Good old council lemonade.
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A lot of the Horde folks outside of PCU have their own communities and connections that they can call upon for sizeable multi-guild events and inter-guild cooperation.
This thread is more about lamenting the lack of unity in the entire Horde, a unity that existed as recently as the summer of 2018. Sure, maybe that rift could be mended if the entire Horde did things the PCU way, but it could also be mended if the entire Horde, PCU included, did things another community’s way.
Either we all learn to get over ourselves and cooperate despite differences and grudges, or we all march in lockstep to the beat of a single drum. These are the only ways to re-unite the Horde and of course, no one feels like cooperating any more and everyone wants it to be their community’s drum that everyone else marches according to.
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Am I the only one bothered by the fact that this feeling is part of the reason campaigns are being organized in secret now? 
It’s like you’re trying to access port 517 to build a bridge but even port 517 is closed. Must be a nightmare for people who are completely new to Horde RP and still trying to find something to latch onto.
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Easier to cater to people that you know you can get along with, much easier than putting yourself out there to be picked apart on the forums and to potentially cause drama when people you don’t want to affiliate with either sign up or turn up anyway without signing up.
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Right? I hate comfort zones 
My two cents on the whole matter is that the advent of Discord as a whole shook the AD community up irreparably.
Back in ye olde Skype days, most servers were just small guild/community ones, and most serverwide OOC communications were done through the official forums. There was much less room for OOC divides because more often than not, your interactions with the wider community would be through RP first and foremost.
With the advent of server wide instant messaging and unofficial community discords which inevitably show bias (something I’m just as guilty of), it’s no surprise that the whole in-group-out-group mentality has been cranked up to eleven.
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I can’t say I disagree with you, Boush. I used to be a dedicated Horde main back in the day, but this is one of the reasons I am just not particularly enthusiastic about coming back.
I just want to have a bit of fun in my RP. It’s exhausting to have to watch for spies passing around your chatlogs every time you join or make a guild. I am so tired of AD politics. There’s a bunch of AD people I don’t particularly like, for various reasons, and while the Fallen Leaf is far from my perfect guild, at least it lets me relax a bit on the politics front (thankfully the ADpolitics problem seems to have completely steered clear of the neutral RP scene).
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I was about to write a huge post, but you pretty much summarized it. (I have my perfect guild as well, both RP and raiding)
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I think it’s important to highlight this, there are people who attend campaigns who don’t really care for it beyond “free rp”. Unironically seen troll guilds leave campaigns because they don’t want to roleplay near blood elves, people leave because they couldn’t be bothered to read the rule set and so on.
Why bother doing some for the public when they’re quick to just poo their pants and blame you for it?
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Bit weird, considering a lot of races can at least find some sort of things to banter over or bond over. Just mock the elves for being degenerates who wield stolen troll magic while you fight beside them, if your character is the sort who would know about that sort of thing.
Yeah, it seems like a lot of campaigns are either organized in secret or not advertised on the forums as often as before. I suppose that falls under the fact that people are generally divided; which is a shame.
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Skype cliques always existed, but the difference was Skype was generally a pain to use and manage with lots of people in one group. By comparison with Discord you just send a link and boom you got a few dozen people together and the owners have actual control and management abilities. Discord is almost too convenient in that regard.
I suspect it’s because neutral RP outright requires co-operation. It straight up can’t work if there’s cloak and dagger stuff going on between guilds since neutral stuff tends to be very tight knit and niche.
Nearly everybody in neutral RP is on the same page, whereas on Horde (Especially through BfA) you have clashing ideologies and approaches both IC and OOC. It happens on Alliance as well (Forgive v Hate the Horde) but not nearly to the same degree, or it’s mitigated by the sheer size of the Alliance community compared to Horde so the divide doesn’t seem as bad.
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No king rules forever.
New overlords will rise, new guilds will spring out the woodwork and new splits will be made, like always.
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That’s why I find neutral rp the best rp I ever had.
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I’m not picking on you specifically, but I just want to go back on this point of no turning back.
From here on ‘you’ or ‘one’ really is the general pronoun.
There seems to be a sense that a lot of people believe that the problems that rose up were along the lines of a minor disagreement, or a spat that ended up too emotional.
There is truth to this, but to me, what caused a lot of the real bad blood, a lot of what put people in different camps and what made people want to stop bothering or reaching out was that it wasn’t just limited to being debates in regards to how one was RPing.
There were, and still are at points, a lot of folk who have made the issue of what/who someone is RPing, what they are enjoying and what about the game itself excites them a case of morality. I have seen people equated to being genuinely, as in as per their real life values, stated as obviously being supportive of dangerous and violent ideologies because they wanted to play a character with negative beliefs or traits. This become tenfold if you said that, as a player, you actually liked the character of Sylvanas, or enjoyed the Horde loyalist story, or had been looking forward to the faction war before it disappointed practically everyone.
I’ve been witness only yesterday to someone on Twitter (not from AD, just generally), stating earnestly that they were scared and disgusted by the jeering that went on at Blizzcon at a Teldrassil picture because that told them the audience were all alt-righters of the most extreme. This is madness.
It’s really easy to claim that we could all get along if we just overlooked the small heated arguments we’d been having, but what it’s really coming down to is there are people now approaching and asking why they’re being ignored outright, why they’re no longer being entertained as a possible community connection, etc while trying to ignore that they’ve made some really affecting claims and spread some very dangerous rumours.
To even begin to bridge this gap it’s not just about apologising, as it is eating some very large helpings of humble pie, too. Truthfully, I don’t blame people who have suffered the worst of it for not even wanting to bother thinking about it.
I’m not even going to make claims about ‘I just want to RP, why is this happening’ because I’d reckon everyone invested in RP on the AD EU realm ‘just wants to RP’ but I also would like to be able to RP without my very real life politics and morals being called into question. I’m still shook that this was actually too much to ask of people.
Last bit. I dunno. I give my opinion but I’m not secretive about the fact that middle of this year I did find myself happier for overlooking the rumours and claims and engaging with the PCU, and at this stage, like many others there, it’s only them (and Red Venturers) I will put that mental and emotional energy towards.
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Yeah kind of like this [Discord Community] Argent Dawn Gnome Discord - Arclight, GAC, GRS & You!
I don’t like to run campaigns to the extent that I used in part because of that but also because of people lying about numbers in sign-ups (in fact, my last campaign had the Alliance faction overestimate their turnout by almost 300%) and as mentioned in this thread people leaving arbitrarily if they’re not catered to 100%
Back in what I like to think (very humbly) was the golden age of AD RP PVP campaigns, I could write cool stories - like the first few Soggoth campaigns, Rising Storm, Legacy of the Saurok etc - because I knew people were excited to be there and would be patient with seeing what happens
My last few campaigns had to follow a strict Horde wins one day - Alliance wins one day - ends in a draw formula because people have since realised that if they’re ever losing in any way they can just say “Well, I’m leaving” to no consequence to their character and avoid it altogether, to the detriment of the other attendees and also my personal enjoyment
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I still have nightmares of the Horde war machine cutting me down ceaselessly outside of Lor’danel.
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I kind of agree with the fact that some campaigns have people leave or not give their barebones numbers; that happened in my one and only campaign (which I did not advertise due to anxiety and desire to keep numbers low and limited) and some people ended up pulling out for whatever reason there was.
I just think that a lot of people need to get over the “I’m not winning therefore I’m leaving!!!” bit and enjoy a story; so I don’t understand in any necessary capacity the need to leave if you are losing.
That doesn’t resume to just RP-PvP though. Let’s look at the side of rebel vs loyalist stuff on the Horde; and I think a lot of people generally thought that the conflict might end up getting their characters having their asses kicked therefore not wanting to partake. (I’m not speaking about anyone in particular, I’m generally thinking it’s because of how it was portrayed.)
So in all honesty, I think what would bring the campaign announcements back on the track is if people accepted defeat more often or otherwise just be prepared for it.
So yeah, TL;dr - I agree with you, story should be favored over winning and people should be more honest about their numbers.
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I saw this too. That kind of hysteria is absolutely mental. Equating Sylvanas fans to national socialists/fascists is the kind of lunacy that online bubbles can create.
The Twitter person needs to get some fresh air and a few hours away from their screen.
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The problem is they would involve themselves by - for example - having meetings where they would plan to assassinate Perroy / talked about what they’d do once Sylvanas was dethroned … but once these meetings were exposed IC / their cover was blown suddenly it was a big no go to react in any way but a light slap on the wrist, entirely at odds with the lore with big posts about OOC consent for every small interaction flying
I was never really asked OOC if I was cool with a group of 40 guys planning to PK my character of 10+ years either but I guess that consent only works one way 
I would have said yes though
Hope you saw my really funny response too
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