maybe, maybe i’m frustrating them because they were hoping for a good fight, I’m not going to pretend to know some one’s motives.
but just as well there were decent folk there and not so decent folk there.
afaik most people are just as happy to dab on someone and gain as well as having a gentleman’s duel
don’t know what your point is.
I came to AD - or rather Sha’tar, it’s where I started roleplaying and later moved to AD - after I had developed an interest in RP.
I didn’t come here expecting to find guilds to raid with and maybe picking up interest in RP later. I would choose any other realm for that. And I did, infact. The realm I started on was a PvP realm.
However, I didn’t enjoy PvP, so I was mainly a PvEr on a PvP realm.
Did I get ganked? Yes.
Did I hate it? I did, as did many others.
But did I complain about people wanting to PvP on a -PvP- realm? No, because that’s what the realm was for.
I could have moved to any other realm, but I chose not to. To complain of PvP happening then would have been asinine, when it was a PvP realm. PvE realms wouldn’t have this issue, because you weren’t automatically toggled to PvP state, so you could quest in peace.
RP realms don’t have this luxury. There is no “toggle RP-Mode”. Moderation is non-existant nowadays and much of the work of any sort of rule enforcement is left to the player themselves, but even then there’s not much we can do, other than try to appeal to people’s senses and when that doesn’t work, report and move on.
If a PvP realm saw a large influx of sudden PvE players, much of the PvP interaction on the realm would eventually die out and they would move to greener pastures, to another PvP realm.
Same thing would happen if PvE realm saw a lot of PvPers suddenly.
AD, us roleplayers, don’t have this luxury. AD is the only remaining active RP realm and if people who have no interest in RP, PvErs and PvPers alike, start to populate this realm, AD will eventually seize to exist as a RP realm. There will be no greener pastures to move to, because this is all that remains.
Trying to understand things from this point of view, and it should not come as a surprise that we are very adamant in guarding AD from those who have no interest whatsoever in roleplay. People can develop interest in roleplay much later sure, but it shouldn’t take 20 max level characters on an RP realm for that to happen. I sure didn’t develop one with PvP.
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Now this, is great and well fleshed out, and I dare ask you Woebloom… is this what you mean to express?
I belive this to be much needed in this conversation.
Thank you.
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TL;DR :
Yes
Elaborated:
In all honesty everything I have said has already been said previously in this thread. Ignul above took the time to lay it all out much more eloquently. I’m not afraid to admit, that sometimes I struggle to find the correct words and will hyper-focus on attempting to as closely and accurately convey my thoughts.
But Liaylah was quick to respond and we had essentially a good conversation.
I hope everything is more clear to yourself, sir Lorruss
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Worry not about such, you are not alone about that.
I too had the impression that this have been a very good conversation, indeed!
I’m glad to see that, cheers!
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I am sorry that my attitude may fuel people’s fear that the realm is going to dilute. It’s not my intention to make the roleplay become a silent minority on this realm 
yes the conversation was pleasant.
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Only if RP and non-RPers are mutually exclusive. Which, really, are not.
100 RPers and 50 non-RPers makes a hundred RPers.
100 RPers and 200 non-RPers still makes a hundred RPers. The community isn’t harmed.
Until it is. If there’s no opportunity to RP in major hubs because they’re occupied by the OOCers, if the RP is constantly interrupted, the server will die like the rest. And we can’t allow it. So how about you stop defending what should not be defended?
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It won’t be.
There are few non-sanctionable means that nonRPers can use against role-players, and they wouldn’t be very effective either.
Also, I’d like to say that “we could be harmed one day therefore we should strike first” argument sounds (and is) awful.
It’s can’t be interrupted. And arguably it’s incorrect because as I said, RPers and nonRPers share the city just fine. Right now there are plenty of non-RPers in Stormwind and if their number increases they will remain in the same points of interest rather than expand where they have no reason to go.
Non-RPers have shared the realm with us since Classic. This propaganda that they are a threat has been going on for atleast 3-4 years and still no real harm has been done to the RP community. Not a single guild left the server, nothing collapsed [because of non-RPers]. In the meantime, the RP community suffers for other reasons. This is the evidence. These are the facts we have.
This weird defensive approach is simply false and makes the community worse because it reinforces the idea that by being obnoxious and toxic you will improve the server and “remove/reduce the threat”.
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It is harmed because the RPing majority becomes an RPing minority in their own realm. The none-RPers become the main voice and community and as Linma stated; the former hubs (which are commonly cities/capitals) are suddenly filled with none-RPers even though they’re on a RP realm.
ALSO don’t you think it’s immersion breaking for the RPers to see loads of none-RPers running around? Especially if the none RPers are the majority - it is extremely likely they won’t care for RP courtesy.
Furthermore on this point, AD is an RP majority yet there are still people who chat in /s. Yes, in a less RP intensive spot (orgrimmar valley of strength) but it’s still breaking the common courtesies.
An OOC hub is fine, we need a place to not be IC and do content if our characters would lorewise never be there (oribos for example) and we can of course be OOC in places like Orgrimmar but when the majority of the people in a RP-hotspot-city aren’t RPing… Do you at least understand why this is a problem for RPers?
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Do we get a jury who will decide if your RP is RP enough to validate a spot on Argent Dawn? Is the RP standard super hardcore RP? Or is the standard loose quirky RP?
If you were on this actual server instead of classic one, you’d have noticed that we talk of people that don’t do any RP at all. They don’t want even to try. They come here to do the same things they can do on absolutely any other realm, ignore the specifics of the server and now they wonder why we don’t appreciate it. Now please, stop trolling and read at least the last several posts.
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That’s a non-problem as long as the RP still happens.
The main voice of what? The server? That wouldn’t be a problem as the RP community of AD has never been the server of AD. The RPers would remain the main voice of the RP community because only they can represent it.
“suddenly”. More like, have always been and that’s why people never role-played in, for example, Trade Quarter.
I think this is a whole different take. First of all, it says absolutely nothing about the danger for all roleplayers that you spoke about above.
Second, I find it petty and entitled. Especially because non-RPers and RPers often don’t share the same space. And when they do (ie. Dalaran community) they manage rather fine. So, not a big deal.
They already are. And yet, as I said, no harm so far.
Tbh I frankly think it’s beyond rude to attempt to regulate what others can and can’t do when it comes to casual /s chat.
Also, I like the idea of using /say for OOC purposes in certain spots such as Trade Quarter, Valley of Strenght or the transmog shop. Role-players do this aswell, mind you. It’s something that is often proof of good vibes among people. If it’s not done close to an RP spot? Absolutely fine.
I do understand that it is quintessentially fake news popularized by a group. I think all the arguments that have been presented in the course of 4 years don’t hold ground when subjected to scrutiny; discussing these arguments have often caused said groups to libel or cause harm to others in an attempt to discredit them rather than tackle the issue as an actual debate. Overall the main result achieved is discouraging honest discussions among roleplayers/contributing to harm people. Furthermore and perhaps more importantly, all these arguments haven’t surpassed the test of time.
Yes, I do understand what you say. I am sure it’s all bollocks.
Thanks for replying so politely and simply just disagreeing with every point I make with no real nuance outside of “I am disagree.”
I won’t even bother doing the same thing to you but all your points are as null as you make mine out to be.
You should actually think about being more respectable.
What do you think I am? Fake news? I’m not a propaganda agent what are you on about?
Everything I say is what I’ve observed by myself and my fellow RPers.
Polite and respectable.
Check your ego.
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I’d give my input about the decline of the Sha’tar but I’m fairly sure like Woebloom I’d get an;
ACKSHUALLLY
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Actually you should give your input.
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Do I have to repost my story about the death of Earthen Ring?
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Didnt you and everyone else who posted this and similar last time just get a blunt response that your stories were irrelevant & or false?
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This is said from a person whose main line of reasoning is that a failure to agree with your argument implies a failure to understand your argument.
There is more to that. But my line of reasoning be is as follows: the arguments have been presented as evidence. if they were as self-evident as you claim, then rational disagreement would be much harder.
We’ve been there already, yes.
Idk. I kinda recall having this discussion. Mind, I was on ER and SWC before migrating to AD and non-RPers had nothing to do with its decline.