Discussion: Taking L's

Argent Dawn
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Time to discuss something that I’m real good at, fellas: taking fat L’s

In character we’ve all been in a brawl at one time or another, just throwing punches and dodging and whatnot. Some jobbers and duders out there though are gods of the arena. They can do like the anime pajama man and dodge all hits and deal devastating damage in the alleys of Stormwind. Similarly we’ve seen plenty of orcs shaking off choke slams out back behind the wyvern’s tail with no problem.

There’s plenty of ways to settle these brawls ic and ooc, with /duels and rolling and stuff. In recent times I’ve simply settled on taking the L and taking the punch. If it ain’t lethal or maiming then my characters are gonna get suckerpunched and stabbed. And many’a folk been surprised by it, like they just assume I’m gonna dodge a kick to the ribs because that’s what they’d do. Friends have even gotten whispers to stop when they take a knife in the gut.

This is not to say this is a perfect method. I’ve seen plenty of folks all but jump onto knives, making detailed emotes about how some jobber just disemboweled them to try and prove something, making and taking a L that maybe unnecessarily escalated a situation. I aspecially remember some guy getting punched and having his neck snap, all but doing a 180, and almost killing the duder in the middle of some big ol’ meeting.

What I want to get down to is:

  • Do you go into conflicts to try and be the victor?
  • What creates more/interesting rp? Drawn out big ol’ brawls or the post-beatdown rp?
  • How do you prefer to settle physical conflicts IC?

and finally

  • How willing are you to have your character lose?
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Just turn an L into a W by showing off and twisting the stories about the event.

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…I had to google what the expression means.

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I’ve lost fights. It’s character building, as is winning. If it makes sense to lose, that’s what’s going to happen. Reflect on why the loss occurred, and evolve from it.
If a physical confrontation occurs, I often try to walk away. If it is impossible to do so, I’ll aim to incapacitate the opponent, or find another way out in most cases. (Unless it’s rppvp, different story.)
RP isn’t about I MUST WIN! it’s about forming a story, and winning all the time is more boring than fighting Thammaron.

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No, I try to make them as absurd and humorous as possible, as is the point of the character, infact a lot of the time a loss is better because I can come up with the most absurd escape.

Depends on who you’re rping with, someone might be better at writing combat than dialogue.

PvP is fun but i prefer emote battles (Without roll) because they can be the most creative, however I hate doing emote battles against “Dodge Bois”

Always willing, as long as its fun and it makes everyone either laugh or roll their eyes, it’s good.

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From an IC perspective, naturally! My character will fight for his beliefs, ideals, and opinions. He’s not willingly going to roll over and die, so he’ll naturally try to be the victor.

OOC, I am more than willing to have my character lose. Losing is fun, because it offers much more in the long term. Your character may develop a grudge, fears, be humiliated - there’s simply much more to be gained from losing than winning in the long-term.

I always think the post-brawl roleplay is the most enjoyable. Healing roleplay is fun, and the character development generally comes from a character reflecting and reviewing their actions. It’s somewhat similar to camp RP compared to RP-PvP, IMO.

That is not to say winning (or watching someone win) isn’t entertaining. I think brawls in the moment are also fun - ooh- and ah-ing at others fighting is certainly amusing. Having your character land that successful right hook on someone else’s character can be oh so satisfying.

In conclusion, both are fun. Losing allows for more character development in the long run, but that doesn’t make winning bad.

Assuming this speaks on the method of combat (e.g in-game PvP, free emoting/rolling, etc), for me it’ll often depend on who my character is fighting. In general, I pick emotes over anything game related, though I respect those who enjoy using PvP to duel; I think there’s absolutely arguments that can be made in favour of in-game PvP, but I prefer other methods.

Overall, I prefer free emoting. I generally trust people in the sense that they can realistically portray their characters in fights - they take hits they should, they dodge hits their characters reasonably can. Characters have flaws, fears, and so on.

RNG is often only a method that I think works when characters are on even footings. Otherwise, you may have a master monk lose from a crippled, disabled toddler purely because the latter has more luck in their rolls. It’s unconvincing and, quite frankly, unfair to the master monk RPer.

In-game PvP is fine if people want to use it - I think it’s nifty when someone can back up their proclaimed levels of skill with the OOC skill, for example. Although it’s not for me for a variety of reasons, I definitely think it’s viable.

To continue my rambling for one more paragraph, the issues of the latter two can be fixed with fair ease - the master monk could simply have a handicap (e.g guaranteed +40 to rolls) and for PvP battles, participants could simply agree to wear lower level gear/not use all their abilities.

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IC yes. OOC I just want to create good RP for both of us, win or lose.

The post-beatdown RP. I get bored and lose interest if the fight lasts for more than 10 minutes.

If against an equally strong opponent IC, I can do either free emoting or roll battles. Otherwise, free emoting.

If it makes sense and creates interesting RP and character development, I’m perfectly fine with it. Uruk won and lost before and each fight helped him develop both as a fighter and as a character.

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I just go in to have a good time. I’ve seen people express shock at a grunt actually getting struck by their attacks and, as long as it’s not something lethal over downright trivial matters, I’m pretty much always willing to roll with the punches.

Of course, there’s a limit to everything. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you and all that. Keep clowning and eventually there’ll be very little means to strike at my characters.

Both can have really interesting potential. Brawls for the immediate fun, the aftermath for the lengthier frustrations and conflicts it can cause IC.

Violently, obviously.

tbh I’m just perfectly dandy with free emoting, no rolls or anything, as long as I’m not bumping fists with some absolute :clown_face: who is just gonna shake everything off and easily slip out of any predicament etcetera. If people have an issue, they’re 100% free to PM me so something can be worked out EZPZ

Totally willing to lose, again, as long as it doesn’t lead to serious/lethal damage over some absolutely trivial :poop:

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I’ve found it actually highly more interesting more often than not with the right company to take the hit than avoid it. My character Bahala atypically gets on the bad side of the local law in Orgrimmar a lot, and although she never starts anything violent herself, she does draw people to attack her for what they say. I think it’s fun to see my haughty character get punched in the face to shut her up; I get to turn her boastful, sure attitude into a skittered, cautious and threatened mess.

I don’t personally understand people’s desires to avoid any and all injuries. Getting abruptly punched in the face isn’t going to ruin anything about your character. More often than not, I usually lose brawls or fights on this character on purpose. She’s no fighter, really, so it’s only natural she’s no good at it.

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I generally avoid having my character fight someone unfamiliar. This is both to avoid wasting time on someone potentially not RPing in good faith, but more importantly because it means I can properly compare the characters and emote accordingly.

Win or loss doesn’t matter. A logical outcome consistent with the story does.

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In a physical conflict, Vervaina would no doubt lose to a gnome. She has no training, no Hulk -like genetics and a deeply rooted dislike of pain.

All of this is why she is so fond of sending a Void minion to fight on her behalf.

OOC I really don’t care if my character winds or loses a fight.

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It depends on the situation given but overall my characters aim to be the jobber in the situation, and it does make for interesting roleplay! I love roleplaying out how difficult a challenge actually is, putting in my emotes that the struggle is there but my character still gives it his all. After these conflicts is what comes my favourite part of RP conflicts and that is the aftermath: the visible defeat that a character now has to cope with or the gratifying victory that means a lot to them. And with my characters taking a loss more times than a win I do think it makes every win that much more powerful.

Drawn out big ol’ brawls, but not drawn out too much! It must work it’s way up to the climax that is the finish of the fight, and the longer the fight the more powerful the climax must be. That’s why Deontay Wilder vs Tyson Fury is remembered as a great fight, with Deontay knocking Fury down and the latter getting up as if he was just combat ressed in a raidrun.

emoting freely and using a roll system if both sides don’t agree on the way the fight is taking. The physical conflicts my characters have had mostly have been just emoting freely, with a few whispers OOC to make sure both sides were on the same page how the fight was going to go down.(not with specific details mind you)

I don’t mind being the usual jobber and my characters can take a loss. A loss makes opportunity for a character to grow, it’s also a good way to show that the challenge they represent themselves with was real and they couldn’t deal with it. Especially when the character tries all what they can through emotes you can blur the lines of what is to be expected. It’s what pro wrestlers try their best at doing, when the bad guy wrestles down the good guy you still need to believe the good guy can do a comeback(while you know the bad guy is still dealing a lot of damage). Now it’s hard to blur the lines while you’re the one writing it out of course, but you still try to write out the conflict well so that it shows your character is trying and the conflict has meaning.

All in all I think every character are able to take a loss, especially if they want their character to grow or represent their characters well. In real life it’s hard to not feel for someone who’s clearly given his all and did not reach their goal. I know it’s a different world but listening to Dustin Poirier after his loss to Khabib Nurmagomedov was quite emotional and showing character. (4.26)

Real respects real, make the losses and victories count in Roleplay.

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People typically want to win. Not everyone gets to.

Quantitatively, the aftermath of conflict makes the most as consequences are dealt with in various ways. In terms of quality, I find more of it in people’s interactions around the fight before and after than the emoting of blows.

Since it’s already physical, assuming negotiations of any sort collapsed, I like emote fights in spite of how I despise them being drawn out for hours in the thrust and parry.

All the time. They’re not necessarily bulging gods of war, biting off more than they can chew or getting hurt just because they entered a fight. If the event and fates conspire toward an unfortunate outcome, I emote with that in mind.

A bit of hurt isn’t a bad thing, generating story and making the healers feel useful.

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Do you go into conflicts to try and be the victor?

I don’t OOC, but my characters certainly will. I take some joy in seeing either character / player do their best to outsmart the other person, in a way, and perhaps force them in a bad position. Naturally, there are characters who either don’t have the skills nor the mind to do that, and those are just as enjoyable.

What creates more/interesting rp? Drawn out big ol’ brawls or the post-beatdown rp?

Definitely beatdown RP. I share the same opinion about combat RP in DMs or otherwise. Combat for me is more or less a necessary evil for the character development after, unless the fight has certain mechanics you need to properly think about. I generally don’t like generic combat RP. it doesn’t hook me for long, unless the characters have history.

How do you prefer to settle physical conflicts IC?

I most enjoy pure emote fights without rolls, but if I feel I can’t trust the other person, I generally resort to rolls. I like PvP battles a lot if the visuals aren’t too far away from the actual way it would look IC.

How willing are you to have your character lose ?

That depends entirely on the character I am RPing. I have certain characters that are mere beginners in combat (e.g. my recently enlisted Sentinel). She gets beaten up pretty much all the time, and that’s enjoyable and fun because it fits the character.

On the other hand, I’m not very willing to lose just to about anyone on my DH, as I think certain classes would simply win by default against most “normal” characters (average mage, warrior, rogue). It would make his sacrifice and entire way of life look stupid if he couldn’t even beat a mere grunt or otherwise. It just wouldn’t be enjoyable to me because I don’t feel its in line with how these classes are depicted in lore (DKs, DHs in this case).

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Real life representation of people trying to beat Akamito in an emote fight

Akamito never loses. Ever.

In reality though he is the weakest of his tribe and is naturally not a great fighter, he’s still a Tauren so he gets by in most scenarios but not with anyone seasoned. Made him more interesting than my previous characters that were great at everything.

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I feel like in roleplay, in general. People miss some of the more “human” cues. This doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with being any particular race but being sentient and intelligent. It’s the difference of giving a punch, having a brawl and not going all the way. While in Warcraft there are some exceptions in terms of emotion kicking in and stopping someone from terminating another. I’ve rarely, if at all, experienced roleplayers showing grief or regret about having a brawl or having hurt someone and that always bugged me.

As for taking the “L”. Imo that’s just one roleplayer showing another a level of respect that’s again rarely appreciated. So good on you.

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Quickly avoiding the attack, Akamito the Tauren Warrior blocks the enemy’s Runeblades and cartwheels sideways, barely avoiding the Staff. They would then disappear a swirl of raging shadows and call thunder from the sky before lifting the enemy by the throat and summoning a meteor to crush them. This would crush their bones and cause those nearby to feel the chill of death on their bones.
https://en.shindanmaker.com/926867

Assuming it’s not someone being a total clown and roleplaying the hero of Azeroth (who sits around in Stormwind/Orgrimmar all day, of course), very willing. If it’s someone who’s just being confrontational on a character they’ve designed to be extremely powerful and logically stomp anyone else, I usually don’t bother. If I do have to fight them, I usually void it a few days later simply because it’s an encounter that wasn’t done in good faith, and not something I really want to add to my character’s arc.
Losing a fight can be fun, but having to fight with some hero-of-azeroth RPer waving their peen around isn’t.

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Generally I try not to; even though it can feel very cool in many a situation that my character wins, I don’t enjoy having a too competitive mindset as part of my roleplay. I think it distracts from the enjoyment of the encounter itself (the brawl, duel, fight, etc), where the focus should be in my opinion, for all parties involved.

Despite playing an orc with a fairly violent and fiesty personality, I haven’t made her the type to look for, or create, conflicts left and right and I’m not looking for conflict roleplay just to make my character look more powerful than others’. The first questions I ask myself when things seem to escalate towards a conflict; how true am I staying to my character? What are the chances the conflict will lead to an entertaining and enjoyable RP encounter or not, and would I be okay with my character losing?

For me it varies a lot depending on the people I’m playing with! Sometimes the build up is the most exciting part. Sometimes I sync and click so well with another player when it comes to our approach to roleplay that the fight as a whole becomes a delightful memory we later love to recall. Sometimes it’s the roleplay afterward that shines with emotion. Often though, especially if the conflict took long and because I live 1 hour ahead of Game Time, the post conflict happenings are more focused on wrapping things up before logging out.

In general I try first think of what seems reasonable and fitting for the situation, and opt to use rolls with players I’m not too familiar with. Sometimes I use a simple roll system with friends as well, though with many of them I’m happy to just wing it and see where it leads us.

Quite willing in general, I think. In Manata’s case for example, I don’t feel like I have to protect the character’s reputation or ego as if she were some unbeatable warrior. She’s still young and makes a lot of mistakes despite having been trained in the ways of war from a young age. It makes sense she’s sometimes humiliated by losing. I like my characters having ups and downs both; you win some you lose some. I think this makes for more interesting stories that develop your character.

But the answer also depends on how the other player treats the conflict roleplay; if it feels like they only want to fight my character in order to add them to some checkbox list of characters that they’ve beaten, and keep harshly demeaning my character through emotes to depict them in a very bad light without me initiating it, it can be annoying. (Example: X dodges the dim-witted warrior’s clumsy attacks before taking an advantage of the weak girl’s unfathomable slowness as he knee kicks her in the guts with lightning speed ) In short: if I feel the other player’s only motive/interest is to win and earn some bragging rights, then admittedly I’m not happy about it.

Lastly, if I feel that any of my characters is supposedly very very powerful and it somehow doesn’t feel right to risk them losing in too many situations, I a) rather just convey the character’s might non-disruptively in written stories b) organise something among friends c) avoid bringing the character into conflict situations. It’s not in my interest to create friction with other players by trying to turn the roleplay into a contest of power levels.

To conclude, in conflict roleplay, even if the characters were at each other’s throats, I really love it when players try to make the conflict fun not only for themselves, but for the other person too! It takes two to tango, and if you keep stepping on each other’s toes…

Edit: having a conflict with grammar

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Can confirm (took a fat L from her in a roll battle)

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Happily, but only if I’ve roleplayed my way into it. I can’t be doing with entertaining the infantile epeeny dreams of every StoRMwinD master hat #thug who wants to punt my character about.

I think it applies especially if your character decides to pick a fight with somebody far their superior in combat/magic/stealth/whatever. Better to strive for a logical conclusion rather than undermining their characterisation by going toe-to-toe with a demon hunter or a death knight. Bare in mind, of course, that doesn’t necessarily preclude you from having IC you pick fights with the aforementioned characters either.

I could destroy any of you in an emote fight anyway. Twelve paragraphs at a time. A detailed study of anatomy and death with enchanting metaphors.

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