Uh oh, did I do an oopsie? I stand by what I said though, returning any character to the realm of the living from the Shadowlands is lame and should not happen.
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I’ve read both yours responses and Northgraves. Nothing in his response indicated that he was toxic or unpleasant in any manner.
I find more concerning the condescending tone that comes from you when you use sentences like
Or implying that I have problems with reading.
I asked a specific question- where do you think you were treated offensively. But I didn’t get an answer and instead I got insinuation that I am the one who has issues and is part of the problem.
Look, there are people on the forums who are indeed mean, are triggering on purpose, and can write 
comments just to spite others.
I’ve read his replies to you and nothing like that was directed to you, quite the contrary, you received quite a lengthy response to why he thought it was a bad idea.
And tbh I agree with him. Resurrecting the entire population is a really really bad idea. It could be nothing but a return to the status quo, it would remove the stakes, and it would upset a larger portion of players who play races that didn’t get preferential treatment, it would make everything meaningless and many more.
I believe writers should’ve focused on how to write nelves after this disaster, give them a proper edge maybe. Give them a new Home, but located elsewhere to highlight that a new era began for them.
As for the Main topic (because it was derailed to nelf stuff again)
I haven’t seen anything that indicated that Turalyon is going the path of the villain. Jaina was even spared villain bat despite the fact she was ready for it 3 times already. And nothing comparable was given to Turalyon, but I guess he cannot pull the Sad puppy eyes and say “I’m a good boy now, I’m just saaaad” and get away from stuff.
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I haven’t read it myself but I heard in one of the new books he was using the Light on civilians for shall we call it ‘Enhanced Interrogation’ techniques? Though I don’t think this will lead to him being a villain it would be a villainous act (No, your motivations do not wash out the villain it is the actions that make you a hero or villain not the intent.) I think he might tread the line a little bit if we do have Yrel come through with an army and then realize how far he fell/how close he came to falling.
It might serve to weaken him as a source of doubt and therefore his connection to the light as he loses faith, Hesitates when he needs to take actions and gives him a flaw to write a story around but an outright Villain I can’t see it.
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Just for comparising.
Each time Sylvanas did something that was truely evil, it was mostly relativated and seen as justified in some weired way of protecting her people or so. I mean we still have apologists who straight out relativate genocide. (Which I really can’t grasp at all, even though it is fiction, it is still a horrible deed that has basically no match)
I wonder why that same standard is not helt for Turalyon and Alleria and why it is so eagerly tried to write some inherent valianousy into them for this one scene.
I mean if we take a paladin as the piller of right and rightousness who can and will never do an evil deed (though we have to discuss if interrogation and inquisition is evil in their perspective) we might have a discussion hook, but Paladins in WOW don’t seem to follow that hollow high fantasy route. They are indeed more grey and free in their actions than for example laweful good D&D Paladins.
Her issue isnt the lack of info she received, just the way it was put into comment.
And I agree there will be people here that you wont meet eye to eye for many different reasons and you will learn to filter them down slowly down, Liira. But one thing - anyone losing their cool in arguement means that it’s their own loss either in - argumentation, behaviour and has nothing to do with you.
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Personally I did not pay any attention to the lore from Cata days till Shadowlands and did not attempt to talk to people on any “English” forums, so my experience is limited. But I do not see the EU-EN story forums as anything bad actually. It looks like we have mostly nice and chill discussion about different events and interpretations of the events. Not without accidents, of course, but it is nowhere near as bad as it was described to me.
Actually if the content of the recent in-game book will turn out to be true and Lotraxion played them both, that might kick him rather hard, because it was Turalyon who supported Alleria over Xe’ra in her search of the void.
IMO she should share the power with Sylvanas. Then risking to die is not a bug, but a feature.
Since the Nightwarrior is a religous act of devotion and a deep connection to Elune, it would actually be hereticly.
I can forsee severall outcomes. The other outcome might be that NE spirits empowered with the Night Warriors power will then whips down the Jailer or so.
As Blizzard currently seem to like mirroring stuff it would be a suitable end to the story arc and woudl resemble the WC3 story of NEs where they aswell destroyed the Worldtree and whisped down Archimonde.
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Because people note that most characters that act that way in the story, always end up paying for it afterwards.
And people will take this sign, as a narrative flag to be planted atop the growing mount that hints at certain plot direction. One that adds on an increasingly big pile of stuff that includes other Light users acting in a shady way.
Purely meta reasoning, of course. But yeah, the telltale signs are there.
Still, i see it as a possibility, not as a certainty. And i’m sure most think that way.
What I mean is:
If Sylvanas, Garrosh whoever else does something not just shady but pure and outright evil, it is allways apologized by some fans.
But as soon as an Alliance character does something that is not perfectly good, forgiving and selfless, the very same people point with their fingers on it marking it as unforgiveble evil.
I don’t like this double standard. That is my issue.
Not possinle story directions. I personally would love to see Turalyon abusing his power and start a crusade at the Horde even though a peace treaty has been signed and directly, unprovoked violating it, while Tyrande and Genn joining the fray.
I really would like to see the story being reversed at this point and in my opinion after Teldrassil, like I wrote in a different thread, it will be extremely hard, no matter what the Alliance does, for it to be seen as evil. Mostly as retribution or vengence.
So in orde rfor the Horde to lose its Legion or Scourge like status, they are up for a FEW unprovoked attacks where they have to lose a lot in order to again feel pity for them.
In my opinion of course. Blizzard has written the Horde like the Demon-Horde and it will take at the very minimum a internation camp like scenario for the whole horde for them to become the noble missunderstood savages again who just want to live their lives.
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Why would you care about what fans say or argue?
It’s really simple: the story indeed ended up punishing said behaviour.
Regarding what I personally think regarding the matter:
I think that the story is being driven in a rather simplistic way that somehow relies on the application of moral standards that border on stupidity and incongruence.
If you are to have races such as ecoterrorist elves, Orcs, or undead, it becomes rather idiotic to expect either to behave under the same moral rules as our real life standards.
Even by our own standards, certain stances regarding warfare are shown idiotic ingame.
You don’t sacrifice your own people’s well-being for the sake of morality. You don’t gamble on the enemies mercy by sabotaging the war effort of your own allies.
And yes, war may at some times require characters to get “dirty” with stuff like that borders on civilian targetting, torture, and WMDs.
It’s not about being “grimdark”. It’s about being realistic.
I personally defended several stances that characters like Garrosh and Sylvanas had throughout the years, mainly because said actions sometimes fell under the category of doing stuff that i would expect as usual/logical given a War context.
I’m personally not bothered about Turalyon torturing civilians. Mainly because i acknowledge that these sort of actions are realistic in a setting that has him dealing with such a dire menace such as Sylvanas.
But yeah, i’ll point out that in Blizzard’s mind, these sort of behaviours are often punished by the story. And it’s less about them being bad per se, and more about the story trying to paint a distorted portrayal regarding how reality works.
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I think you are going to find this on both Alliance and Horde the problem as I see it is that Horde have been given more villains so the Alliance really hasn’t had a chance to have it’s apologists yet, the only thing that comes to mind right now are those who defend Jaina’s actions in Dalaran.
I mean isn’t this thread in itself asking for an Alliance Character not to act like a villain kind of a double standard? Why is it okay for the writer to warp Sylvanas to do evil for the sake of the story but not Turalyon?
But I digress anyway, the point I’m trying to make is those who apologize for Sylvanas will be the first to point at Turalyon and declare him the new prime evil and those same who point at Sylvanas will likely be the first in line to defend him. Both sides will have their apologists.
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I am sure it probably would be, yes. But as you have saide, we have not yet ever have a chance to see if it would be the case.
And as it stands now … it will be very hard after how high the bar has been set by the Horde, to picture the Alliance as evil no matter what they do.
As I have said it would probably take severall evil acts in a row till you reach the point where people can say “hey enough is enough allready this is no longer justified”
This is what I mean. It is just hard currently for this to be seen as evil under the current circumstances.
The playing field is not even at this point.
Well he was doing it back in RTS, it’s nothing new. He was using light to torture orcs, and for years he was part of the Lightforged Draenei who also do exactly that.
Lector Enaara, anyone?
But hilariously enough, after they interrogated the people they healed them. xD
So for now I think it’s too early to tell.
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Well because they didn’t tortoure out of pure joy but as a last ressort after the civilians were not cooperating and were even acting up.
Though from a modern point of view absolutely disgusting behaviour and by no means justified.
I also fail to see the nessecity in that scene for it. Sure teh civillians knew something but it wasn’t timely critical live/death situation that would have justified such harsh deeds.
So yes in my opinion this was an evil act but appearently within the boundries of a paladin.
Which is what I tried to point out wether this would actually be considered evil within a society or not.
It is evil to us, but as Zarao said above. WoW has plenty of playable races that has different understanding of morality, and what might appear as evil to audience doesn’t have to be evil to said fantasy character.
And considering that Turalyong was doing exact same thing before and is part of the faction that is quite extreme in their crusade doesn’t necessary mean he will be villain batted.
I’d say Jaina had more times where she could’ve become villain
- She wanted to drown entire Orgrimmar
- she wanted to dismantle the Horde, after Horde put down right in front of her eyes the Warchief that was causing all the trouble
- she was the one who pressured attack on Rastakhan and made everything in her power so he won’t be saved. If they’d blow up just the ships it wouldn’t be that big issue, but she shown herself in the cinematic as if she was some sort of punisher.
And yet she is prancing around acting like a good girl again.
This is why I am sceptical that something happens to Turalyon, at least anywhere soon.
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Well regarding your list:
Firstly she wanted but didn’t there is a difference still. Attemped murder is different from actual murder.
But of course drowning Orgrimmar would have been absolutely the same as it was done with Teldrassil.
Dismanteling the Horde is fine by me. Firstly it is directed at an organisation not at people. Secondly a very natural and in my opinion perfect way to stoy future wars wthout affecting the civillians and cultures.
The attack on Rastakhan was weired in my opinion. But one could argue the Idea was great. Get the head of a city but spare teh civillians and even the armies as best as it could be. It just failed misarbly.
The idea was to take Ratakhan prisoner, have the Zandalari stay out of teh conflict and after that would probably been set free again.
Though it failed.
So I fail to see where she was wrong in the second two things. If all she was a good girl as her intention were to end the war without killing even more.
There’s a mocking sense if you don’t follow what the main posters say and that isn’t welcome.
Gone are the days where we can pose different ideas and have constructive decisions rather than just saying “you like x character/race, lol that character is a joke!”
I remember I could have a good discussion about stories or races in the game that I didn’t like. No insults were traded, but now…I think this is a society problem. People have ALWAYS got to be right. Being wrong isn’t an option. That outlook creates a toxic atmosphere.
The last creative and good discussion I had on these forums was 2017.
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The funny and also sad part is the fact that if Turalyon dies there won’t be a single significant human paladin left in the entire game.
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Funnyly I allways thought something like that would be the reason Blizzard coulnd’t kill off certain characters because there is no replacement in sight.
Yet they completely obliterated Sylvanas and the Forsaken wis basically no replacement.
Lilliana was introduced like one expansion before and Calias with this one.
So this would be no reason for Blizz to not do it.
Lillian was introduced all the way back in Cataclysm. Calia was introduced in Legion, but was already a fairly known lore character before her first appearance in-game.