Dooms day is coming

PVP Arenas
1

5 Days from now on until Classic WoW release and PvP is still in it’s worst state it has ever been with Season 2 being the worst Season in WoW’s history this season is still heavily influenced by the last season.

So let’s make some presumptions, nothing is proven or justified as fact here (most of it at least) just to give yourself a image how things are working currently in my opinion and how Classic will probably delete the PvP scene of this game until the next patch or even expansion or probably even forever depending.

Let’s take this season as example we’re now roughly in Week 9, Top players haven’t even been able to hit 2800 yet in 3v3 which has never happened before since Season 15. Even with 2v2 having it’s highest particaption and interest for players since ever before the bracket is also dying with every new day dinging and it’s continueing. For now this seems like it’s not a huge thing but let’s get more into detail.

2v2 has only getting interesting because of 3v3 being a dead bracket. Queueing for example at my cr right now 2300 would take up to 4 minutes queue time for a game at duelist rating. probably not even 0,5% of the playerbase has hit 2500 yet in 3v3 which only shows how boring tedious and unskilled (in favor of other comps hugely without any chance to counteract) this game has become especially in 3s. If you try to go high ranked with anything else than RMD you are pretty much just in the gutter having any hopes because even if you just want to hit 2400 and farm gladiator or whatever your goal is you will already be matched against rank 1 players because they’re waiting 15 minutes queue for getting 1 match which they will of course win, because most of them just play super broken comps most classes can’t deal against regardless how you play. (rmpala/rmd - wwdk - wld - double caster) I’d even say its a very bad circle going around classes which ignores completly the logic of bring the player rather than the class.
But because of this, rating is not going up unless rank 1 players are wintrading trolling or just playing for fun at their rating giving other mostly known teams points to rank up so it looks like the ladder is actually moving but in reality it isn’t and I don’t blame them at all as i think they’re well players and actually deserve their spot even with those circumstances. But just to form a quick example.

Going back to 2v2, so because of this issue most players are going to the 2v2 bracket and it has been very succesful this season as I would also say as long proven entilted 2v2 player I never had more queues than ever before and fun (depending how you consider fun for yourself) but me too i am feeling a decline a big decline again i only had last time in Season 2 when i quitted. Players are hating eachother are sniping eachother and what else. But let me tell you a thing, this is fine and it has always been this way since the start of Arenas and probably any other pvp game out there is it good though? who knows probably not but it’s the way it is in WoW PvP. But going back to the core problem players are because of this trying to play 2v2 a lot this season but taking in consider that 2v2 is only balanced around a few top classes which are scissoring themselves with other classes it makes no room for classes which have absolutely no chance to counter other comps (shadow priest/boomkin and casters mainly).

Taking myself as example I play holypala/WW and the only one Comp which can literally beat it is DH/Druid do i think this is okay? No it ISNT same as streamers aka whaazz thinking it’s okay for them to win every game and tilt every other game when they lose because they think they have to win literally by default every game and yes even players like him are doing mistakes most people don’t see it and I don’t want to go more into the backseat gaming but this are points which make 2v2 cancerous and not a viable option at all compared to 3v3 because you don’t win based on skill anymore you win because of your comp and unfortunately it has always been this way. (example one game we got completly outplayed by assa/disc in 2v2 and it didn’t matter at all because of the brokenness of a comp against them and this is sad and very troubling)

But pointing it HERE out now once again it SHOULDN’T be this way at all. Every class should have a decent win condection against any other comp they play against (coming back to bring the player not the class) even if it’s just 2v2 or 3v3 whatever. And so near to this balance ever came Season 15 in BOTH brackets 2v2 AND 3v3.

This is hurting Player participation very hard very very hard in this season too. and it is also very hard to fix not saying this time it’s easy, because it literally isn’t but if the interest from the side of blizzard is there it is indeed possible if taking a look once again at season 15.

so making a tldr of this: 2v2 and 3v3 are horrible currently and they’re supporting eachother making either bracket more bad since Arenas got released, in this case now and season > 3v3.

2v2 and 3v3 should have a same place in this game at all when things are going it’s current way of dying out as 3v3 currently is.

but coming back more to the thread title -
There is nothing to look to in the future at all in PvP participation has been the lowest it has ever been and it’s declining with everyday since season 2 and classic will turn the lights off completly for any chance of high rated or even mid rated arena gameplay.

There is no communication coming from PvP devs at all problems which are still there since 8.0 hasn’t been fixed. Hotfixes which makes no sense (5% arms/destro buff) and so on showing the carelessness of pvp developers and the given up white flag for pvp in this game until at least the next expansion.

As I don’t see any hopes for any considerable changes in near future players will leave very much the most of the pvp community, no one wants to do pve in order to be competitive in PvP yet many pvp players are doing it currently even if they don’t want to because they have no other choice. And the better choice they can and most will make is leaving the game until at least the next expansion or interesting features about pvp in 8.3.

The end is coming August 27 2019.

22 Likes
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Classic will not only kill PvP but WoW in general.

There is no way that Blizzard can fix the game. They simply have no idea what they are doing and I wouldn’t be suprised if next expansion is going to be even worse.

The only chance this game still has is next expansion being absolutely incredible but we all know it’s not going to happen.
They had to remove literally anything that killed the game with Legion and BfA, completely redo classes or just revert them to what they used to be which they would never do.
They could only go back to the roots in steps expansion after expansion but there is no time for that. This game is doomed.

Why would anyone want to play this garbage anyway?

Even if you don’t like classic which I can understand, they basically confirmed at least TBC which is one of the greatest expansion this game has ever had, followed by the greatest expansion this game has ever had which is WotLK.

That means we pretty much know we’re going to have 6 years of great World of Warcraft.

Classic will kill retail 100% and there are still people who will deny it.

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guess this will be the much needed reason to finally quit wow since I see no future (for me) in classic either.

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For month or so a lot of will try classic, then most of them return to BFA and be glad.
I don’t think new generation players like to lvl up a lot + boring, no…very boring and very long the same quest thats actually 90% of classic gameplay. Plus tones of grind(ninja loots, loot DRAMAs and so on) and time investment if compare with nowdays WoW.

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thing is classic pvp is overated by a lot on these forums, certain classes can 1 shot and then there are specs that are completly useless, and there is no rated pvp at all

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this is probl part of the reason why no there is no competitive pvp, but the fun in classic are the big world battles, feels just really cool if you see 40+ horde vs 40+ alliance

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The point with classic is the rpg element the fun behind the gameplay the classes and most of the time i’d consider myself Classic PvE gameplay with a mix of PvP gameplay a lot and i mean by a lot better than retail rated pvp even if i’d wish that retail pvp would actually be great it isn’t reality.
Meanwhile isn’t classic only for pve players but more for everyone loving world of warcraft and it’s roots.

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Read it.

Read it.

Read it.

Read it.

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As i am overflying those threads they have a couple of things in common with this thread but all in all it has very different concerns than what i’m trying to bring up, if you somehow tried to bash me with that

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Ok I’ll do you a favor and streamline it.
With the constant manipulation of metrics and rating ranges, admins of a rating system can inflate or deflate the rating pool at will.
With the use of rating ranges in matchmaking in this game in particular, and how it starts off limited to a predefined range when you first queue and then expands the search parameters the longer you stay in the queue, it means the amount of these ranges in total in the rating system and how long it takes for the search parameters to expand decides how quick the queue is.
Regardless of how many people are queuing.

For example, let’s say you have 20 different rating ranges. But due to the average wait time taking precedence, and the queue isn’t optimized for the player pool, the wait time then increases. Cut that down in half to 10 rating ranges, it means it’ll go faster.

So long queue times is because the system isn’t calibrated as it should be for the player pool size.
The only way more players helps this, is if the system is calibrated for a larger player pool size. But that doesn’t mean more players = faster queues, it means the calibration of it is what decides the speed.

The more rating ranges in the matchmaking (no, that does not mean the ranges for the titles, it means the ranges used for matchmaking which tend to be much smaller in sizes), the more average the skill level of each matchup will be. In other words, it’ll become more “fair” in terms of chance to win. But it needs more and more players, because each added rating range in the matchmaking takes longer time in the matchmaking process.

While fewer rating ranges in the matchmaking process, it means there’ll be a larger difference of skill and a more unbalanced chance to win in the matchups, but it’ll go faster in the matchmaking process which is better for fewer players.

As for designs of classes etc.

(The accessibility of hosting services also affects the matchmaking speed btw, but that kinda goes without saying. Can’t matchmake if there’s no room on a server to host it after all, so the server configuration might have its own queue at times as well.)

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Not really a fan of classic too but I’m still super hyped because I liked how WoW was back then even though PvP is absolutely terrible.

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I think Classic WoW’s PvP will be very popular – World PvP and subsequently Battlegrounds.
And I think a lot of PvPers will gravitate toward it for the foreseeable future.

I think Retail WoW’s PvP is transitioning into a niche or complimentary activity, rather than being one of the few things you can do in the game (as is the case in Classic WoW and WoW in other early expansions).
Blizzard have introduced so many gameplay activities to the game that PvP isn’t the only choice you’re left with anymore when it isn’t raid night. There’s so much else now. And I think PvP is becoming less popular as a consequence.
I think players are increasingly doing PvP as a complimentary activity, like questing with Warmode on, doing the weekly Battleground/Skirmish event quest, Battleground Brawl, and so on. There are fewer and fewer people who are die-hard, full-time PvPers in the game.

And I think Arena specifically is becoming a niche activity. There’s a dedicated audience for it, but the general playerbase has no interest in it for a myriad of reasons – most of which are not related to any of the dedicated audience’s concerns.

I think in the long term, PvP in WoW will gravitate toward more traditional MMORPG PvP, i.e. World PvP driven by player engagements.

I think we’ll see players do more PvP in the future, and I think we’ll see players do less Arena and Battlegrounds in the future.

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What are you calling PvP in here? Group of 40 ppl killing the leftover of enemy playerbase on the shard who are afking btw?
Since I’d didn’t call that PvP.
There is literally close to none combat engagement between the 2 factions they just ./hello each other and keep on questing

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Player versus Player.

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Like do you get what in trying to say? 40 Vs 2 can’t really be called PvP since it doesn’t have the aspect what it should have
It never had and it never will. Atleast back in classic you could make a group and try to kill the enemy 40 players but atm they rather get invited to another shard and literally do nothing
And idk if you get it but player versus player isn’t in plural form so think about it

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Hi All,

I sometimes read the forums just to see whats going on and i log here and there in to make some gold but i unsubbed two months ago from this game.

So far i feel good for myself and i have no regret of quiting this game.

Chilling with friends and improve my real life while working hard to strife and achieve things in this life is much more meaningful and rewarding to me.

Even tho despite the state of the game atm i always loved to play but instead the developers went wrong directions and don’t listen to feedback to improve the game in a pvp perspective view.

Basicly they destroyed the game “pvp part” wich i participated a lot in till gladiator range 2.7exp ish but bfa sadly did it for me.

I wish u all good luck and think about what matters in live more importantly then so to speak “a game”

grtz 3>

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It should make Blizzard think why people (for now) prefer a 15 year old version of the game over the current one.

And maybe fire all who are responsible for the current itteration and hire all the people back who made classic.

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Ah okay. Sorry.

The oldscool acronym for PvP was PK – Player Killing. For some reason it went out of fashion with the emergence of all the MMORPGs that came out alongside WoW. I guess PvP felt like a more fitting acronym, since it paired up nicely with the common use of PvE.
But yeah, PK is perhaps a more accurate description of how the activity often just involves one player annihilating the other who’s completely unaware until it’s too late. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

But regardless, it’s semantics I think. Everyone gets the meaning of PvP. If you hit on something that’s controlled by another player, then it’s PvPing……Or PKing. :yum:

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Classic PvP is crap; its more gear dependent than now and requires a crap ton of time investment if you don’t raid, considerably more than PvP does now even with all of the time sinks it has.

But the gameplay is more MMO and possibly better. I mean levelling will probably take til end of November-early December for the majority of people.

This idea that classes can one shot is also a complete fallacy; it only occurs when geared players meet non-geared players. A bit like how rogues are probably top 3 in PvP…til everyone gets geared and then mages, locks and SPs dominate.

Anyway despite calling PvP crap I am going to play and most likely enjoy it. Classic PvP rewards individual skill whilst arena rewards teamwork basically.

They also confirmed TBC will follow…so there’s no reason not to at least get to 60. Grinding to rank 10 (or 11) took forever when I was younger…like playing 6+ hours a day every day for months. Not sure I can be bothered to do that.

Basically the problem right now is simple; Blizzard’s design philosophy is you can gear from many source (pve or pvp) but to make sure pvp doesn’t outright affect pve, it has to be worse, therefore you have to gear through pve and that is what every pvper hates (except whatever that DH’s name is). PvP gear is bad, too RNG and unless you’re glad worse than PvE gear.

if Jitos post is anything to go by, TBC cant come sooner. You also completely ignored Naelys point…2v40 isn’t PvP for anyone who actually cares about PvP. In fact in classic I would say if you aren’t outnumbered, you aren’t PvPing, you’re just a noob killing people when you have an advantage. Then you get the numbers equal and people leave so meh.

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My take on Arena is still that there’s a small dedicated audience who really loves it…and everyone else doesn’t give a hoot.
If a TBC server option was to be released, then I think it would be the same small dedicated Arena audience that would be interested in TBC Arena. Everyone else wouldn’t give a hoot about it. They’d be there for Illidan and Kil’jaeden.

That is technically also PvP. It may not be what interests you about PvP. You may be more drawn toward skillful, hard-fought battles against equal opponents. But others just enjoy a no-strings-attached slaughterfest or a wild ganking spree.
It’s all PvP, in its simplest meaning of the term at least.

But it’s a common exchange around here. I often run into this conversation:
“What are you doing here Jito? You’re no PvPer!”
“What do you mean? I’ve done lots of PvP. Killed some Horde in Nazjatar today.”
“That’s not real PvP.”
“What’s real PvP?”
“Arena.”
“Oh, I do Skirmishes every now and then!”
“Rated Arena.”

The air is thick with elitism here sometimes. :biohazard: