Just you wait until TWW. The games are gonna be twice as long.
wish we could get back from PvE rotation button smashing to coordinated long CC setups
PVE rotation spam, are getting more rewarded than coordinated CC setups, makes the game very boring, one sided, and it makes the game more like a “pve fight”
i mean i remember when everyone complained that the game felt scripted when the game was cc heavy, but i think the game had a better quality than now
Just remove some micro cc´s maybe increase the cd from Kicks, but as a comparison Increase the normal cc from some classes, like make blind dangerous again, remove the freezing trap Nerf, etc
but i think it is too much to ask, and blizz wont change it because of pve.
There is just too much PvE activity compared to PvP activity. Like, incomparably more.
Let’s see how the game evolves moving further, I enjoy playing pvp right now and just started to learn it more in depth so I have newbie’s enthusiasm.
What makes you think so? As far as I can see, damage is higher than ever at the moment. I am doing 40-60m damage on honor geared characters. It isn’t going to be a complete reverse at 80.
Upvoted but removed for cuck comment in the end.
PvP is considerably more enjoyable than it was in BfA, but Blizzard really damaged it permanently.
So many dumb decisions, and this idiotic out of the blue decision to make the game ultra fast.
So far the game feels like in the best state ever, balance wise. Sure some tuning issues here and there but I never had as much fun as now. The pace is great. The only real issue is that the game lacks incentives to actually keep playing.
In SL you could grind that rating for your gear, which gave an actual reason to keep playing and try to win. On top of that the gear was very viable in PvE which gave you the option to play PvE with your friends.
The decline happened after this very system was removed. Not surprising to me. I called it out in S4 already when we knew about the changes. It was the same in Legion and WoD. If there is no reason to play, people obviously won’t play.
I am. The game is fun to me and I see no better mmo pvp game out there.
If gameplay is not fun, people won’t play. It’s not about gearing, shadowlands just gatekeeped fotm rerollers, which is good in one case
In bfa where you were getting all gear only from pve, to have best gear you had to do mythic raiding. But pvp was more fun, nobody cares if fury war or frost dk is not playable, nobody cares if only 1 spec of rogue is viable. You could actually only use gladius or dr tracker and may be omnibar for kicks and nothing else
Now you have nasa weak aura setup and getting ping pong ding donged by knockbacks and static totems and random spells up and down through entire arena all game. All classes are dhs breaking every cc in the game by random passive dmg in 40 meters range
That’s always subjective, nobody can argue with a straight face that the gameplay now (or DF) was worse than SL. If anything, early expansions (classic, tbc, wotlk, cata as an example) had worse gameplay.
Every time gearing was made too easy people quit early because there is no reason to play. Fun is just not cutting it. People want incentives. Expansions with more grindy gearing had always more people played and that was surely not because the gameplay was somehow more fun.
I quit BfA in S1, which season are you referring to? Where healers could literally go afk, come back and continue healing because nobody died? Or S4 where corruptions were more important than your class?
Well, you still don’t need those weakauras and balancing was always an issue, no? I’d argue Shadowlands was even more broken in that sense, yet still had much more players than DF. So what was different? Was SL more fun than DF? I’d argue no. Was it better balanced? I’d still say no. Did people love Torghast that much and the legendaries system? I’d still say no. Did Shadowlands have more PvP content? I’d still say no.
I’ll never understand that “lacks incentives” phrase.
What does that mean?
I play PvP because I like PvP.
People played PvP in previous expansions solely because it was enganging, skillful and fun.
I also mean PvP as a whole, as in world pvp, which completely vanished.
So yeah, if PvP was as good as before, it would be played considerably more.
Or not; the people who loved PvP and weren’t whiny casuals aren’t playing anymore, so if there’s no reward for existing people won’t care.
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It means that people need a reason to play. Not just “fun”. It was proven, several times, that fun is simply is not cutting it. So far the highest participation was in expansions that were actually grindy.
Do you play tho?
This was never the case, especially the more you go back in expansions. On top of that were the incentives much better. (speaking especially of every expansion until cata) You couldn’t just get full honor gear in one day. The power difference between a fresh max level and a veteran was on another level.
In DF I had no reason to queue. I get my conquest and that’s it. Why should I climb my rating? What’s the point? Some random title that’s literally irrelevant, meanwhile everyone has turned titles off anyway? 
This kind of incentive is outdated, boring and useless.
PvP got better. If you think otherwise, then please, let me know how Shadowlands PvP was better than DF.
The open world pvp just became irrelevant because we got flying and there is no reason to fight each other in the open world.
How long have you been playing? I can remember a time where people did join BGs because it was engaging, skillful and fun. I used to queue to get 25-0s on the board, without any gear incentive.
People used to play to get better at their class, and to enjoy the competition. If you play to get geared, then you’re playing for the wrong reason, and, then, yeah, you get bored easily.
Since TBC on and off.
When was it? Because BGs were never engaging or skillful. If anything, the only time you can remember when people were joining BGs, was in early expansions, when you actually had to do it in order to get gear.
Because rerolling was hard and gear actually mattered? Yes, I agree. Every single expansion (wod, legion, df as example) where getting gear was made easy, most people didn’t even bother to learn a class, rerolled all the time and quit. These expansions had always a vey low PvP participation. For a reason.
It’s a MMORPG, this is literally one of the main reasons. If you tell the majority that they are playing a MMORPG wrong, maybe bring back what actually makes a MMORPG, instead of changing the definition of the genre?
“It means that people need a reason to play. Not just “fun”. It was proven, several times, that fun is simply is not cutting it. So far the highest participation was in expansions that were actually grindy.”
Is that why the older expansions were played more, and why they’re still quite prevalent? For sure.
People never needed a reason to pvp, you’re either not actually a long time fan, making you seem like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
You would do pvp and be able to buy: gear, just to do more pvp, and huh, a mount or two.
No no, that’s it.
Seems like it wasn’t that much of an incentive and yet it keeps a group of people active; if wpvp played a role or not and the reasons behind them, that’s another story.
“Do you play tho?”
Yes, probably a lot more than you.
I played on privates for several years, so yes.
Oh so it didn’t lack incentives. Uh uh.
TO PLAY THE GAME? XD
What’s the incentive of getting higher lvl gear? Not dying as fast? What you’re saying makes ABSOLUTELY no sense.
Because the pro scene is just if not more active than it was before right?
Because classes lacking identity and being more the same really makes things better didn’t it?
It feels like im talking with someone with 0 experience.
You sure those 10k achievement points are yours??
You are obviously are new to playing video games or completely delusional. You always need incentives, “playing for fun” simply does not cut it. WoW exists for around 20 years, we have seen different systems in place and EVERY SINGLE TIME the gear was easy to get, we had the LOWEST participation. That’s a historical fact. Denying this just makes you look stupid.
Who are these “pro players” from the scene you are talking about? All the pros are still playing, that’s the point. In Shadowlands you had more casual players, not veterans… man… like… do you even play the game?
Ok this proves to me how you are obviously not playing the game at all lmao… Classes lack identity like… dude… are you on drugs or something?
The irony… you couldn’t prove more being clueless and then you have the audacity to throw that at me? lmao… check yourself.
Damn, I found another forum sage who’s IQ wouldn’t be enough to complete a puzzle.
What incentives you absolute poser?
Atleast try to engage on what im saying.
It was solely gear to get better and kill more people up to Cata where you could finally mog.
The level of mental gymnastics you’re doing would put some narcissists to shame, HOLY.
2 Years of expansions where you can get 3 sets and weapons tops… JUST TO QUEUE AND KILL MORE PEOPLE.
I’ll let you know what numbers (as in game popularity is) and then you can come back to me once you know what that is.
Worst troll.
Bought account LMFAOOOOOO
Like…??? And you dare to call me a troll? Stoopid.
We had incentives where climbing for rating allowed you to get conquest pieces which you otherwise could not get. In Shadowlands it was the entire gear having an upgrade. The moment people lose this goal, we experienced HUGE participation drops. It’s a historical fact, what exactly don’t you understand?
I am fine seeing other incentives, but so far we didn’t have anything else that made people play. I am talking about systems we had in place and participation based on facts, unlike you making up random non sense.
Ye I am waiting… good luck with that.
Imagine calling me a troll and claiming I bought this account on your new poop account. The irony…
Tell me how pEvoker, Rdruid, Disc and Rsham have zero identity and are the same. I am really curious. Go ahead, do your mental gymnastics.
No.
I’ll get the rewards I want and then not play more pvp except when bored and have nothing else to do.
Just doing BGs on my druid tilted me to no end.
Open up on a mage. Get coiled instantly and feared. Trinket it. Get back on mage. Stunned. Stunned. Mage blinks away, I charge. Gripped. Chains of ice. Shift. Chains of ice. Shift. Chains of ice. Shift. Gripped. Switch to dk instead…
He’s blood.
Screw this. Manage to get to a warlock. Stunned. Stunned. Stunned. Coil. Fear. Fear. Fear. Gripped out of range from charging back.
Left the bg.
This isn’t fun at all.
The only class I decided to stick for now is MM, cause it gives me slower and more strategic gameplay in PvP.
The other specs and classes I’ve tried - just feels like always in hurry to press all procs in time and don’t have time to think and do something more than pve rotation.
huh… what, i thought this was just a game ?