Different talent ''builds''?

Community General Discussion
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The question came to my mind when i looked through most class talent trees and seeing people talk about various different ‘‘talents builds’’.
Yet after going through the new talent trees i’m asking myself - where are these different builds? How? These talent trees offer no different choices whatsoever, nothing that would classify as different builds(which implies different playstyles), especially since, what feels like 80% of the tree, class and spec, is basically a filler, and you pick the same talents at all times, regardless of situation.

At best, you swap around like 1-3 talent points in the entire spec tree depending whether its AoE or ST…but to call those ‘‘different builds’’ is a hell of a stretch.

Now, there are exceptions like shadowpriests where you can pick between a DoT build and a Mind spike/mindblast build…but even then 2/3 of the tree is the same for both, if i’m being generous.

Take a devastation evoker tree, there is literally just one ‘‘build’’, with only real choice being Firestorm talent for extra AoE.

I don’t get it, where are the so called different builds? All i see is 80% filler and 20% ‘‘choice’’…at best.
By the definition of builds i would expect something that fundamentally changes how a character plays…but that is only the case for a couple classes or so.

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For example:-

There isn’t great variation no.

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As i already observed, variation is so extremely small it might even not exist.

I tried to experiment a bit with every class, but there just aren’t any different builds/playstyles, only one build/playstyle with 1 more 1 less or so different buttons to press in your standard rotation.

I guess another way to put it is that there is no real customization at all, other than switching around a few talents in the whole tree at best.

I know the system is new, but damn, it’s really underwhelming, Hope they expand massively in the future, to actually offer different ways to play.

For devoker, which i will play, there really is only one build/path, for both AoE and ST even, plus minus Firestorm. At this stage, i don’t see the trees any different from the old ones…other than 7 talents being spread across 61(including baseline class spells being put into talents)
At least in Classic era trees you could spend point across all spec trees, offering some variety.

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Clearly you never played the earlier xpansions.

You can build your character however you like. It might not be min/maxed. But you can still play and build it as you prefer.

No matter what game you play with talent builds, character progression etc. there WILL be min/maxing scenarios. It’s up you YOU if it’s important for you.

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That was the case in classic era when all 3 spec trees were open…but that hasn’t been the case ever since. There are no different builds because different talents don’t change anything in how your character plays. Trading one mobility option for another, or trading one defensive for another are not different builds/playstyles, just different flavor buttons at best.

One of the very few build/playstyle choices in the new trees are shadowpriests.

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My sin rogue has a envenom build, a poison build and a bleed build that ive been messing with…one is clearly miles ahead of the others but there’s some variety.

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Well I mostly play fury warrior so I havent really gotten into much of the other talent trees.

We have two very different builds that gives us very different playstyles.
We have the fast raging blow build similar to shadowlands and the new slower that focus on bloodthirst and also makes slam useful while completely removing raging blow etc.

We are also able to makes builds that focus more on crowd control or we could go for more survival.
We could also go for bleeds or direct damage.

There are a lot of options to choose from.
What will be the best in theory and be meta might not offer much but that is up to you.

A friend of mine like to play arms, he made an arms build that does not use colossus smash because he doesnt like that ability and he was able to play without issues.

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One or two extra or less buttons aren’t what i would call builds.

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And yet all 3 play differently from eachother.

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No, they really don’t. Adding an extra button in your rotation or buffing poisons/bleeds doesn’t make it a different playstyle, it’s just that, an extra button and a buff to specific spells. Neither of those will make you, for example, stop using envenom in your rotation.

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I means the rotation switches between each build but whatever you say, clearly you just want to moan about the game no matter what…just quit, if youre bored just leave…no-one is stopping you but you.

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So let’s say you use Crimson tempest over Envenom for AoE…so what? How is that a different build/playstyle? You’re still using both anyway.

Who’s moaning? I’m taking a critical approach to the '‘new’ talent system, a talent system that doesn’t offer any more choice or builds than the previous one. Old talents also had talents buffing poisons, also had crimson tempest and so on, but none of those were different builds.

It’s hy i mentioned shadowpriests earlier as they really stand out in their 2 distinct playstyles, which fundamentally change their rotation, at least to a fairly large extent.

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With Shadow priest you can choose 3 a 4 builds but ofc the majority will always be the same, also for lock. And plx wait for df now dont be dillusional you will only get maybe 3 different builds not 10 or sow. Rlly dont be so judgemental.

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Ehm, no there are really only 2 ‘‘builds’’… One that focuses on DoTs and mindflay, and one that focuses on mindspike/mindblast + dark ascension. There aren’t any other, at best you switch a couple talents around for flavor.

Affliction - 1 distinct build that for extra DoT damage, rest is just cooldown reduction. Maybe a few talent choices total.
Destro, the only choices are final capstone talents, extra infernals or extra button(dimensional rift). rest stays the same, more or less.
Demo…same thing.

But none of this changes playstyles, it only adds one extra button at best.

Te talent tree design will not change with DF, its already set. You will only get like 10 extra talent points total, nothing else. Next expansion - possibly.

Most classes don’t even have 3. And again, by builds i mean playstyles, not extra passives or buttons to press.

There is every reason to be. These new trees are, simply put, extremely weak in design offering no real customization, just like the previous talents(from MoP up to Shadowlands).

If you want to understand what i mean by different playstyles, there are many single player RPGs like Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk2077 with different builds that change how you play the game.
Sure, you can’t make mages and warlocks into melee fighters…but i mean the basic idea, something that affects your use of spells, their functionality.
But i think the main issue is that classes today are designed around individual specs, mages aren’t mages, you’re either a frost, fire or arcane mage…each is like a separate class in itself.

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Sounds like your expectations are a bit weird if I’m honest. What change in playstyle are you expecting from a rogue? ranged with combustion?

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Rotational changes. A varied use of class toolkit. Ranged with combustion? no. I mean mechanical changes as is the case for shadowpriests. That’s what having different builds means, not adding extra buttons or flat passive bonuses while changing nothing in the base rotation.
Fundamentally these new talent trees are no different from what we already had…well, except for a few class specs that is.

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I agree with the OP, and I am also disappointed. As the talent tree is very “narrow” at the beginning, most of the talents are the same each time. The only real options which I usually see are AoE/Single builds, for both DPS/Healing.

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It’s true that many specs didnt get a new playstyle so they have atleast two completely different playstyles.
But now the foundation is there to make it possible for the next expansion.

Some specs did get or already had different playstyles.
Frost DK already had two playstyles and they still do.
Fury got a new completely different playstyle to play with.
You mentioned Shadow having different playstyles and im sure there are more specs but I havent played alts since legion due to the AP grinds so I don’t know much about them.

The fact that Fury was able to get a completely new playstyle while keeping the previous one shows that this type of talent system has more potential than the previous system.

If they in the future makes the trees wider rather than deeper they can fit more playstyles into them.

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From what i saw
there is only raid/m+ a.k.a ST/AOE
My paladin have no options i can pick talents for single target or AOE or i can do little bit of both but that will cost you dmg :smiley:
I do not play much right now but that is what is my impression from new trees.

From my understanding the build is something that will change gameplay of your spec
for example
Ret paladin having talents that will allow you to be a RANGED light throwing beast with a shield and mace doing big crits casting a waves of light and burn enemies with it.

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In terms of playstyle variations. Nope there is not a lot of choices.
But in utility, there are now tons of more combinations you can use.

It’s great for group content as you can add something extra to a group and remove something redundant. It allows for much more flexibility, i really like it.