Iâm not gonna talk about any of your other experiences or w/e but youâve gotta admit that was pretty dumb (me being a part of the aforementioned people to boo @ the idea). Iâve RPed a few throwaway tribals caught by HoC/PS and got good RP. If I remember correctly, on the contrary, you drew a good load of open attention to yourself (also wasnât this before Zandalari themselves were fully playable/actually joined the Horde? my timeline may be diluted thereâŚ). Clearly our experiences really differ. You canât really hold a grudge for that.
sorry for the latepost, seems like party setting has already changed
Also Iâll use this hijacking opportunity to edit in an ethics in RP monologue about how, while someone might not see the error of their ways, it takes another to point it out.
This is especially true with setting limitations (or in this case expanding on) what you consider agreeable in RP. Previously saying âyou canât pick and choose loreâ while at the same time arguing âbut itâs not too much of a stretchâ is a form of excluding oneself from the supposed rules youâre trying to defend. This isnât only aimed @ you, since Iâve seen dozens of people fall into that pit.
Itâs just really important acknowledging + realising it to reach zen. Being wrong is never easy to admit so trying to counter/reason it by âbut then this happenedâŚâ is both natural and also the epitome of what the last 500+ posts are about.
I do not know the parties involved, only Chiel. And I know their frustration as well as the genuine love they had for their goblin character.
Again, I donât say that they did not cause harm - they did, a lot. And could have caused a lot more, I am sure.
This is certainly possible. I have not seen the logs of the discussions and I have not experienced what you have.
Keep in mind that I am not trying to invalidate how you feel, or trying to defend Chiel.
But knowing them as well as I do, I can well imagine how they were ranting to people, not realizing how it would look. That they made an alt in secret because they really wanted to be a part of the guard roleplay, without realizing how it would look. And that they struggled with their secrecy and frustrations and vented about that too some people - again not understanding that it was effectively undermining a guild leadership.
Especially when previous members of the Family officers have, in another game, specifically gone âundercoverâ with a sole purpose of undermining and destroying a guild and bragged about it since that guild âhad it comingâ.
So, yes, Chiel should have seen how it would look. And I do not, in the least, fault you for stating that I could be wrong and Chiel could have just behaved just like the rest of the people we sacked from Sixty Thieves that landed in the Family. Like I said, I have not seen the logs and I have nothing but my intuition to go by, which makes me feel that Chiel is more likely to do something disastruous like this by accident than by malicious planning. If you want to share logs and contact me privately to discuss or perhaps change my point of view, you are most welcome to.
Also, saying that Chiel was consequence-blind is not saying they are not responsible, or that they have not done harm. And the difference of how the harm came to be may not matter to the party which was wronged. I can sympathize in that if they had done this to Sixty Thieves, I would have been mad.
Like I said, I donât think itâs a matter that should be swept under the rug so we can all be happy (because thatâd just be false).
So, itâs a shame this all had to go down. And Iâm certainly open to hearing all points of view over what happened. But this is clearly a matter of two sides unwilling to discuss the matter through and somehow it escalated to a point where someone needed to leave the server and disband their guild - effectively leaving the wound open and undealt with by shutting down further dialogue.
And they claimed that they could not speak their mind before out of fear for their guild.
Then people show up to spew insults after them.
So, you know, the question is if something more constructive can come out of this. If everyone keeps escalating a cycle of revenge and justified anger, next time someone does something like this, will it go any different for any party? Or will anyone be left any better off?
And similarly, what good came from Chiel leaving everyone guessing. If they are leaving, why make a manifesto of anger, when itâs rather the last chance they have to actually leave something worthwhile behind. Why not talk about their experiences and try to find ways to change them, explore reasons of what made them leave and what the community could do to amend those faults.
But no, the cycle of hate has to continue.
I guess thereâs an irony in that if the Family was born from anger and spite directed at the Sixty Thieves, that it goes down from anger and spite directed at PCU.
But keep in mind that my rose-tinted glasses, if I have such, are from having been there when the Family was born, on the side that took all the anger, backtalking, undermining of officers, trying to poach members away from Sixty Thieves and the general drama which took place at the time. And still having been able to build dialogue and overcome those difficulties - even when it wasnât easy.
And here, all dialogue is being cut, from both sides.
I canât say I agree really. As you might have read in this thread, despite the extremely shady moves pulled BB was still willing to continue RPing with Chiel if they ever shared the same space. There was no particular bad blood until the person who pulled the aforementioned shady moves then tried to paint themselves as a poor, attacked victim and score some pity before they packed and left.
The matter was essentially resolved in a way that was entirely in Chielâs favour but she opted to rip it up for the grand finale instead.
In the face of actions like that, what can we really do but call them out on blatant lies?
This is the 2nd time (that I have seen) where he has an argument with members of the PCU (because as said, he is a clown on the forums) he claps back with; âyour salty i won that tournamentâ
Donât you see the discord here? That perhaps the âvictimâ is a manipulative person? After all, they never detail how they were a victim other than referring to community dominance on the server.
They fail to phrase how they are a victim because their actual âvictimhoodâ is a result of them attacking the largest horde-side RP community over and over even though that community cared very little and only ever kicked her from a guild + ignored her.
This situation is not unique. Let me tell you the timeline I see:
Family officers/Chiel brag around, claiming they destroyed a guild on another platform through infiltration.
Family develops some beef with a guild.
Chiel uses an alt account to infiltrate the guild. They create a discord server and invite members.
The infiltration is discovered and Chiel is removed from the guild.
Chiel is pissed at the guild and tries to paint themselves a victim.
The guild doesnât have from it and begins to systematically ignore Chiel & co.
Chiel gets frustrated and wants to paint themselves a bigger victim / paint the community in a bad light.
Chiel convinces part of the Family to âquit wow with themâ and posts this inflammatory manifesto.
Most of the aboveâs been proven/claimed/confirmed from both sides. The only assumption you have to make is that Chiel lied to you, lied to others and is generally a manipulative person.
So whatâs going to happen?
Seen this play out over and over in other communities. Some of the manipulative drama queens pulled this. Even seen some threaten communities with âforcing their people to leaveâ if they didnât have their way.
The results are always the same; a few weeks pass and the members start trickling back online. They feel excluded from the community up until the moment they realise everyone understands they were manipulated and nobody holds beef against them. So they just re-join except for some weird few.
The drama queen / victim queen makes another alt account and re-joins the community, only to be revealed months later because they fail to keep their secret / fail to keep their tendencies in check and the situation plays out again.
