Almost everytime I meet a DH in arena, I get stunned, and then just sent straight to hell.
Straight to hell âsingsâ
DH is dead in Shadowlands so people should be happy after all their complaining.
Meta stays 4 min CD, Demonic gets 2 sec less duration, Leech is only available through a talent, 15% more damage taken during Blur, Darkness 5 min CD.
Yeah, gonna be great, clueless developers as usual.
thank god!
2 Likes
wtf on you about?? those are great changes, DH had their time on the sun, time to be trash tier
2 Likes
Yeah, time to be trash tier as a Class that has only one DPS Spec.
Jesus Christ you guys are pathetic, nothing else.
ye they deserve it, been op since release
hope they stay trash whole shadowlands
3 Likes
yep had to check, you are a biased DH player, you play 2 in fact, talk about being pathetic huh?
its a trash class for trash players, no surprise to see you here
2 Likes
trash class
2 Likes
Dude. This class right now is broken in 2v2s at least and I heard it does very well in 3v3s too for its simplicity. Overall, you have a spec that:
- has broken self healing
- has broken damage
- has one more win condition which is mana
- has the most mobility in the game (just press space twice to move even faster than others)
About this: Itâs not that much of a nerf. Hereâs why:
- Meta stays 4 min CD which has 2 min CD & now it is buffed to reset the cooldown of eyebeam so it does even more than it did before.
- Demonic getting 2 less sec duration with high haste levels usually means youâre going to miss out on 2 chaos strikes.
- Darkness CD will be 3 minutes, it originally starts at 5 minutes but gets reduced by 120 through a passive later down the line. Nothingâs changed here.
- Blur has 1 minute cooldown. I think itâs rather overpowered to have on 1 min cooldown basically a stronger shield wall than most paladins (divine protection) or warriors do ( warriors need a shield
). And hey itâs even better than a DKâs defensive, IBF! So the nerf from 35% to 20% is more than justified. You still get a 50% chance to just LOLROFL a chaos bolt while tanking it 5 times in a row.
In regards to soul rending, you usually want to take it anyway. The way the talent has been reworked gives you a 5% nerf while out of meta and a 10% nerf during meta.
This effectively means that DHs are indeed not as tanky as before, but, letâs face it, theyâre 90% of the time in meta anyway.
They can still do the following:
- Ignore some if not most CC through rofl blade dance spam (still 9 second cooldown btw and still dodges things for one second, not sure if it scales with haste)
- Double fel rush to close the gaps (10 sec cooldown, basically monk chi torpedo which is 20 sec cooldown)
- Ability to ignore ring of peace by just ROFL i can double jump
- Has great peel with sap
- Still has the extra win condition no other class has right now: mana burn
- Might still do overpowered damage
For your arguments, they are mostly unchanged in terms of the facts they can close in on any given target whenever they went - and most of all, it takes no skill to do so. Just press a button to get there instantly.
Even if you took the blur talent, the 15% nerf is a welcome one because, to be honest, 35% for 10 seconds DR on 1 min CD as opposed to 30% for 8 seconds dr on 3 min CD is kind of lame still.
They got nerfed just a little in terms of defensives. Overall you take 15%-20% more damage during blur if you take the soul rending or the blur talent.
Hopefully this makes them more killable, but they can sit in meta 90% of the game anyway (2 min CD, insta reset CD on eyebeam so you can just go eyebeam meta eyebeam and it lasts for a long time too, as if you did not have that thing going on for you that makes it 15 sec).
Just because it is has one DPS spec does not mean that the class is required to perform with said spec in arena. Just because priest has shadow priest does not mean shadow priest has to be good, for example!
2 Likes
Unbelievable what World we live in that Frost Dks and Destruction Players trash talk other Classes or Specs.
Nonetheless they nerf a lot of DH, force even more the same Talents upon them while giving a lot of other Classes stuff back whereas they take some from DH.
Either way, keep up the tears boys, even if they completly dump DH down the road you will always find a reason why youâre not gonna get anywhere, and that is definitely not DHs fault at the moment, nor will it be Classes X fault in the Future of Shadowlands.
Also, in what World do you live in too where Metamorphosis has a 2min CD? Vision of Perfection will be gone, with that its just a 4 minute CD with a 30 second duration.
Nobody in the right mind will ever play Demonic Origins since they completly ruined that Talent by removing the out of demonform 10% damage boost which was even 15% prior to BfA before it got removed in a middle expansion patch.
And yeah, you have definitely no clue about DHs. The moment Demonic becomes bad or too nerfed in PvP is the moment where DHs will just flop since they have absolutely no way of surviving anything. Yeah, they got Blur. Which is alright. Thats about it though, everything else is required to get through a PvP talent slot. And there you always need right now Mana Rift and Detainment.
Look at what WWs are getting in Shadowlands, look what Rogues have right now. I guess you never played DH seriously at any half-way relevant rating in Legion otherwise you would know how squishy they can be, especially against teams with stuns.
But why am I even bothering, you guys simply are pointless arguing to. Its always nerf to death, never bring up other Classes onpar with decent classes, which is why the Game is such a ruined, pruned, lack-of-everything RNG fiesta through procs.
This is uh⌠me talking about the demonic origins pvp talent which I see taken a lot of the time.
I dunno mate. What do people actually play then that DHs are so often in metamorphsis? Demonic is what helps them? Perhaps youâre right about my lack of knowledge on DH cooldowns, but theyâre very often in meta in a game and thatâs what gives them survivability. VoP prolly also plays a major role.
I admit I may have been wrong by saying DHs cooldown is 2 min, I agree. In a game though you see them very often in meta hence why, in most of the games I was in, I made that assumption.
That being said, what would you personally say that they could improve to then have DHs be on par with other specs? Iâd love to know what a proper DH player has in mind as to how DHs should be designed in general.
We wonât get anywhere by not having anything constructive! ^^
Hahahah yeah. They come leaping down behind you.
âIâM BATMAN.â
I cant agree with that! If Assa is bad people can still play Sub or Outlaw and that all 3 specs are bad in PvP is very unlikely. Same for Mage, Warlock, Hunter or any other non hybrid damage class. But if a DD spec of a hybrid class is bad it usually means that you have to reroll. Thats a huge difference in my opinion!
1 Like
Oh yeah. I did an oopsie there more than likely. I shouldâve taken a more fair comparison!
So yeah. I wanna take that back. A bad comparison is a wrong one!
At least destro and warlock in general has a long history of constantly getting its kit pruned away and the only compensation you receive for that is when Blizzard hopefully just overtunes everything else and makes you OP with the right comp.
Nevermind that they still suck in every other form of content apart from solo, and nevermind that warlock veteran players also hate all the rerollers and low skill design that philosophy breeds.
But at no time is anything the warlock does not absolutely obvious and very predictable and counterable at all times. It only ever gets ugly when teammates make setups possible at the exact right time, else youâre useless for the next 2-3 minutes again, with zero agency over it, AT ALL.
DH gets trashtalked because it absolutely deserves it. Just try playing destro the same way you ***** about as DH, and see how far you go. I bet you uninstall the game after your 7th interrupted CB while you eat 1M+ damage during that timeframe.
DH has a lot of cheat mechanics that they somehow are allowed to have. Double jump should be disabled in arenas. Mana burn has no right to exist after they removed it rightfully from Priests and Warlock. The class is insanely forgiving even if the player doesnât even know what heâs doing. Immunity frames should not exist, Blade Dance 100% dodge should not exist, and their leech needs to be tuned down⌠or the meta uptime.
But donât worry about destro. We are only here because the power systems escalate to infinite levels. When SL hits, we are garbage again until Blizzard realizes they have to make us passively OP again through tuning⌠yeah feels really great. Iâm really looking forward to having zero haste, 3min Infernal and nothing else again, you have no idea how it actually feels to be helpless against enemies because you lack the toolkit to do anything meaningful.
Not even destro is as forgiving as DH when it comes to pure mechanics, denying that makes you look like a fool.
P.S. Donât worry about the 2 specs thing. At least you didnât lose a spec to such a class as yours and were given the most clunky, unfinished and frustrating spec to date as a replacement.
iIâVe gIvEn EveRyTHiNg, wHaT hAvE yOu GivEn?
Uuhm⌠say that again? Really walking on thin ice there, buddy. Hypocrites.
1 Like
A good answer would be an answer to your guild name.
You are not prepared.
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Nobody. Absolutely nobody that is good with DH ever picks Demonic Origins. Dont believe me? Look it up yourself, if you do not believe my word then you should atleast believe what all the top DHs have to say, there are quite a few guides for DH in 8.3 on YouTube by pro players for 8.3 that came out very recently. Tren or Stooopzz for example.
Mana Rift is enforced on you. So is Detainment in 99% of the cases because a instant Cyclone is far too good to slip that up.
The third slot is very dependant, but never ever Demonic Origins. Usually the 70% Darkness, Dispell for your team or the Meteor Flight.
DHs are so often in Metamorphosis because of Demonic and Eyes of Rage + Demonic Appetite. Eyes of Rage (Azerite Trait) reduces Eye Beam CD by a small amount whenever you consume a Soul Fragment, which you can gain by Chaos Striking due to Demonic Appetite (Talent, first row), stunning with Chaos Nova and dispelling (thanks to trait). Add the trait âChaotic Transformationâ which resets the CD of Eyebeam and Blade Dance and you got another 8 seconds in Meta.
Has 0 to do with DO, it was and will forever be a terrible pick in its current way.
To fix DHs they have to make Demonic the choice for survivability as it was in Legion, not the choice for tankiness, damage, and survivability. The issue is that Havoc has no choice.
All Havoc Talents are a huge mess, and they dont even bother fixxing them in Shadowlands.
Dead talents that dont even see play in PvE (nor ever in PvP) like Insatiable Hunger, Fel Mastery, Fel Barrage ( extremely rarely in m+), Desperate Instincts, Cycle of Hatred, Dark Slash and Nemesis all need to get replaced. That is the problem of Havoc in PvP, but also in PvE.
Yet ALL of these talents stay, just slightly buffed while being still extremely useless to pick in any situation.
DH has absolutely no choice in Talent picks anymore, they play exactly the same build both in PvP and PvE.
Demonic Appetite
Immo Aura
Trial
Soul Rending (sometimes Netherwalk for immunity soaking in PvE)
First Blood
Unleashed Power PvE, Fel Eruption always PvP
Demonic
Momentum saw a few weeks of play at the very start of BfA due to that overpowered Trait that caused an AoE explosion at the end of your Fel Rush, but that was it.
Just get rid of all the rng procs, corruptions and everything and see how good Havoc will stand there. Try playing a Game without Mana Rift for example as DH, you will love it.
Im not denying that DH tankiness needed a nerf, and also Mana Rift has to go because its not fun to use or get used against, but what they are doing is just silly as usual.
Alone when DH no longer has the option of Demonic being the go-to pick you will see a huge decrease in survivability due to lower haste (less Blade Dance casts overall), less Leech selfhealing due to no Meta and also less damage with that Leech due to empowered abilities.
If they had another choice of First Blood for damage in that row, they would also dodge a lot less since you would only use it for that purpose, to dodge or to deal damage against 2-3+ Targets.
Its pretty clear all those crybabies here in the Forum have not played DH one minute before they turned so strong in BfA and it shows. I play this Class since I got access to the Legion Alpha and I hate what they are doing it with each new Expansion.
Play this Spec without Demonic and First Blood. Tell me again how absolutely broken and unkillable they are. They have the lucky unlucky situation that everything that gave them talent choice got pruned and the ones that made them tanky also gives them the most damage.
5 Likes
Try to be prepared
Blizzard still finds a way to literally build time machine to cancel being prepared
You are not prepared.
Guess thereâs no winning that one. At least Iâm used to it by now⌠if it hits unplayability, Iâll quit anyway just like the whole of Legion (where I just quit PvP entirely, but PvE was still fun) and 8.0 until mid 8.1 of BfA.