Our problem with your class is that its too easy and everything is baked into your pve dmg rotation, its not that OP
its strong in 2s, but lock and rogue is much stronger
in 3s i guess its k, i dont know man im a mediocre player
the design is just so toxic it makes ppl mad
but since you found my little “joke” offensive
why do u care so much about this topic if you dont even play the game?
I will play PvP again the moment Mana Rift is dead.
I want to be a high burst good sustained damage spec again like it was in Legion the case and not a mana draining battery fishing for Mana Rifts with every CC.
Also, I care so much because this is the only class why I am still subbed to the Game. And what Blizzard is doing with Shadowlands just showcases again that the Developers they have are simply not suited for their job.
By the looks of it you play exactly the same build as you do now, which DHs already play since 8.1 nonstop. Fun.
This is an absolute fair post and also quite insightful and I can respect that.
Actually well done. The exact same thing is true for destro/ demo and even affliction, too.
This is exactly why I hate random class bashing and why I lash out against it if it is unjustified, and the way you word it with talents makes it a fair arguement again.
It’s the same issue I have, they prune everything away you had, force you to take talents of skills or passives you used to have baseline, and you’re stuck with zero choice.
Totally relying on an unstable power system that only exists for one expansion cycle and never fixing the core issues with the class itself.
They even go as far as creeping it into the PvP talents as well. Focussed Chaos is a talent that should not exist. They nerfed the baseline damage of CB from Legion with the BfA prepatch by exactly 65%, and made that talent. So you have to not only waste a talent slot to get the baseline damage of it back, but you also nerf yourself in the process by making CB unable to be split by Havoc.
In the current state, this would be absolutely stupid, of course, but that’s just a tuning issue you have to regulate seperately, not take the class’ toolkit away.
Even if I run Conflict Major, I still feel like I’d need a fifth talent slot to even start actually choosing between utility that would depend on what I am facing… Nether Ward, Demo Armor, Conflag Root (which should be changed to the slow again) all these things used to be baseline.
It’s a mess and I absolutely feel you on that front, in that regard you’re not wrong.
Thank you for the advice! This may help me learn more about them properly. Your post is incredibly informative!
So let me get this straight: Once shadowlands hits, the following nerfs will happen to DHs: No CDreduct for eye beam: and no reset, which means DHs get to sit in Meta only 6 seconds with Demonic.
Along with that there’s also the talents you’re locked in to pick. Yeah, that sounds bad. Hopefully Slands will see a rework for them to add something better to choose from. Maybe some of the azerite traits.
I agree with you there. I want to apologize if I seemed aggresive with my posts, as I didn’t mean it 
It was fun to play against them in season 1, then I quit during season 2. Season 1 at least was slower. Now, as you said, RNG is crappy, too, so I think that (edit here. I was hypocritical) basically changes can happen. It’s only alpha.
Waiting for it to change mightn’t work. A change is needed, and voices need to be heard.Though there is a twitter post I haven’t the link for but they did say they will toy with honor talents in shadowlands. Hopefully that helps you out. Let me see if I can find it
I see why you’re saying they may be in a very bad spot.
Here is the twitter link! https://twitter.com/ckaleiki/status/1248377493511233539?s=19
I respect that.
And yes, they didnt change much at all… which is sad, but we’ll wait and see how it goes
By the looks of it they seem to get the Eyebeam & Blade Dance reset baseline by level 52.
Darkness, however, stays a 5 minute cooldown.
You can look it up yourself in Dalaran’s DH Video called " Demon Hunters In Shadowlands Alpha! First Impression"
He goes through pretty much all the nerfed abilities starting at minute 4:55
Blade Dance has no longer dodge as a component (which apparently rumors to be back already ingame, though)
Blur gives 15% less damage reduce
Darkness has a 2 minute longer CD
And at 3:55 you can see Metamorphosis giving you 0% Leech without Soul Rending, effectively nerfing the current Leech by 10% overall if you still pick that talent.
BfA Meta gives 20% Leech baseline, 10% passively through Soul Rending and another 10% in Demonform.
Shadowlands Soul Rending gives 5% Leech baseline and 25% in Meta, nerfing it by 10%.
The good changes to Havoc so far in Shadowlands are:
Immolation Aura baseline, although without its fury regenerating component. Which means you will pick the new talent in the second row (that currently is Immolation Aura in BfA) to get fury with it.
Pretty much changing nothing about the Spec at all. You are the same demonbat fishing for Mana Rifts - just extremely nerfed while nearly all other classes get so much stuff baseline.
To come back to your question:
Pretty much, yup. They also buff Demonic Appetite heavily by baking the “Eye of Rage” Azerite Trait into the talent, reducing Eyebeams CD for each Soul Fragment by 2 seconds, up to a max of 15.
Sadly I can’t answer much since I got IRL but I’m really glad I can talk with you constructively!
Sadly whener i watch a 3s or 2s game the team with a DH on most of the time stick to the enemy healer.
The healer die most of the time unless he has OP pve items.
Thank Mana Rift for that. That just encourages you to focus a Healer. Wish it was different, maybe it gets removed in Shadowlands.
I know Mana Burning is a big core part of DH due to Wc3, but they should just make it different. Maybe a buff to Mana Break (currently costs 50 Fury, 1min CD, deals 5% target HP Damage and increases mana costs by 30% for 10 seconds) while removing Mana Rift would help.
The class had this coming since a long time. I don’t wish the class to be trash (which isn’t really confirmed yet) but I want it to be nerfed for sure (at least for 2s). It’s supposed to be a casual class yet it destroys the fun of every casual who decides to play something else. The class is just completely unfair and I don’t have the feeling that the people who still play one are interested in sportsmanship or fairplay.
It wasn’t designed for casual players, but introduced at a moment in time when the developers had the ambition to prune ALL classes and make them a lot simpler.
It was also created extremely overpowered to attract new players to a new class. It has since been nerfed constantly to get it in line with other classes (there was a point of time when creating a new DH and questing through its introduction was a real struggle, and maybe still is, since it was designed to be so strong but now is nerfed and those quests haven’t been adjusted).
If you are a player who played DH since Legion, then you have seen nothing but nerfs. Although they have been justified, it is a sad and frustrating feeling for players.
Today however, they are mostly keeping up due to Azerite Traits and Corruption.
The class needs to get more complexity and diversity into its rotation and talents, and have “annoying triggers” like dodging from behind and Mana Rift removed.
Going into Shadowlands, they are in a pretty bad state imho.
Not really the case anymore. I recently made a DH and it was easy to complete.
soo many words soo much stupid babbling
this might come as a surprise but i don’t think people play dh to deal with complexity or diversity xd
This might come to a surprise to you, but people who play DH most likely played something else before that.
So why did they switch to DH? Why did they enjoy it?
Most likely they wanted to try out the new class, and perhaps they were extremely disappointed about the state of their old main.
Imagine going from, say a Warlock, to a DH. Can you imagine how the mobility must have felt?
Back then in Legion, the movement speed bonus from Mastery was at least the double, and your Fel Rush wasn’t even on the GCD!
So you could choose between: spam Chaos Bolt like a turret moving at 0.02 km/h, or spam Chaos Strike while double jumping, dashing and gliding down from Dalaran and pissing on people.
The mobility is great fun at first. But after a while, you realize that it alone just won’t cut it anymore. There is too much content in the game where that mobility is useless.
With enough time invested in the new characters, and all the annoying daily quest and reputation grinds, it’s difficult to switch to a new main yet AGAIN.
So what do you do? You ask for a little bit of more depth to the class.
Amen to that !
At this point I’m positive ex healers ; dks and enhancement players are all playing DHs
however DHs still can’t kill a healer. That is the problem, while a warrior can slowly kill a healer, DH is just simply not capable of. This is why he needs to play that **** mana burn talent otherwise they won’t be able to hit rating…
I feel your pain that DH brings lot of utlitizes. Blizzard needs to make correct changes and give them a real CD and remove mana burn, meta is simply not enough to kill a healer.
Also if you think that too OP, just try it.
So you think DHs cant kill healers and thats a problem?
oh and btw u think meta is not a BIG cd?
How can it be a big cd when it’s up all the time ? 