I’m having problems to enter m+22 I only get declines and infinite queue I SPENT 5 HOURS apply in all 22 To enter one dungeon … And i have all timmed in 21 … Yes warrior are not in a god spot at the eyes of group leaders … and devs dont seem to worry about… Look in next patchs notes… 0 changes … 
cr 0 , bl 0 , cc yes u can build for cc but lose dps that is not an option otherwise we go down other specs not a good thing , 5 % attack power … Useless for casters and not worth to be relevant…
A 15 % hp shout… LoL put it at 30 % … Thats some survi … cuz stuff one shots… 15% hp group die the same… it is good to have but irrelevant sometimes…
So why pick a warrior dps ???
???
Give me a good answer…
Solution Idea is :
Banner Of War : all party members do 15% more critical damage for 15 sec… So warrior will be good to make nice bursty opens and gain time to finish dungeons…
Warriors dps needs a new skill that will change everything , making warriors more nicier to have one in group…
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The reason you are not brought for a 22 key, while you have timed 21, is because you are competing with others that have done 24 keys in time.
The question is often not ‘why don’t they want a warrior?’, the question should be ‘Why dont they want to bring myself?’
My best tip to you is to network as you push keys. Add players that you want to see again and invite them to do push keys in the future. Once you reach the 23-24 mark, puging is basically a waste of time - so use your time building a strong premade foundation for your RIO farm instead.
They should uncapp fury.
Give us back spell like “Vigilance”, or some Banner.
And Shockwaves on node with Stormbolt.
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Yes warrior bl will be amazing and easier to get invited into groups. I hope they make it happen.
This is untrue in my anecdotal experience. During S3 of SL i had the same problem progressing my RIO by pugging (at 22 key level). I decided to play a somewhat meta spec ww (which was around 3rd best spec behind destro and survival).
I got about 250 point more than on my war. The only difference was that i could get into groups nearly instantly and was not staying in queue.
There is an appreciable difference in being meta versus not in your ability to get into a group. And when more or less everyone is meta like now, it sure helps having utility.
You found it to be untrue that networking is the most efficient way to gain RIO, or that the competition to get into a key is steep?
The meta question has been discussed earlier on. Fury warrior do perform and is more consistent than most specs. If you work around a meta comp, use it for its strengths - a warrior will not be able to perform at the same level (aka the MDI meta debate). Yet, when you pug you are not doing that, you are simply going pack to pack, never timing CDs, exploiting funneling damage or windows - Where that is lacking is where Fury shines. So PuGs.
I stated earlier as well, ‘Warrior is unpopular because the opinion is that warrior should be unpopular’. Something I still stand by. I am not arguing that warrior is currently being picked less vs meta classes - what I argue is that warrior is in a more than fine spot, based on high end performance and PuG experience at a 21-23 level. Asking for more, is simply buttering your bacon.
Last of your argument. Indeed, it sure helps having utility. Good thing warrior got that in spades.
I just got kicked from group cuz no bl in group and a druid 2980 io apply to finder so they insta kick war cuz normal we are a joke pick druid and find bl class… Well time to change game i cant play this anylonger
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What i found untrue is your first two sentences. You are not usually directly in competition with people far above your level, and it’s usually not a a question “why don’t they want to bring myself” and only a question about class/spec assuming you have the rio.
Leaders will often sit in queue waiting for the right (or perceive) right spec instead of taking something else. For instance it seems you cannot do TJS without a SP these days. Or in SL S3, you would see leaders absolutely waiting for a destro/survival even as far as taking those below the rio of the key.
Your networking part is true but it’s somewhat avoiding the problem “if warrior dps is undesirable just make friends bro”. Ok, but can we address the problem in the first place.
3 Likes
Often they will sit and wait for certain classes, sure. But they will not pick the 2.2k score shaman for a 21, even if they already timed a +21. They will rather wait for the shaman who got 3k score and done all dungeons at 21.
You would not bring the 1k score Shadow Priest for a +21, rather you would bring the 3k score warrior. And so on. Classes/spec matters, but is not absolute at low levels.
So when we talk about pushing, you are always competing versus the guys with better score / progress than yourself for a spot. What would you call that other than competition?
The problem is solved by networking, so it is my go-to solution.
No s**t man, what kind of argument is that. Having the right spec is not worth several hundreds to a thousand points thankfully !
But you might take someone a hundred point below the level of the key. I’ve seen it a lot during during the survival/destro craze.
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It is a more extreme version of would you bring the guy priest who got 2.8k score (but non-timed keys), or the 2.7k warrior (but all keys are timed ++).
Yeah, you get my point. And there has been some crazes and if you remember the destro/surv SL meta - it was actually throwing not bringing them. As they did 20-30% more DPS than the next best thing.
With things as they are though, there is no reason you wouldn’t just pick the 2.8k (all timed) Fury Warrior for your 20-23 keys, no questions asked.
Of course there are reasons not to bring this dps warrior. It’s what everyone in this thread is trying to say. The opportunity cost is against dps warriors. You get more bang for your bucks bringing any other (or maybe almost any other) class in your group that’s the point people are making.
Anyway at this point, i think there is no argument that would make you recognize that there is a desirability problem with warrior dps in m+ group (is there ?) if there is not then the discussion is pointless…
As a tank you can reflect a lot of abilities naturally, in that sense is one of the strongest defensive abilities, that can actually counter many abilties.
As a dps warrior is a different story, spell reflect may be useful, in reflecting sense but it all comes down to RNG (mobs targeting you) and/or ability of your tank and your group to switch taunts around.
Most of the time however you will simply use it for magic damage reduction.
The problem lies not in the class, but play perception. Blizzard can only fix that by nerfing/buffing classes a ton to force a change of minds. Yet, all it takes is one popular streamer saying “it is good” or “it is bad”, suddenly things are swapped again.
Warrior is again heavy punished by the MDI effect.
People think warrior is a bad DPS pick, yet in truth in a PuG enviroment where you exceedingly are not pulling around CDs - Fury warrior excels at pumping DPS.
TL:DR
Warrior is good enough as is, to do all content without any issues. The only problem is community perception and buffing warrior is not a good solution to that.
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Theres a desirability problem with every dps. We play a incredibly oversaturated role. People will call u trash for doing 1% less dps then another class.
Not to mention u dont bring AoE stealth, u dont bring BL or CR.
Exactly thats why we need a new skill Banner of war that gives a buff to all party fits well and is well deserved only for dps roles
All allys get 10 % more of their Primal stat points for 15 sec
or if too much overpowered a 10 % critical damage
5 % more damage
or just be a second bl less powerfull or a Power Infusion similar skill
I will say this about class imbalance in M+, it has def gotten better.
I made a reddit post in SL about how “locked down” it felt when forming a m+ group cause you had to think about bringing atleast one with the right covenant. And mandatory answers for mechanics in nearly all dungeons. Like decurse in HoA, soothe in DoS, and dispell in plaguefall and so on. In DF dungeons i have so far, not seen any of those type of mechanics in the 20-22 key range which as a warrior that brings nothing to the table i am grateful for.
I agree with the others in this thread that with the talent revamp warrior utility got so fkd. Even before the rework we had arguable the worst utiility in the game and it only got worse with the new talents. Removed our aoe fear, aoe slow, berserk rage. And placed shockwave in such a bad place in the tree that its currently out of the question to talent into it.
I tank a lot, and I usually take over, making the groups.
I would not say it soley due to lust or cr I dont bring warrior - its just like (you mentioned other CC). If warrior had Fear, St Stun, AoE Stun, and mabye Piercing howl with an AoE silence modifier baseline - I would bring warrior. But 99% of warrior players wont sacrefice any dps for control. It also took me like a month to talk my hunter friend into playing either misdirect or Wailing Arrow. People usually look at the top 100 their-class-and-spec - and persume they should run the same build. But they are running premades. I wish people would pick talents for their pugs/groups. If I have to tell sombody to play utility, I wont bring them.
I usaully try bring Warlock, Shaman, Rogue and Mage, they have more utility, and the players playing these classes are more relucatant to also using and knowing when to use them.
That said - when you are in a “pug” situation, people overlap CC and interupts - so bring more cc than you need is required.
Most dps really dont understand its about the party dps, not their personal dps.
Control = bigger pulls = more dps.
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you are trolling when a warrior posts complain anytime arent you ? dont get invites from pugs=make some friends , warrior seems weak for m+ = MDI effects warrior badly. that all you say everyones posts. friends or MDI wont fix that realty which is dps warrior doesnt bring enough utility as other meta melee specs. if it has to be happen like that at least we should do noticeably more overall dps then other specs so we can have a value to get invites for keys.
You play Fury warrior yourself, you know as well as I, we are usually the top DPS in the group. DPS is fine.
You also know we got the tools and can do the job.
All is in the mind of the community, stupid as it is. Breaking the game balance to get through that glassceiling is simply not worth it in my mind. We would just get slapped down the line and actually become useless.
So let’s hope the 12-16% DPS increase alone for Fury will be enough to make it go mainstream.
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