I don’t know you well, but you seem to have a knack for it based on the few interactions we had.
The entire concept of WOW druids is a retcon. Lore suffers a lot of gymnastics for the sake of gameplay and especially the Horde.
I don’t know you well, but you seem to have a knack for it based on the few interactions we had.
The entire concept of WOW druids is a retcon. Lore suffers a lot of gymnastics for the sake of gameplay and especially the Horde.
Well you know being a two factions game…they had to “change” and “fix” some of the druidic lore of the Night Elves to the Tauren and then other Horde races…it’s just how it works considering how the lore of the game developed during the years…
but don’t think this didn’t happen for the Night Elves too…in the original lore of Warcraft 2, the High Elves were the ones who had not just mages, but druids (who built the runestones as the WC2 manual said) and who were much, much more in common with nature (I don’t think the Sunwell is actually even mentioned in WC2, just that the High Elves had a magical barrier over Silvermoon), not just the druidic theme was removed but also the ranger one were much stronger in Quel’thalas back then, as Rangers were not just in touch with their animals, but also with the trees and forests of Quel’thalas, they could use nature magic to heal themselves
Also this lore had to be changed and removed in Warcraft 3 in order for a new race, the Night Elves, to be introduced in the world (so the High Elves canonically lost their druids, the Runestone were made by mages, the Sunwell had to be introduced, their dependance and addiction to arcane magic had to be introduced, the ranger/archer/hunter theme shifted to the Night Elves for the most part, then since the Night Elves were cool and powerful, Metzen thought that the High Elves were too boring and bland, so they had to make them cool too and create new lore to renaming them into Blood Elves after a big loss of population, then remove them from the Alliance, later making them play with demons and forbidden powers, etc etc…)
so basically the entire High Elven lore had to be changed and fixed after WC2 in favour of Night Elves…so don’t complain too much if now they have to do the same with the Horde races who are druids or use Kaldorei themes anyway please
Nicely pointed out, now I don’t know them well, but Tyrandé seems to have a knack for picking and choosing wich parts are ‘retcons’ and wich parts of the lore are horrible writing, based on the few interactions we had.
Oh yes, especially the Hurde… /
I mean going by your definition of ‘retcons’.
Aside from as Hellaynnea pointing out pretty much the entire Night Elf race;
Alliance (Human, Dwarf, Gnome) Warlocks ? How about Alliance Deathknights?
Stormwind city, rebuilt in record time with surplus added population, amongst those numbers of High Elves and Dwarves?
Dwarven Paladins and priests??
Draenei?
Draenei Shaman??
Draenei PALADINS??
Night Elf mages(yet people like you take issues with tauren druids lol)
Night Elf Male Priests and Warriors.
Night Elf female Druids(Female guardian of Ghan’ir or ArchDruids??)
The Ancients(Or Wild Gods) themselves and being tied to Night Elves, they weren’t even mentioned in WC3 afaik.
Dark Iron Dwarves ( If I recall correctly Grim Batol was attacked and defiled by the old Horde’s warlocks originally)
Void Elves.
Worgen.
Worgen/ Kul’Tiran = Human Druids.
Gnome priests.
Human Shaman (Kul’tiran).
Jaina Proudmoore being the most powerfull Mage( Oh hi…Khadgar/ High Elves)
I’m sure I missed allot of other ‘gymnastics’ for the sake of gameplay…and the Alliance.
Them and Nightborne Warlocks are two of the biggest race/class combos that simply shouldn’t be playable.
Oh - and Tauren Priests.
I’m sure they only put Nightborne Warlocks in the game, so then they could say “Look - Night Elves can also use green fire and summon demons.”
Personally, I’d rather have had Nightborne Druids and leave the Thalassian Elves to have Warlocks and Darnassian Elves to have Druids.
Well I totally I agree with most of the points you have made, I was just exaggerating an joking albeit I am bitter. I will also apologize if I offended you.
I’ll restate my point in a more respectful manner, there are so many lore abominations that have been created for the sake of gameplay which sucks.
Btw what I meant here is the concept of Sunfire/starfire etc is not how druids were conceived. You have to look at WC3 and War of the Ancients to get an idea what druids were, using roots/vines/winds/storms/ etc… WOW retcon it and gave them abilities that belong to the priest of Elune namely POTM’s ultimate Starfall.
I still think Tauren Paladins/Priests are horrible, Gnome priests are also a contradiction to what they stand for…
Well, yeah…I mean everyone was so busy hating on Tauren ‘Paladins’…Night Elf Mage crept by without much notice it seems…even though it undermines one of the main pillars of what makes the Kal’dorei what they are, they chose to abstain and outlaw the arcane, because it already brought so much grief and loss to them in the past, but come Cataclysm……oh hey, that group of 12 or so ‘Highborne survivors’ that magically aren’t dead or Naga/ Satyr are still around in ol’Eldre Thalas and BAM Night Elf mage - Which one will be the new Aszhara?
As for the Nightborne, I get that yes, almost the Whole city and allot of people just went up in hellfire…but let’s do it, it looks cool - Although on the other hand, it may be simple pragmatism, similar to the Blood Elves. Rejoin your people since, Elisande’s vision of the future was wrong(phew) and use this knowledge to help make amends for the wrong we did fighting on her side.
As for Tauren priests/ Sunwalkers…I hate to be that guy but! Had someone asked me about my preference come Cataclysm, I would’ve vehemently been against it, but just like the Night Elf mage, the genie is out of the bottle. I don’t really mind them now, they weren’t as harmfull to the race’s lore as the Night Elf mage was, and even that I’ve come to live with (I just don’t want to see the Night Elves turn into a boring copy of other races like Nightborne and Blood Elves, who handle this waaay beter), nature and savagery are the Night Elves traits, I’m all up for it staying that way - So I also don’t want the Night Elves new hometown to be some grand palace or city like Suramar or Silvermoon.
Ah, no worries, I’ve read much, much worse and for the record, I do get you, I really do, we may not Always agree, but I do get where you are coming from.
If you’re bitter, well, truth be told, I think we’re both rather disgruntled than bitter with how certain things are, it’s okay to be critical about something you love.
Your main peeve is the Night Elves Original lore and characteristics being watered down, mostly due to game mechanics, but from my side, the Tauren were never really developed, not even come Vanilla WoW, were the Horde’s side of things was very much neglected and allot of stuff was shoehorned in…like Druidism, at the cost of Night Elf lore, I mean Blizzard could have gone other routes, wich I wish they had, but we can’t change that now.
So indeed, the Druids in WoW are a far cry from the originals from WC3, I don’t think it could’ve been helped much though, what they could have done, and I hope they’ll do, is make Race/Class combos more distinct, I think that’ll atleast right some of the peeves some people have ;
Tauren ‘Paladins’ not being ‘Paladins’ aside from a class name.
Tauren ‘Priests’ are technically not ‘Priests’ like Humans have them, who are nothing like the Priests the Night Elves have, if they would take time to visually change the spells and give them more flavourfull names, depending on your race/class combo, it would help, I still remember how each priest had their own special signature spell in Vanilla, and Blood Knights use to have their own seal, as opposed to their Alliance counter parts.
Note for Tauren priests, while I don’t have a big dislike for them, as they don’t really destroy any tauren lore, I do hate how their tekst is basiclly ‘May the Light be with you’, there’s the problem, Tauren had little class choice, and I get that they wanted to give us more options, I’m personally thankfull for that, but the execution on both classes good have been done sooo much beter.
The concept of Sunfire and Solar based spells is not a retcon, but more like an addition, that came from the Tauren practicing Druidism again, but yes, going from naturelike stuff like roots and thunderstorms to calling down the Light of the Sun or the Stars to fall from the heavens…while that isn’t so far out in other game universes’ Druidism, in the case of WoW it was certainly a new stretch or turn of skills.
It was noticed…by the night elf fanbase, funnily enough.
I was part of the many night elf vocals who were opposed to the idea. It was a feel of trying to make the race like Blood Elves, but on the Alliance.
You’d actually be surprised how many Night Elf fans hate the idea of having “Mages.” I suppose the feel of being distinct from the other Elven race/s was something they (I, as well) wanted to uphold.
I’d have been happy just for Blood Elves to get Warriors in Cataclysm as well as the other race/class combos.
Night Elves didn’t need anything new.
Nightborne would have worked better as Druids.
I’m a fan of keeping all things “fel” with the Thalassian Elves and all things “nature” with the Darnassian Elves (Except Demon Hunters, obviously). Nightborne Druids work, as they can be an “arcane-like” druid, as we actively see Nightborne Botanists wielding the arcane to cleanse the plant and tree-life around the Nighthold.
Not to exclude the other races - I’m just talking about the Elves here.
I have to disagree.
What could have been a good build-up of Tauren Druidic lore surrounding Hyjal and the Firelands and maybe, something for them in Deepholm as Horde-specific envoys, was made into a Paladin/Priest which has made them into Blood Elf-Holy Light sidekicks and devoted to the Light.
They should have kept Aponi as a Druid and expand on that. Not make her a Flame Druid - but expand on her story around Hyjal and Deepholm. Perhaps make her the main Druid Ambassador between the ER and the CC.
I am a bit surprised if true, because I haven’t seen it, or let’s just say ‘I don’t recall’ any major posts about it.
Thing is I mostly check here and here we used to have this one passionate Night Elf poster that would write entire essays about How the Night Elves should be more like the old empire and the greatest mages etc, but also the greatest druids.
So basicly masters of everything and not lose a thing, I suppose I got blinded by that.
Well, that’s your opinion, mine is different, the Nightborne are the left over part of ancient Night Elf society, wich dealt in the arcane, I don’t really like the idea of a ‘arcane based’ Druid’, That isn’t really a Druid in my opinion.
Same as that idea that sometimes turns up about Gnome Druids - who would then be ‘mechanical’ versions of druids, I just can’t bring myself to like it.
But as I wrote earlier, I was against Tauren Paladins and Priests too from the start, untill I came to accept it. So, depending on execution, I might change my opinion on ‘Shal’dorei Druids’ too, but currently, no, as in just my opinion, I wouldn’t want to see them, nor any new particulair race/ class combo after Cataclym’s adds.
Wich is fine!
But to note, we had Hamuul Runetotem for our tauren druid lore surrounding Hyjal and the Firelands, and Blizzard did a good job, with him. He’s the Tauren’s Archdruid, would’ve not been right to suddenly put Aponi Brightmane there(who btw was a Brave(Warrior), before she became the first Sunwalker), while we had Hamuul collecting dust since vanilla.
The tauren Sunwalkers or Seers were also Never ‘Blood Elf-Holy Light sidekicks’ or even devoted to the Light…the Original point was they channeled the light of An’she, the Sun, not the ‘Light’ - That awfull trash came with Legion’s paladin order hall story and I do hope it gets lost and forgotten.
The Tauren’s main Druid ambassador and tie to the CC is Archdruid Hamuul Runetotem.
If they confirm that An’she is a unique god and is not just the Light, then yes it should be playable.
He was shouted down by many Night Elf posters.
In fact, a sizable force of dedicated Night Elf posters were and still are against him. Their arguments, like mine, are “They didn’t need arcane magic to defend their lands during the Long Vigil or Third War.”
I do remember a few Night Elf warrior and Night Elf hunter posters, that were against him.
He still does make his posts, but he and his friend have gone far more aggressive in their approach now. To the stage where if you don’t like night elf mages, they don’t truly play night elves.
I get that, but we have seen far more friendly Nightborne “Druid-like-folk” than we have seen Nightborne Warlock folks.
Again, I just think Blizzard wanted a night elf-race to weave green fel magic and summon demons because -rule of cool-.
Night Elf Priests weren’t supposed to be for the Light either, but look what happened there.
Night Elf Priestess of Elune, become a Paladin of the Holy Light and Aponi is all smiles and cheering.
Clearly, we have room for more, since the majority of Tauren Druids seem to have gone to the Holy Light.
Your asking a big “if.”
Not even Elune is different from the Light, these days, since all Night Elves are cheering and swapping faiths.
Night elves not getting unique effects (and in my opinion trolls too, but again, we don’t know much about the healer loa) is a disgrace. I might be a bit hangover rn but night elven priests make me puke anyway.
I’m a Horde Night elf priest - what do I do for you? Make you puke…good, I’m doing my job
“They see me rollin’, they hatin’”
Nightborne priests only make me uncomfortable. And if you are a shadow priest, then I don’t care at all.
Sorry - Missed this, but I know I agree, 100%.
It’s not a slander to call the night elves “savage.” Indeed, it’s unique. The Night Elves are the first Elves that I saw in W3, that were “savage” and “brutal.” They weren’t softy-softy, elegant warrior-women. They were savages. Glaives out, bows drawn, arrows knocked…shots fired (Pun intended.)
I play a Night Elf Warrior (with black eyes), Night Elf Death Knight, because I love a mixture of savage and controversial and Night Elf Druid (because I want to look good and nelf druids are great) and all three resemble a side of “savage” and “ferocious.”
I also don’t know how belf/draenei/lf draenei shadows priests, or mag’har/void elf holy priests make sense.
Isn’t studying void magic forbidden for blood elves? Or is it only some kind of retcon so that void elves can exist? Also why on earth would a lightforged be a shadow priest? Untill they add some kind of light skin for belf/dranei shadow priests they will make no sense.
Most Blood Elf priests would be holy in lore , however the ones who are shadow priests must stay away from the Sunwell, but they are not banished from Quel’thalas…the Void Elves were banished because they didn’t accept the fact that Rommath said the Void was dangerous for the Sunwell. Blood Elf shadow priests who still use the Void as a weapon without studying and delving into it are not banished as far as we know.
Well Mag’har might take pleasure to cast/use the Light in combat, especially when fighting against (Lightforged) Draenei it’s like an insult against the Draenei probably
And Void Elves using the Light is a bit of a contradiction, but it probably works just like the Forsaken…they are hurted A LOT in the process of using/calling the Light, but if they have the willpower, they can still cast it, but it will be very painful…an entire life of pain and torture for both Forsaken and Void Elves holy priests essentially as they are undead/void creatures more than elves now
For Draenei, I believe the Aucheani could be the answer to the Draenei wielding shadow magic.
Even in the MU and AU, when we see Aucheani Priests, they always use shadow magic.
Lightforged - god knows, but maybe with X’era’s zealous beliefs gone, perhaps some took an interest in what Alleria was studying…? I’m grasping at straws, I admit that.
Void Elf warlocks might be a bit weird to explain too…remember the demons of the Legion hate the Void and the Void Lords and they want to kill everyone and destroy every planet so the Void Lords cannot enter in the universe anymore.
So if a Void Elf summons a demon, the demon should be afraid that a void creature (even if looking like an elf) is summoning the demon to advance the cause of the Void Lords (summoned demons wouldn’t know the Void Elves fight against the Old Gods and the Void in general too), so the demon would just attack and it would be very hard to control it, especially if it’s powerful.
Also a character that use both Void AND Fel together is a bit of a Mary Sue honestly…Void can already make you crazy, but if you add the Fel to it too?? It’s impossible not to get mad…probably Prince Kael’thas would agree to this too, and he wasn’t even Void corrupted.
Edit- unless the Void Elves summon a …Voidwalker, I guess
I love Lukou, the Loa of healing and respite, very much and would love to see/learn more about her.
She is such a pleasant exception from the usually rather warlike Loa, she literally rains positive energy from the skies to heal her allies! She is also said to be the one who might be the power behind troll regeneration.
Unfortunately this is all from the RPG and therefore non-canon- but I revere her anyway
I’ve just killed a few amathet sun priests and they we using abilities like solar wrath and not Light abilities
High Commander Kamses on the other hand said something like “thank the Light!” so It’s a bit confusing