I’m sorry that my +23/24 isn’t high enough. Not that it matters, because as rogue I have literally 0 tools to deal with it
I disagree. The affix is designed around the healer toolkit. Not all DPS have heals and dispels. Not all tanks have heals or dispels. All healers have heals and dispels.
Not saying it’s exclusively for healers, I’m saying it’s a healer affix because consistently speaking healers are the only role that can always deal with it.
Also not saying that’s a good design, in fact it’s horrible. It’s just not going to change the fact that it’s designed for healers, not for DPS or Tanks. It’s designed in a way where some specs of those roles can support, which is even worse.
That is the thing. Healers very often do not have always the tools to deal with it since they have to use their tools through the dungeon already, while a guardian druid or ret paladin can 100% contribute. That is why it is more a non healer affix than a healer affix. Allthough obviously the healer will help when he can.
It is not in the case of that room. I have to use my dispels for Bloom, and for Chronoburst. As an Rshaman I have the advantage of being able to use totem.
But that is still 1 GCD. And damage can get so high there that I dont even have a GCD to spare.
So no. Its definitely NOT a healer affix. And DDs/Tanks should assist in high damage scenarios and bosses. 100%. Mistjo explained it 100%:
10000 %
That was hotfixed. The reason its not 1shoting the players is because you play low keys. On a 20 tyranical it will defenetly kill you. Unless you pop a wall or inmune, not any regular deff.
Mistjo explained something and I don’t agree. Of course there are scenarios where the healer simply won’t be able to deal with it. This however doesn’t make it less of a healer affix, it’s just a poor implementation. The design is around healers, regardless of whether or not they can deal with it in every scenario.
Healing in raid is also a healer’s job, doesn’t change the fact that other specs can assist with defensives, heals, or dispels, think Rally, Darkness, Lay on Hands etc.
In fact, if you look at it from the perspective of the design not being a healer affix, that makes it even worse because a bunch of classes/specs are simply not able to deal with it, so that makes no sense to me at all. Nobody in their right mind would design an affix like afflicted for ever role to deal with, and then not give certain specs those tools.
Not talking about the stacking cheese.
If everyone is properly standing in the dark zone and only 2 people with the rings stand in a light zone and stand still, they don’t have to stack, and both use a defensive, it works fine if the overlap goes wrong. Happened on a tyrannical 23 and works just fine. That’s also the keystone level where you’d have 0 issues dealing with afflicted because you’d bring at least 1 extra spec that can help with the affix if needed.
Well, then you get topics like this where non healers do not understand why there are people dieing left and right.
Afflicted is an affix you do before the dungeon. You invite 2 players, not counting the healer, who can do the affix and it is GG.
The design is not around healers when other specs are way better at them and can also consistently do them. Healers can mostly help when they have the time and abilities available.
Blizz stated, and I quote: “we dont want to do affixes that only healers have to deal with. So we will be replacing Explosive (only healers did it) with afflicted”. And then they did just that: did an affix that only half the classes could deal with.
Bad design 100%. But NOT a healer affix. Stated by blizz devs themselves.
So I dont know why you keep going on about it being a “healer affix” when its not. By design. Bad design, but design nontheless.
I want to reiterate the fact that this affix replaced explosive. Which was an affix that 100% the healer was expected to do most of the time. Because 1 damage GCD from a healer is less waste than 1 GCD from a DD. So healers did them all the time.
With your logic, I could go and say “its a DD affix… healers just help sometimes”… Well NO. Thats not how it works. Its not how it happened.
And of course, healers complained. A LOT. Not only did we have to do it, but we also had to heal a ton in S1, AND if one of them DID explode, we also had to heal the consequences of falure. So much weight on our backs.
And that is why a DPS affix, that healers ended up doung, was replaced by Afflicted which is supposed to spend 1 GCD, but not from a damaging ability (remove the waste) so everyone can do it.
I pitty the healer that had to deal with 2 rings at once. Let me run through the numbers right there:
So: 2 people with dispels receiving 120k/s on a tyranical 23. PLUS, 80k/s from standing on the light zone. So, 200k/s.
If they stand still, they wont receive the damage from their own ring, but they will from the one passing. Which in a 23 is ~ 300-350k damage. Both at once.
So for them to survive, they need to pull off a BIG CD (-50% damage atleast) to survive that. AND, they need to be BOTH topped up at 100% at the exact moment of the explosion. And they need to time their 5-6s wall with all that.
And wile the healer is spam healing 2 targets, there is the party thats totally neglected. Those are still receiving damage. And will receive damage from 2 rings passing simultaneously. So you need a big deff CD from the healer (bubble, link, those sort of CDs) on top of the DR from the dark zone.
So no… its not EZ. You just had an exploited healer that 100% was cursing through that fight asking himself WHY would you do 2 rings at once instead of 1 by 1…
And even if you intentionally wanted to pull it off: only ONCE in the fight. You spent ALL your deff CDs on it. Its a waste of deff CDs IMO because now you dont have any in case the rest of the fight does not go GUCCI perfect. Which is 100% possible given that you can receive double damage from the ring and get 1-shot.
Yould roll a healer and try out healing. Cause you sir, are living in a bubble world.
Sounds like you only had bad healers then. I mostly run with a premade healer and he’s got no issues with it.
Maybe I’m biased but… Players got 850k+ hp, and most players have some versatility and avoidance. On top of that players got a defensive, so in case there is an overlap they can use their defensive, but this is not a scenario that happens frequently, maybe once per fight. On outlaw I instruct my healer to not even dispel me, because I can stay in the dark zone and then pop evasion + feint and I’ll have 20% dr through vers, 13% through avoidance, 20-40% through feint, 20% through evasion.
When played properly you only stand in the light section for 2~3 seconds and based on when you enter you haven’t even gotten any damage for a bit as the dark zone only ticks every 3 seconds with roughly 60% equal to 3 seconds in the light zone.
This overlap is peanuts at a 23. If you die on this boss it’s 100% a skill issue.
I really, really, really hope the rest of the fight goes perfect. Because if it does not, your out of CDs my friend.
Also… a 23 is nothing. Try that on a 27 tyranical. And then we can talk about “if you wipe its a skill issue”. Also, lets see if your healer is up for the challange of double rings then…
Cause on a 27 the passing ring does 550k damage. On me (shamans also stack vers and avoidance)… Classes that dont stack vers its even more.
So dont give me classes on how to heal it. The double ring is a dumb idea. Its a dumb idea on a 27, and it still is on a 23, and even on a 15. Its a L2P issue assuming that comes even close to a valid strat to do the boss.
So tell me, besides of the circles and the constant damage, what damage is there? Right, nothing.
Learn to read please, never said this is the default tactic. I said that in case there’s a weird overlap and your healer can’t deal with it, the DPS have sufficient tools to deal with it instead.
27 Rise is something done by maybe the top .5%, maybe even less. At this point you are playing in a completely different way than things are designed to be for the 99% of players.
That boss is designed to be dispelled 1 by 1. There is no way you can justify saying that its designed otherwise. 0.1% or not.
You made a mistake by having 2 chrono fade at once. And there is no way you can justify it otherwise.
You are so naive. “what other damage is there?”… bro… That “ticking damage” you mention trucks. A lot. And its not massive on its own, its just very dangerous when paired with the Chrono fade tick (of the players that have it) and the burst itself.
You sir have 0 clue on how to heal.
I just checked in “not even close” what damage would Chrono Fade do to a Rogue with 30% vers and 12% avoidance in a Fall 25:
690,063 unmitigated.
586,554 mitigated.
So, asuming you have 880k health like me, that would be 66% of your life.
I was about to calculate how much decaying time does but at this point I think its unecessary. But you can imagine that the real challenge for healers is to maintain the rot + a wave chuking 66% of your life. Not ONCE. But TWICE.
So the whole party will go best case scenario (with no rot or ticks or anything) from 100 to 50. And then you have to heal the WHOLE PARTY again to 100% or else they get 1-shot. Then you add Rot damage on top AND ST healing the dude with the debuff (that also ticks).
When your premade does 25s in tyranical and is trying 26s and 27s then you tell me how to do that boss.
Because that is the key levels (25s and above) where you have to do it as intended, or you die. 1 mistake and its over.
Again. Are you goint to argue AGAIN that having 2 chrono fade at the same time its nothing other than a mistake your party did? Because its nothing more that that. A mistake.
And you did not wipe not because you had deffs. But because it was a 23. In a 24 (you will see…) nothing short of a bubble or 70% wall will save you. Dark zone or not.
I am not going to ridicule people on +23’s. I haven’t timed multiple dungeons on that level (or not on tyrannical). We also already had wipes because of people getting hit twice and die by a single dispell because too close to the target on those keylevels. I am not promoting 2 circles going off on any key above +20.
I by the way have 824k health on 484-485 ilvl. For what’s worth it.
I normally dont either. I respect and encourage everyone that is doing M+ at their level, pushing and improving at their own pace. Not everything is EZ for everyone. We are all wiping in the end. Nobody, not even the 0.001% can claim that they never wipe anywhere.
I do have an issue with Mr. Linaori giving us lessons as if he was doing MDI or something. Because if we wanna measure each-others E-Peen then I can play that game too.
I stumbled upon enough people like that puging to tolerate that kind of attitude in the forums. Especially when people claim that an affix is “for healers only”.
