conquered and ravaged. Ashenvale was also sacked by the Horde. The Kaldorei have lost thousands of their kind.

At the end of BFA, the Kaldorei are on their knees. Half of their people are dead. Another part now lives on the streets of Stormwind. And the other part tries to repair the ravages of the Horde and rebuild a home under the branches of the World Tree.

After such an ordeal, one can easily say that the Kaldorei question the decisions of Tyrande and Malfurion. Haven’t they failed to protect their people and their home after all? What are the druids and priestesses doing to prevent this tragedy from happening? Where were they? And if they had accepted the Demon Hunters, couldn’t they have avoided this?

Blizzard doesn’t say anything unfortunately. And we don’t see any demon hunter intervention among the Kaldorei during BFA or Darkshore. Once again, everyone is free to interpret!

I would conclude this part with Shadowland and Dragonflight. So far, with Shadowland, we’ve seen Tyrande and Malfurion have very little presence for their people at this difficult time. Tyrande chased Sylvanas, disappearing. And Malfurion was trying to resonate it instead of caring about his people. Even worse ! The Alliance wants to impose peace with the Horde. And the Kaldorei want revenge.

What support the feeling of abandonment by their Kaldorei guides ? As well as by the Alliance? Maybe. Again, it’s open to interpretation. And that offers many food for thought for the RP. It is therefore unknown if the situation of Demon Hunters among the Kaldorei has changed or if it has not changed.

The place of Demon Hunters among the Kaldorei and their acceptance:

I didn’t think there would be so much to say. I try however to synthesize. But the Demon Hunters are very interesting, as much as the Kaldorei.

Anyway! This part therefore concerns my vision on the place of Demon Hunters among the Kaldorei today. In conclusion of the information that I detailed above.

In my eyes, the Kaldorei are a very old and very traditional people. They are also very proud, arrogant and stubborn. It is not a people who easily change their state of mind, nor their way of doing things. And who possess an almost supernatural devotion to Malfurion and Tyrande. To the point that even though Malfurion and Tyrande are technically only “Guides” and not “Rulers”, the Kaldorei blindly obey them.

Also for the Kaldorei, their hearths are not just their home. But their forests are sacred territory. They live there but they are its guardians above all. Guardians of lands sacred to Nature. They are the protectors of nature and its purity.

So to me, the Kaldorei would never accept the presence of Demon Hunters among their forests like Ashenval, Hyjal, Darkshore or Feralas. This reason would not be because of hatred or contempt but by rationality:

  • The Kaldorei love wild and pure nature. They want to protect this nature.
  • Demon Hunters are inhabited by the energies of the fel and the souls of demons. They are sources of pure corruption. They derive their own power from it. And this corruption even mutated their appearance.
  • Demon Hunters draw demons and fel energies to them. They are therefore a threat to the purity of the Forests.
  • For the sake of the forests, they must therefore stay away.

The Kaldorei would not tolerate their presence also for more cultural reasons related to distrust :

  • Demon Hunters are unstable. They can succumb at any moment to their corruption, demonic energies and inner demons. They are time bombs. If a single Demon Hunter yields, it can cause death and defile a portion of the forest. He is therefore a threat.
  • Demon Hunters embody everything the Kaldorei hate: Selfishness, blind revenge, instability, demonic nature, corruption.
  • Demon Hunters are the opposite of what the Kaldorei love and revere: Nature and Elune. They are rejected. And their presence in a place sacred to Nature or Elune would be an insult to them.

Finally there are the reasons related to the stubborn nature of the Kaldorei who do not like change:

  • The Kaldorei have lived according to the same culture and habit for 10,000 years. This nature is inscribed in them, in their mentality. And with it, the hatred of anything related to demonic energies.
  • Distrust of manipulators of demonic energies related to Satyrs, Warlocks and Demons.
  • Felwood that reminds the Kaldorei that a single blemish can doom nature for decades.
  • The Kaldorei had a hard time tolerating the return of mages among them. So much so that there almost was a civil war early on between Malfurion and Maiev. Without the Alliance, and Varian’s support, the Civil War would surely have occurred. And the acceptance of mages into Kaldorei society will have taken years and remains a tense topic for the Kaldorei.
  • Tyrande proves that the issue of the use of magic is a sensitive subject with Suramar. It requires the Shal’dorei to stop using the arcane, to agree to live like the Kaldorei where they will be considered enemies.
  • The Kaldorei are regularly in conflict with the decisions of the Alliance. And they show a fierce attitude to changing their ways to suit the Alliance and its decisions.

In addition to these main points, in my eyes the Illidari have never joined the Alliance or the Horde. So after Legion, they remained independent in the manner of the Death Knights. So even the Alliance couldn’t have ordered the Kaldorei to accept their presence back into their sacred forests.

To conclude on my vision and answer to the question. So I would say the difference is too big between a Demon Hunter and the Kaldorei. They don’t worship the same things and don’t stand for the same things. And unfortunately the mere presence of a Demon Hunter corrupts nature, defiles it and angers it. Even the slightest defilement angers the Kaldorei. Add to that the psychological instability of a Demon Hunter who is a real threat.

But I also think that after the hardships endured. The Kaldorei have learned to tolerate the existence of Demon Hunters as long as they remain outside their sacred forests. Let them now agree to cooperate with them against a common threat. And that they can even discuss between former relatives.

Finally, as long as the Demon Hunters remain discreet or far from their sacred forests, the Kaldorei will not show any particular hostility towards them.

To conclude !

This is my own view. And it is very free of interpretation for the players. I think it very easily makes it possible to justify a greater tolerance towards Demon Hunters as the reverse.

I don’t think everyone shares it either. And I don’t want the purpose of this discussion to be to ban Demon Hunter players from Ashenvale as well. :+1:

It’s hard to play Demon Hunter well! Or finding RP with such a particular class. So I can understand the gaps of the players. And the tolerance of others.

I hope the subject was not too long and indigestible! And that my level of English will not be a problem for his understanding and reading. Thank you for reading it to the end and looking forward to seeing your opinions and answers to the question of the Demon Hunters’ place among the Kaldorei today. :grinning:

5 Likes
2

This was an enjoyable read, worthy of turning it into a Demon Hunter guide.

From my experience, people playing Illidari are doing good until they meet that player character demon they can’t kill. From there it’s all downhill, they look like they are useless and it demotivates the player. As they still like their Illidari character, they just turn to more casual RP (romance with nelf or demon), play an alt or quit.

I played with about 30-40 different Illidari over the last three years, so it’s a decent sample size.

4 Likes
3

Don’t forget the alternative which is the menagerie of Eredar, Succubus and Demonically Possessed Human/Draenei/Nelf role-players who have an Illidari tramp sta~ I mean runic fel tattoo, marking them as safe/friendly/shouldn’t be attacked IC because they are owned by Demon Hunters that totally only enslaved them for practical Illidari demon hunting purposes.

Derailment aside, good post Mork! As far as I know Blizzard has been notoriously quiet regarding DHs post-Legion. The status quo we had prior to Legion (DHs being shunned, evil and exiled) is obviously gone, but I don’t recall instances in canon lore of DHs who left the Illidari being reintegrated into Kaldorei society. Come to think of it we have next to nil lore on the Illidari in general beyond a random Demon rare in Zuldazar post-Legion.

If we are lucky we might get some footnote or mention (along with the status of Night Elf Dark Rangers) in the new Night Elf heritage quest and potentially the Eredar questchain (as we’d get a hint of what the Legion is actually doing which ties into the purpose of the Illidari as an order), but other than that it’s just headcanon and guesswork.

3 Likes
4

A very detailed post!

Personally, I’d like to think that that a lot of the active night elf roleplayers who are interested in the race’s lore, don’t assume it normal for demon hunters to loiter casually in kaldorei settlements. Since Ashenvale and especially Astranaar has seen a rise in activity in recent months, it becomes similar to hubs like Stormwind and Duskwood, where individuals just seek easy access to roleplay interactions regardless of if their character is a good fit for the place from canon lore point of view. This probably happens every time a location becomes an active roleplay hub, leading to people start speaking poorly about said hub, which leads to some players leaving to avoid a stigma attached to the place. We’ll see how long the activity remains strong for Ashenvale before things get quieter again.

As for other characters tolerating their presence, I think many players just don’t want to cause too much confrontation to avoid OOC headache that might come from it. Some players instead opt to just downplay the presence of certain characters to protect their own immersion, rather than have their character actively work against them. Admittedly I tend to do that, to focus my roleplay on other things than confronting peculiar figures.

There’s an illidari guild that uses the demon hunter camp in Aszuna as their base of operations, and generally embrace the outcast fantasy of the class, kudos to them for that!

10 Likes
5

I think you should include the Moon Warrior ritual among the lore you listed as that seems at least tangentially related to the outcast nature of demon hunters and would probably raise an eyebrow or two (“if Tyrande’s army can perform an old, incredibly dangerous and ingergalactic ritual to gain godly powers for the protection of our homeland then why can’t I?”).

1 Like
6

It can be interesting and an interpretation too. But I think it’s very different.

The Dark Moon is a facet of the Goddess Elune who has been known to the Kaldorei since time immemorial. There is nothing ominous behind the Black Moon, nor malicious. There is also no corruption effect on nature. It is a power offered by the Goddess to avenge her children.

It is therefore in osmosis with the religion of the Kaldorei and their veneration of Elune. And it’s a temporary blessing too. It is granted for a time and then it is withdrawn by the Goddess. There is nothing definitive behind it. As unfortunately can be the choice of a Demon Hunter.

7

An interesting post!

Personally, I am of the opinion that the Illidari have bought themselves tolerance. Not acceptance.

While it can be discussed how well informed your average Kaldorei would be on such matters, most with any experience from the events of Legion will almost certainly know of the Illidari - and on which side they fought. We need only look to Tyrande to understand that to the night elves, actions weigh far more heavily than words. In this regard the Demon Hunters have proven where their interests lie, which would reasonably afford them some (perhaps begrudging) respect and tolerance.

They still stand as something wholly antithetic to most of what the Kaldorei revere and embody however, and such a thing is not undone so easily. Nor have I personally seen any Illidari try to mend ties by adopting to a more moderate use of fel etc. They are what they are, and frankly, I think that certainty is required in order not to go incurably insane and snap. Which brings us to another enduring factor:

Exactly. A Demon Hunter with a hundred successful hunts behind them require just one bad day, one suitably desperate or enraging moment, and they’re off the deep end. Part of the problem they swore to rise up against.

Anyone aware of this would reasonably lean towards distrust. It needn’t be a spite, personal revulsion at the sight of them, or an ingrown belief that Illidan’s chosen could never be trustworthy. It could literally be a case of fear or intentional self preservation.

In the case of Kaldorei Illidari, I think the reclusive “sticks to their own kind most days” remains the way to go.

I wouldn’t expect them to be hunted on sight or even turned away if they were to visit a town for supplies, but I expect the ambience at the general store would be similar to that of Billy the Kid stopping by to stock up on oat crackers: Tense, and with everyone there wanting for it to conclude sooner than later.

8 Likes
8

I feel alot of people forget that Malfurion almost exiled them from Stormwind rather then accept their help.

Only Tyrande’s interverence stopped that from happening in which she proclaims she does not trust them, at all. But they are usefull. And she still did not invite them into the Alliance or link them to her people in any way whatsoever. They were tools to be used against the Legion, probably because she saw how usefull Illidan was during the Third War

The lack of any meaningful Illidari camps in Night Elven lands should speak for itself. And thats even aside the fact that Archmage Mordent Evenshade would have been killed on the spot if not for Tyrande’s mercy and tolerance… And Demon Hunters are comperably a few steps worse then the Highborne.

It might have been the Highborne that opened the gates for the Burning Legion and their Demons, but it were the Demons that started, gleefully, slaughtering their way through anyone and everyone outside of the Eternal Palace, including Highborne.

I doubt most Kaldorei can or would even tolerate a Demon Hunter. As usefull as they are, I feel like Demon Hunters, Death Knights and Darkfallen are in the same boat, and the moment it nears Night Elven land, they better start peddling away from it…

3 Likes
9

I really like this view of things. I think it’s a really interesting compromise that still allows DH players to find RP and come to Kaldorei lands. But while respecting the aspect of DH and what they are in the eyes of their people.

A kind of perfect compromise of two different visions between tolerance 0 and tolerance 100 i think.

I really appreciate your view! It is similar to mine. I can very well imagine the Sentinels who are in their branches, observing the DH who approach their border and who prepare their arrows to shoot as soon as one of their toes crosses it.

Unfortunately, we cannot impose this decision on everyone! And not all of us share this interpretation.

That’s why I like the proposed methods on compromises or even just ignoring the presence of a DH to avoid an OOC discussion. Although a part of me would dream of being able to unleash a Sentinel on a Demon Hunter to chase him from the sacred lands of the Kaldorei! Or have it swallowed by the earth by a Druid. :axe:

1 Like
10

There was a demon hunter in the Felwood quest chain, basically doing his work. Although it’s hardly Kaldorei territory anymore, I don’t think now they’d refuse calling an Illidari to kill something nasty as long as they don’t stick around after it’s done.

11

And the Night Elves sent you to kill him as soon as they got suspicions that he killed their guards. They had no solid proof of it either since he didn’t actually do it. That being said, that was in Cataclysm, before Demon Hunters became a class and tolerated around Alliance/Horde areas after helping defeat the Legion.

The subject is a complicated matter and I generally disagree with the notion that a Demon Hunter should only be hunting demons and be incapable of friendships and what not. I generally think that allowing your Class to be the main reason which defines your character’s personality is pretty noob level roleplay.

I have played Kelduril in many ways through the years, from struggling with having no real purpose anymore ( Legion gone ) to returning to the things he lived for BEFORE becoming a demon hunter ( seeing the world, researching Arcane/magic, assembling knowledge, studying history and cultures ) to switching his ire towards the Void once it has become clear that it was the next big threat against the world.

I find the idea of a Demon Hunter that is still acting/roleplaying the same way he would’ve been 10 years ago to be rather dull. Characters should evolve with their world. My character isn’t a Demon Hunter who happens to be a character, he’s a character who happens to be a Demon Hunter. He has wants and hopes outside his background/state of being.

Playing a Demon Hunter that only participates in Demon Hunting roleplay would feel incredibly repetitive.

1 Like
12

Personally, while I might downplay the presence of some peculiar figures loitering about, I wouldn’t go as far as to outright ignore demon hunter characters by default on kaldorei lands. I rather agree with Valdreth’s comment:

After what happened in Legion, I’m inclined to think that Sentinels would let demon hunters cross through their territory if they appeared to be there for a good reason, such as being on a mission.

I’ve shared many great adventures with demon hunter characters, and visited a great many places with them. (Edit): Acrona has even befriended a DH and trusts them very much due to everything they’ve endured together. For me personally, the main thing is the seeming intent of the character being about, as I find it unlikely that the illidari, or death knights for that matter, would be welcomed back into the kaldorei society as if they were just regular elves changing jobs. They’ll forever have demonic features, wield chaotic energy, and have to keep their inner demon in check, traits that would still make many night elves uneasy.

1 Like
13

I generally agree with much of what has been said here in the above the posts.

I thought I would share a quick example of what I thought was a good reaction to Demon hunters in an in character scenario before I make my point!

There was a campaign during Legion called something like “The Host of Stars” that saw a great many Night Elf role players head off to Val’sharah and Azsuna to aid the beleaguered Night Elf forces there. The Demon hunter guild I was in at the time, Blood of Azzinoth, was invited along and were treated with a some suspicion throughout, even attacked at one point by some, arguably questionable, role players. We were allowed to partake in all the events and even featured quite prominently in the video for the campaign loaded on to youtube.

After the campaign there was an award ceremony in Darnassus in the Temple, where many of the Night Elves and guilds were honoured for their services. Some of this was slightly OOC for people who helped organise but they were largely In character awards. Despite being present from day one, partaking in most events and arguably playing crucial roles in battle and advisory positions, the Demon hunters were not offered any medals, awards or commendations.

This was a purely In character thing, and the snub was taken as an in character snub rather than an OOC snub, so everyone was happy. It was a good way to have all the Demon hunters take part and be part of a campaign that logically they would have attended, without thanking them for it.

Now onto my point, I do agree with most of what has been said above, but I feel we need to be careful in how we ostracise other role players. The way AD role play generally goes, is that the majority of role play takes place in hubs, like Stormwind and more recently places like Astranaar. This can make it difficult for Demon hunters to role play, as we generally like to role play with other people, which can be hard to do when we’re standing in the middle of the Blasted lands in exile.

One point I always try to think about, is why anyone sits in an RP hub at all. Well, it is to find role play. From an In character perspective, I can’t imagine all the guilds and individuals in Stormwind can afford to or would be welcome to walk around the city fully armed, presumably paying some sort of rent for rooms or homes all day, but we put the logistical point to one side and think of the OOC reason that we want to be surrounded by other role players to role play with or even just feel like we are in a city, rather than an area in a video game with some NPCs.

For a demon hunter death, warlock or any other form of generally outcast race or class, we just want to be around role players to role play with, and sitting alone in some out of the way place with no other role players even in the zone isn’t fun for more than five minutes.

I think, despite the IC implications and how it might affect immersion we just have to, from an OOC perspective, take into account that we should maybe look the other way when a Demon hunter wants to role play in town. I understand if they opened a bakery or orphanage, you might be concerned, but if they are just coming looking company, sure, be suspicious, but role play with them for goodness sake!

I quite agree with Kellduril’s points regarding demon hunter role play. It can be boring to only role play with other Demon hunters, variety is after all the spice of life, and our characters can evolve. Nemyurae for example has made a variety of friends or at least, allies with other races and characters she has met along the way. While she is a Demon hunter, she is still a person and in a post Legion world, is trying to find a use for herself.

All in all, my point is simply that we might just want to think twice about poo-pooing someone.

14

In terms of IC behavior, I am a person who likes to take everyone into account as much as possible. On this point, I never ignore anyone in my RP. Obviously, my character does not want to create drama when he goes somewhere so he will ignore what he dislikes. Which is completely legitimate behavior. We are not going to approach a person we do not like unless we want to take the lead with it. And in OOC, I will keep a distance because a discussion on a different vision IC but especially OOC would lead to nothing. If not frustration for everyone.

All that to say that I adopt the behavior that Valdreth explains when my Kaldorei crosses paths with a Demon Hunter even in Astranaar.

And the purpose of this topic is not to attack players. But to discuss a part of the Lore that we are passionate about and see how we adapt to each. As everyone has pointed out, no one likes RP alone. And it is understandable and normal that even characters who would not be welcome somewhere, come there because the players want RP.

That being said ! Unfortunately Acrona, I haven’t experienced the feeling of an enjoyable RP with a Demon Hunter in a very long time unlike you. My last ones mostly felt like RP with Kaldorei using warglaives and fel magic. Rather than Demon Hunters.

They had a rather common behavior. They had no presence there because they had sacrificed so much to obtain this power, to defeat the Demons. There was even a “light” side to their quest against the Burning Legion. As if it was just a detail in their existence. There was also no struggle with their inner demon or instabilities within them. They were really just normal Kaldorei using fel and warglaives.

As someone who is very fond of Demon Hunters. I admit that it takes all the fun and interest out of RP with them. And yet, I am the first who would like to experience an RP where my Kaldorei is “forced” to cooperate with Demon Hunters. And see the evolution of this RP.

I take this opportunity to come back to something that is often “ignored” about Demon Hunters (but also Death Knights) which is their impact on their environment:

  • When a Demon Hunter uses his fel powers, he uses Fel. The Fel is very corrupting, it corrupts everything it touches. If a Demon Hunter uses fel fire, it will corrupt the ground that is burned. The soil will then corrupt the roots. The roots will corrupt the tree. The tree will corrupt the fruit. The fruits the animals. The prey the predators. And so on. A single Demon Hunter will obviously have minimal impact. But for the Kaldorei who are very sensitive to their environment and nature, it’s already huge.

  • The Ecosystem of the Kaldorei lands is VERY fragile. The slightest corruption, however small, can cause imbalance and chaos. Just look at Furblorgs losing their minds at the slightest change in their ecosystem. With Satyrs and Demons. Or the number of corrupted Treants. Or corrupt beasts. So a Demon Hunter who does not control his powers, which often happens, can have a significant impact on the sacred lands of the Kaldorei. And I endorse the term “sacred” because that’s what Ashenvale is to them. It’s not just a forest.

As for the Demon Hunter RPG, I would like to give some opinions on it that I like:

  • I totally agree that playing an Illidari with other Illidari gets boring fast. And again, it will also depend on the players and the purpose of the RP. Because with an intelligent goal and made to evolve and last, I’m sure it can be a very interesting RP. I mainly play in the Horde but when you’re in a guild with only orcs from the same Clan, it’s the same in the end. Still, me and other players seem to love it and never get tired of it. I think the main reason is that we have a purpose behind this gathering. It’s not just for social RP but for building something, having goals and walking a path together. Quests.

  • Now to have this opportunity, you have to be lucky enough to have a person on the server who comes up with this idea and works on it to make it possible. It is not given to everyone! And not everyone has the time, the skills, or the desire to carry out such a project.

  • Hunting demons is a boring thing? I think we have to look further than that. Demon Hunters are experts in this field but especially weapons. Casting out Demons also involves many different things. First, there are plenty of demon types that will give very different RPs. There is also training, the quest for power, the search for demonic relics. There is also purging an area of ​​demonic presence and corruption so facing sects of warlocks, Satyrs, corrupted Fulborgs. We add to that interesting plots like Guardians who do not accept the decision of the Kaldorei and try to kill you. Or surprise events. There are a lot of possibilities.

  • Personally, one of my favorite guilds goes back to BFA. It was a guild of Demon Hunters who were in Felwood. They gathered Demon Hunters there to purge Felwood but also to make a stronghold there for themselves. They said they were more Illidari by the way. After all, without Illidan and the Legion defeated, the Illidari no longer exist. They were just Kaldorei who wanted to find a place among their people and continue their quest against the demons to protect their home.

  • The Guild was really interesting because there was also an ideology behind it. It wasn’t just the gathering of brothers and sisters. It was the building of an order that sought a new place in Azeroth and a new purpose. Rather than denying who they were to find a place among the Kaldorei, they wanted to “bribe” the Kaldorei to find their place. For that, they showed how the fel was a powerful and useful weapon in the right hands. And so they recruited Kaldorei who were not demon hunters. For that, they showed in evidence the failure of the Druids and the Sentinels. That the Druids were unable to protect their people. That the Sisters of the Sentinels had failed and that their tyrannical laws no longer made sense. That the Kaldorei had to change and adapt once again. And in the end, because I wasn’t there anymore because BFA didn’t interest me at all, this guild managed to create a real little hub in Felwood.

All that to say that I find it unfortunate that Demon Hunter players don’t always seem to go after their choice. And I agree that in the majority of cases, we play a character before a class. But Demon Hunters are very specific. To be Demon Hunters, one must pass trials that make the class one with the character and define their place in the world.

A Warlock can hide that he is a Warlock. He can decide not to be one anymore and become a baker. But a Demon Hunter will never have that chance. His eyes won’t come back. He will no longer be able to become a Kaldorei again, he will remain a half-demon until the end. And his inner demon will never go away. After all this suffering, all his sacrifices, all these losses, I also doubt that a Demon Hunter wants to be a baker. And even if it is his dream, he is aware of having sacrificed it the day he gouged out his eyes and agreed to undergo the ritual of the Demon Hunters. It was the price to pay for this power. And it has to be a driving force in the character’s RP because it’s going to be an endless pain.

After that is my vision of things. And what I like when I RP a Demon Hunter. And I am aware that many players do not ask themselves so many questions. They look at the character’s skin, they think it’s cool and they want to play with a cool skin. End, it stops there and they embroider with what they have.

I find it unfortunate! For me, if you want to play such a specific and particular class, you also have to accept the consequences behind it. If I want to play a person who can RP in a village or town, have discussions with others, friends, loves and family. I’m doing a “normal” character. Not a character of a “specific” class and in a “specific” state.

But we are all different in our way of RP. And in what we look for in RP ! So much the better.

PS :
Differentiating between Demon Hunters and Illidari is cool too. The two are not the same. Illidari are not necessarily Demon Hunters or Kaldorei. And Demon Hunters may not be Illidari. And besides, the origin according to the generation is different. As well as finally the practice of the class.

1 Like
15

Eh. Most Illidari aren’t able to… pull that off. Illidan is pretty much unique in his hooves and wings.

Reminder that the Illidari did not know the Metamorphosis spell until they discovered a tome on Marduum during the intro. And at least one of them blew up trying to learn it. I really don’t think your average Demon Hunter has wings/claws/horns, that’s a new thing Blizzard added to make your character look cool, but Player Characters are pretty much the biggest baddest of their class.

I’m also not sure about the permanence of Fel mutations. They managed to cure Grom when he became a Fel Orc, and that was, in universe, 15 years before the modern day.

16

:nerd_face: ackshually in the holy priest artifact questline in Legion, a draenei vindicator offers to cleanse a demon hunter of his corruption, the demon hunter declines however, because his vengeance is not yet complete. Both treat it as entirely possible, and judging from the way Xe’ra tried to purify Illidan, they’re likely right.

Sure, their eyes are probably gone for good, but beyond that? It definitely seems like the Light offers a way back. It’s just up to the demon hunter in question to decide whether or not they’re willing to give up their power.

17

Illidan is not a half demon. He became a Demon entirely. When he absorbed the energies of the Skull of Gul’dan, it transformed him into a full-fledged Daemon which explains his appearance.

Demon Hunters, on the other hand, change drastically as they grow stronger by absorbing demonic essences or fel power. Scales cover their bodies or their skins change in appearance and become harder. Their blood slowly becomes the same as that of demons. In the end, they become half-demons even if technically, as soon as their blood becomes that of a demon, they are demons.

Grommash’s case was very different. He had drunk demonic blood, but was purified through the intervention of Medivh, Thrall, and Jaina. We are talking about three characters of legendary power. Illidan also seemed able to be purified but by Xe’ra.

Maybe a Demon Hunter can be purified in this case. But it must be a difficult and very dangerous undertaking. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t see anything preventing it, but I think that like many things, it’s free of interpretation. Someone who would tell me that he thinks it’s impossible, I would have no real argument to tell him he’s wrong. If you know what I mean my friend ?

18

As the rule for sure, but with exceptions. Look up Ravael. Dude pretty much got so angry during a sparring session that he self-taught Metamorphosis to kill his foe - though ultimately it cost him his life.

According to the Illidan novel, pretty much all the Demon Hunters have mutations to some degree. Horns, fangs, retractable claws and scales are just the ones I can recall off the top of my head.

Personally, I do think it’s possible to purge the demonic corruption from a Demon Hunter. I do not believe it is a matter so trifling that a Vindicator could swing it however, so much as something a naaru could achieve if they wanted to. But yes - sufficient amounts of magic, any magic, can likely erase and replace others as a general guideline.

3 Likes
19

Oh, sure, it wouldn’t just be some one two done and over thing, but I also don’t think it’d require a naaru. More likely, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

https://i.gyazo.com/b481448cf04f3d436b869d44c3fcd1b6.png

The dialogue in question for those it interests

3 Likes
20

demon hunters cool and good and demon hunters that actively want to hang out with kaldorei weird. excutive opinion as a dh rper, ame dawin out

2 Likes