DH's are still an issue

PVP Arenas
1

Demon Hunter’s are literally still an issue and the only time you can play against them is if the person playing it is clueless with either DH or PvP in general, in most DH lobbies in SS they’re near enough guaranteed at least a minimum of 4/6. I play Destro lock and I’m fine if it’s any other melee, I’m quite confident in my kiting abilities but when there’s a class that doesn’t the biggest burst damage, one of the highest bleed damage, highest consistent pressure, they got 4 CC’s, an immunity, a big defensive on only 1min CD and another huge defensive, ontop of that they can self heal easily, how is this even fair to anybody not playing DH? Why can i not outkite a Melee class? I fake kick consistently for fears, I’ll Havoc Coil both the DPS or the DH + Healer depending on circumstances but to no avail, I’m gonna die regardless of all that, you can literally outplay this class AAAAALLL GAME and still lose.

PvP Devs, is the 2nd round of nerfs and it’s not touched them in the slightest, do something about it or lose subs, simple as,

Yours sincerely, pretty much the entire PvP community (yes that’s including DH’s also lmao)

2 Likes
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What can we do to make them notice how absurd this stupid spec is?

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They know. They don’t care.

Listen, an average Andy with close to 65 IQ needs a class he can smash on. The game is done for profit. Andy buys the game. Andy creates a Warlock and hops to PvP. Andy gets smashed 10 times in a row. Andy disappointed, Andy hops on Rogue. Andy gets smashed again! Andy disappointed again. Andy smart. Andy deserve to win. Andy no win - Andy no pay subscription, Blizzard suffer. Blizzard make class for Andy to smash! Andy play DH, Andy satisfied, Blizzard satisfied.

Good strategy short-term, but awful moving forward. Here the absolute incompetence of blue-haired cancel culture marketologists kicks in. Vile cycle :frowning:

11 Likes
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Haha, best post i’ve seen in a long time

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DH will be an issue for some people forever, regardless of how good the spec is.

But the ladder seems to disagree with you. The popularity of the spec has went down by a large margin since the last reset. Which is nice, I was getting tired of the rerollers.

As of Drustvar Data for the last 72 hours - Solo Shuffle

DH - 15.7k rounds played
Arms Warrior - 22.7k rounds played
Windwalker - 17.2k rounds played
Ret paladin - 26k rounds played

For 3v3 it’s already 2nd to Ret paladin - 3.8 vs 4.2k games played

And this isn’t really about copium - DH is still really good! It’s just not broken anymore, by any means. Isn’t really something you can grab and carry with as a reroller anymore. Literally capped my destro in 3s with a DH a few days back and the guy was doing way less damage than me as a warlock getting trained by melees lol

So DH will remain good based on the current design, but the numbers aren’t even close to broken anymore. Cope or not, count your games in comparison to before for how much you see this class. If you say it’s the same, then you’re simply a hater

Flies away :airplane:

1 Like
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Another doze of copium xD

It sounds like Irony talking about improving as Havoc.

I love how they removed Fodder the Flame from the rotation and buffed them passively then called it a “rework”.

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Apparently Activity is what shows if something is strong or not.
I guess nerf ret pala and arms warrior which were already played more than DHs before the latest nerfs and rebuff DHs.

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It’s called a trend. Perhaps you’ve heard of the word before.

Something is too strong > it’s played a lot > it becomes less strong > it’s played less > less people play against it > less people complain > problem becomes more player specific than general > crybaby people who simply hate the spec continue to do their own thing.

No worries though, arguing with people who barely play the game or are stuck at some rating and continuously blame anything but themselves (looking at Savageshock’s efforts to cling onto a positive winrate for months) is about as pointless as trying to convince some political fanatic in a different opinion.

Have a great day!

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I know what trend is and full aware of it.
But you pointing towards activity as the reason why something is now balanced is just bad argument.
Outlaw were never played more than rets or arms warriors which means those 2 specs are always trending. Means they are obviously busted and needs nerfing if we go that line of thinking and outlaws were either perfectly balanced or needed a buff.

Its the reason why I never proclaim activity to be a good way of showcasing if something is strong or not. It can indicate something but its not “proof” of it.
There are however ppl trying to say their spec is completely bad and unplayable due to activity.

I dont deny this part though since there are ppl who hate certain specs and do rather just want them gone than balanced. I personally dont want any spec removed except fistweavers to be slightly changed.

1 Like
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Outlaw isn’t a problem that concerns low to mid-rated players in Dragonflight. The spec doesn’t exist on low rating.

Tuning is genuinely done to reduce damage or tankiness of specs that are popular on mid to lower ratings (most of the playerbase). DH is popular on every rating. Therefore complaints are 500 times more than for Outlaw Rogues. Even if Outlaw is technically better than DH is now. It doesn’t matter, because Outlaw is more annoying to play for the people who can and harder to play for the people who can’t, e.g not friendly for lower-rated players.

So does it matter that a player is going to get absolutely destroyed much harder by a good Outlaw than a good DH? No, because the first will happen much less often, therefore it’s less of a problem.

And they look at damage the most. Because low-rated players die to raw damage, not to CC.

Mage has the most obnoxious toolkit in the entire game against melees, but it doesn’t easily delete people, so it rarely receives actual meaningful tunings. But Mage isn’t that popular on low ratings, therefore less complaints, therefore less tunings.

Sub rogue still kills half the classes in the game 100-0 easily. Nobody mentions it now, because its rare to face, therefore it’s less of a problem.

1 Like
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Its why I said talking about activity is no showcase of how strong a spec truly is.
It can indicate something but it wont rly tell you everything.

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Talking about activity indicates the direction of the meta.

It’s not about telling you everything. It’s about the general trends. Which is what most people ultimately care about.

Sub rogue = utterly broken spec
Do I face it often? No
So do I have a reason to complain? Not really

How often people generally face something + how strong it is usually = complaints and tunings

You don’t need to try so hard to ride your “there are exceptions” boat. Yes I can use your type of arguements for anything, literally anything. There are no universal 100% truths. In the multiverse there probably is at least once instance where savageshock is above 2.1 with the most obnoxious ranged spec in the entire game.

But the community doesn’t really care about the exceptions in comparison to the major outliers.

So I’ll let people continue with their comedy gold statements, because most of those people will retain the same ratings regardless if their most-hated spec is OP or unplayable.

1 Like
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Have I done that?

Literally what I wrote.

I dont care what other people believe or what they want. Ppl write about nerfs to specs they dont like facing in general.
Some ppl use Activity to make their statements as the definite proof of what they believe themselves to be the case.

Ppl use activity to defend their spec.
Ppl use activity to say they want certain specs nerfed.

Ppl also say they want a spec nerfed because they lost against it.
Ppl also say they want a spec nerfed because they hate it.

Theres alot of “reasons” why ppl want certain specs nerfed even if its funny sometimes.
Most of it is just shortcut reasons and not overall.
But alot of reasons are ppl not knowing their own spec and blame other specs for it.

1 Like
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Yes, of course!

I love how loosely you use the term " defend ". You should consider reading opinions more closely before using your favorite phrase. There is a difference between defending your spec and laughing at people for their bias or critisizing their ridiculous neverending complaints for problems which they try to make out as everyone’s, but are really more personalized to them.

It’s called a simple fact. Less play. Less complaining. Less problem causing.

There you go! That’s the true meaning of 99% of these threads.

I play every single class in the game outside of Rogue and DK. The last “complaint” I made was about Devastation evokers hitting my healers for 350k non-crits, which is simply ridiculous as a number, this is non-arguable.

Which is why I’m giving my opinions. Do I lose to Demon Hunters on my Marksman? No. On my Warlock? No. Can I die to one on my Priest? Not in a million years lol

In fact I barely have anything to complain about when playing most of my classes right now. There are outliers in the game which cause permanent annoyance, such as idiot-friendly and forgiving mechanics, but hey, all specs have those at this point. I don’t need to tear my hair out because even the worst shaman player can press grounding totem after missing every kick on my warlock or mage.

Is Resto Druid in brocolli form supposed to be able to have an infinite amount of instant entangling roots? Is the Warrior Bladestorm out of CC bug fixed yet? Should Mage really have 5 blinks in a row? Hey, I don’t design the game, regardless of how bad those designs are, but I’ve learned to cope with them and push through these annoying things.

Which brings me back to my point.

And they think something is gatekeeping them. That was the whole point.

So people can continue complaining, that’s fine. If DH dissapeared as a class tomorrow, the same people would go to the next thing they hate the most, and the next, but none of those things are what is preventing them from being hardstuck on the same rating for years.

Bon voyage complainers, your teary threads will continue to be treated as absolute comedy gold, and remember to have a nice day! :airplane:

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You mean the same way you actively say ppl just hate the spec when they want some kind of nerf to a spec is not indicating a defense mechanism? x)
Or is it just you laughing at them for “hating” your spec without knowing if they truly do?

Directly or indirectly talking down on your spec is defending it. The intentions might not be for your own mind, but it still is.
“But we die in a stun” is defending it even knowing they did not after the buffs, but it was used because some DHs loved to used that line in S2. So they felt obligated to use it even after the rework because it was the best defense they could use.
Same way some rets defended 10.0.7.

I talked about sub rogues not being weak in S2, one particular person spammed me with “activity” to try to prove its bad.

Which is true. Majority of complains are more based on personal feeling than the overall.

I would say majority is like this. They blame specs, they blame MMR, they blame pretty much everything and that wont change.
Personal responsibility and self reflection is not alot of ppls strong points.

1 Like
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The issue with Havoc isn’t damage to be fair. It’s combination of dispel, Glimpse, def cds and passive tankiness. Havoc just doesn’t die. As Destru or Ele you struggle to pressure Havoc because your sustain damage is significantly lowered due to constant dispelling. This change by itself would make Havoc easier to deal with. This and Judgement dispel should be prunned and never brought back to the game.

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also fistweaver makes this comp even more toxic.

the synergie between ret and warri is too good, + the double freedom, idk why they cant remove double freedom, and make freedom not purgeable instead.

Blur still bugged, if they bugfix this class i would be fine with that

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Can confirm all meta dh are now playing fire mage

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they could remove blur dodge and dh will be much harder into melees, but even if they do in some month later dh would have 2 blurs because some andys wouldnt know how to kite with infinite mobility

dh dies in stun in coordinated arena, but in soloshuffle people hit different targets even in r1 range

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Is it a good design to kite melees half the game? When you’re a melee?

Cause that was DH in season 2. Blur cd = let’s run away! Oh man, that was so fun. Some Monk / Warr zugging me to death while I did less damage than them and “kiting” or having to spec rain from above then getting stunned on landing and dying anyway lol

Currently the only melee who does this is Feral Druid. Why? Because it has no buttons to trade. Even Sub rogues don’t care enough and don’t shadowstep to kite anymore. When’s the last time you saw a Sub Rogue actually run away from anything? Even when it’s a spec that technically shouldn’t be permanently in the fight?

Windwalker also has a lot of mobility to “kite” melees. It even has a port. Do you always just port if you take any damage? No. Because you’re a melee, so you need to do damage. If you have to run back away all the time because you’re mobile, you then need to use up your remaining mobility to return on the target or just rp walk if you have none left. But Windwalker has the most buttons and things to trade against melees, so unless it’s CC on your healer and big damage coming, you don’t really “kite” or port, you trade a CD to apply more counterpressure.