Dragonflight Hunter Talent Trees

Blizzard have recently released their preview for the Hunter Talent Tree revamp for the upcoming Dragonflight expansion: https://www.wowhead.com/news/hunter-dragonflight-talent-preview-327601

What are your thoughts? I need to go through it again to fully understand how it works before I make any real judgement…especially as there are quite a few clashes of utility options and rotation options that I often use in a variety of situations. :thinking:

im really liking it tbh, im thinking this build for pve https://www.wowhead.com/dragonflight-talent-calc/AAB8NFJmQIAQrsIEEQBFACHLZccVBY9ADAEBQ though iv only just started playing the class like afew days ago so my knowledge of the spec and class is limited :slight_smile:

don’t understand the mess in the Sv Tree to have wilfire Infusion and force to have cd reduction on the bomb with KS , carve still reduce the cd with another talent not in the same path… and at the end “Fury of the eagle”. thematic and talents order are very "wtf " …

A lot of boring talents (3 points input “yeah”) like you gain 2/4/6 % criticial strike and they are mandatory to go down in the tree. zzzzzzzzzzz

So it’s seem dificult to have some "quality life " talent like Focus increase by 10/20 or the increase range of melee attack by 1/2/3 yards ( 3points input again …) without loosing a lot in the end of the three. Like "A LOT " cause you have to put points in those boring spender talents before. I’m ok to make "meaningfull choice " hum … and don’t have everything, but some paths are extremely no fun and badly design in this first preview.

Predator Alpha at end of the "normal " three … seriously
/cry

Edit : This guy said it very well and better than me (and my poor english) my thoughts :

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I’ve only delved into the base talents and SV, but so far it seems abysmal. So many 3/3 talents on absolute fluff, only to get to what we already have. Nothing has been improved and the only thing we get to pump points into is increased this or that by X% or X seconds.

Honestly, if you look at the rogues tree for example and compare it with ours, you will start to think they done ours in a couple of hours compared to what looks like a week for rogues. Our tree is BAD, on many levels it is horrendous.

Posted this on the NA forums a while back.

Beast Mastery

Also including a few points about the class tree at the bottom. Some of it ties into the part about Beast Mastery as well.

Positive

  • Beast Cleave - At 3 ranks, it will now be back to 75% of normal damage, but in turn, we will now also have access to Kill Cleave, which makes Kill Command deal 50% damage to nearby enemies as well. And it seems as if Kill Cleave doesn’t come with a soft cap of 5 or 8 targets, like Beast Cleave does. Although, the fact that Beast Cleave requires 3 points is a bit of a downer…
  • Talents for AoE, optional - It’s good to see that you can easily side-step the bulk of any talents(Multi-Shot, Beast Cleave, Kill Cleave) that are meant for AoE, if you’re in a scenario where it’s not required.
  • New talent ‘Call of the Wild’ - Seems interesting. Would like to know a bit more about the specifics, but looks like the old Stampede is making a return.
  • New talent ‘Bloody Frenzy’ - In the bottom right choice node. Seems interesting as well, could make for some fun setup for burst windows. Either way, the combination of Call of the Wild and Bloody Frenzy has the potential to be very fun to play with.
    • The ideal thing would be if the pets summoned by Call of the Wild, with Bloody Frenzy picked, if they were all affected by Frenzy’s bonus attack speed, even if Frenzy was already active when you use Call of the Wild.

Hmm…

  • Cobra Shot + Cobra Senses - The talent tooltip reads that Cobra Shot reduces the remaining cooldown of Kill Command by 1 sec. You then also have another talent called ‘Cobra Senses’, where the tooltip reads that, if you pick it, Cobra Shot reduces the remaining cooldown of Kill Command by 1 sec. Would each Cobra Shot, if ‘Cobra Senses’ is picked, reduce the remaining cooldown of Kill Command by 2 sec? Or would Cobra Senses be required for Cobra Shot to have that 1 sec CDR on Kill Command?
  • New talent ‘Barbed Wrath’ - Which combines the effect of how Barbed Shot reduces the remaining CD of Bestial Wrath, and now will also reduce the remaining CD of Aspect of the Wild. The part about you also being able to reduce the cooldown of Aspect of the Wild is decent, but not the part where we now have to talent into CDR for Bestial Wrath.
  • Wailing Arrow - As a new talent, seems a bit out of place – when put in the spec tree. If you ask me, it would be better suited as a choice in the class tree.
  • New talent ‘Dire Pack’ - Seems a bit odd. Granted that we don’t know how much damage Multi-Shot will deal. Also, why would it affect Steady Shot, but not Cobra Shot? For Beast Mastery, Cobra Shot replaces Steady Shot if picked. Also, why is it a square node when it’s not a new ability?
  • New talent ‘Wild Instincts’ - Might have the risk of becoming very chaotic at times, to the point where it may result in wasted procs of Barbed Shot charges. Especially when combined with the regular Wild Call.

Negative

  • Beast Cleave - There doesn’t seem to be any talent that increases the base duration of Beast Cleave, and Beast Cleave still has the regular 4 sec base duration.
  • Animal Companion, still a talent - For many players, picking this talent has more to do with personal preferences in terms of aesthetics and identity, not about a choice of throughput. Keeping it as a talent can easily have a negative impact on players, no matter whether they like using it or not.
  • Dire Beast - Is still the same as in Shadowlands, a plain “use-on-CD” ability. I still think it’s a missed opportunity to not rework it back to how it was in Legion, so that we can choose between a playstyle with Barbed Shot + Frenzy, or aspects involving Dire Beast. I for one very much enjoyed the “beast cannon” builds in Legion, even though some didn’t.
  • Aspect of the Wild - A bit sad to see that Aspect of the Wild is still present, albeit as a choice this time. If anything, it needs something more. It’s not a very interesting, nor fun, ability to manage.
  • Core functions now split apart - The fact that they’ve taken some abilities and picked them apart, only to then reintroduce what they took out as a stand-alone talent.
    • Ex: Barbed Wrath, this being its own thing, rather than keeping it as part of Bestial Wrath’s default setup, it really shouldn’t be done this way.
    • Same thing with Loaded Quiver. It didn’t feel very good to play when Barbed Shot only had 1 charge.

Final thoughts

Here are some thoughts on what could be done to improve the general composition of Beast Mastery as a specialization/talent tree.

Animal Companion - Not about throughput
Really, I can’t stress this enough, make Animal Companion a baseline passive choice that we can make. One that simply splits normal pet damage between 2 permanent pets, if we so choose. Or if we go with 1 main pet, that pet will then deal 100% of normal damage.

Beast Cleave - Increase duration
For the sake of gameplay, ideally, something like changing Beast Cleave to a 2 point talent(still @75% total damage), and then adding a small tangent branch node(1 point) directly below it that does this:

[Improved Beast Cleave] - Increases the damage of Beast Cleave by 10%, and Beast Cleave now lasts for an additional 6 seconds.

Call of the Wild - Embracing the “Beast Cannon”
Would love a talent or bonus trait of some kind that allows you to extend the duration of Call of the Wild, by using another ability.

Loaded Quiver - Shouldn’t exist as a talent
Barbed Shot should go back to having 2 charges by default. We all learned this lesson during Legion.

Dire Beast - Back to Legion design
It should preferably be reworked to how it was in Legion, so that we could choose between that and Barbed Shot. And with that, talents that have an interaction with Barbed Shot should be iterated on to also include elements tied to Dire Beast.

Wailing Arrow - To the class tree
Somewhere around Counter Shot. Make it an extended “branch” pick from Counter Shot. See the class section below for details.

Dire Pack’s tooltip - Needs clarification
Along with the icon, showing it as a new ability. It needs to be clarified what the intent with it is, as a talent.

Barbed Wrath - Should be reworked
The cooldown reduction for Bestial Wrath should be a default element of Bestial Wrath itself, like it is on live. Ideally, the reworked version should read something like:

[Primal Instincts] - Barbed Shot now also reduces the remaining cooldown of Aspect of the Wild by 4/8 sec, and Aspect of the Wild increases your Mastery by -/- for the duration.

In for the Kill - In the wrong position
Move the talent ‘In for the Kill’ down one step, to where Wailing Arrow was previously positioned.

  • In the place of ‘In for the Kill’, put a talent there that allows for A Murder of Crows to be affected by Beast Cleave, if picked. This will then give us a choice between that talent, and the talent ‘Bloodshed’. Allowing for a pick between AoE/Cleave, and priority target damage. Example:

    [Talon Frenzy] - While Beast Cleave is active, A Murder of Crows affects up to 8 enemies near the primary target.


Hunter class tree, a few things

Aspect of the Fox has long been an ability that the hunter community wants for to be brought back. While it was indeed at times a very powerful piece of utility, I would argue that with a few changes to it, this would allow the entire class to have raid/group-wide utility that, at times would still be very strong, but albeit situational.

I would love to see something like the example below put back, as an option in the class tree. As per the tooltip, it would have a substantially longer shared cooldown, however long is required to not heavily promote class stacking or other things similar to that.

Aspect of the Fox - Instant - 3 min cooldown/30 sec global(shared) cooldown
Party and raid members within 40 yards take on the aspects of a fox, allowing them to move while casting all spells and abilities for 6 sec.

For positioning in the class tree, there are a few things I would do at the same time.

  • Aspect of the Fox has been added in the place where we can currently find Counter Shot, to allow for the class to bring some additional utility, other than Primal Rage(which isn’t exactly a massive perk in group-based content). A lot of other classes/specs are getting additional raid/group utility, and atm, I think hunters are the only ones left out in this department.
  • Tar Trap has been taken out of the tree, the intent is that it should be given to us as a baseline ability, when we level up. Same as it works currently with Freezing Trap.
  • Improved Exhilaration has been moved out to take the place of the placeholder node they mentioned in the post, the one they wanted to be about utility(where Scare Beast was previously placed).
  • Misdirection + Fogged Crystal have both been moved one row to the left, to where Tar Trap and Improved Exhilaration was previously placed. And, a path has been added from Fogged Crystal, to connect to the new position of Improved Exhilaration.
  • Counter Shot has been moved down one row, to where Misdirection was previously placed. To make room for Aspect of the Fox.
  • Wailing Arrow has been added below the new position of Counter Shot. Again, I would prefer it to be about the utility(silence effect), not damage.
  • The new position of Scare Beast, is as a tangent node that extends out from the choice node for Scatter Shot/Binding Shot. I think that would be much more useful for any scenario where you would find value in picking Scare Beast.
  • Keen Eyesight + Master Marksman. And lastly, You can see the path added as a connection from Keen Eyesight, downwards to Master Marksman.

Allround this would be my MM Hunter PvP Specc. Some slight adjustments depending on melee or caster enemy with wailing arrow(if it does silence) and how good chimerashot actually is for MM.

But i like that MM has got really good baseline tools with Steeltrap, Petstun, Scatter.

Also like having chakrams, chimera shot back for mm as (hopefully viable) option but also Explosive Shot.

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The amount of talents points associated with SVs filler ability in both trees is actually absurd…

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Base duration of Beast Cleave needs to be like the bonus set we have right now on SL.
it’s really a nice timer but again, if not we’ll use Addon as usual.

There’s some weird combos that i think we’ll test during the Beta in a month or less and let’s hope we’ll have a good answer this time from the Dev; not like the SL Beta where absolutely everything we have right now (in term of fixes) was discussed during the Beta and could have been prevented back then.

What scared me honestly is that we do not have “Wild spirit” where it is clearly our best choice for Burst, i can’t see the same potential with the Chakram (with Explose proc, wich we do not have in DF; Explosion is on another node not backed with Chakram).

So…let’s hope something has been done with the “base” dmg (though seeing the %dmg on both talent tree is great!) of our pets to counter the lack of “Wild Spirit” procs.

Personally not a big fan of the MM tree. Feels like they just emptied the spellbook and added pretty much the entire base kit as talents. Seems like there’s pretty much nothing new.

This from a poster in the US. SV has a real problem, and I mean too real. What is so annoying, is that they forced the change into melee, which right now is fine and all. But then after doing so and frustrating so many players, they then put the least effort into their talents. Imagine having so many X%, X Second talents…

10 talents in the survival tree cost 3 points to move through. That’s more than double any other tree. The problem with 3 point talents is they’re just fluff. 3 points to get the same % of functionality that you get as a current talent. A few of these are fine, but out of 32 nodes 33% of them require 3 points? That’s a fluffed tree and there needs to be some options added. There’s going to be some super rigid paths if it stays like this. Outlaw has 50% more nodes and zero 3 point talents for example. That tree will have so many options it’ll be exponentially more varied than survival as it currently stands.

Survival: 10 out of 32 ~31%
Feral: 4 out of 33 ~12%
Beastmaster: 3 out of 34 ~9%
Assassin: 2 out of 38 ~5%
Balance: 2 out of 34 ~6%
Blood: 2 out of 36 ~6%
Unholy: 2 out of 34 ~6%
Marskman: 1 out of 36 ~3%
Outlaw: 0 out of 45
Frost: 0
Priests (All specs): 0
Guardian: 0
Resto: 0

2 Likes

Not gonna go too much into detail, but I like the MM talents and overall class talents.

What struck me the most is there should be several different playstyles of MM depending on your talent choices.

A focus on Aimed Shot, current build focus with RF, Legion throwback with Windburst and even the current Venthyr playstyle, since we have an option to get the current Flayed Shot effect via AiS.

Aso love the fact that MM has an access to stun now.

Don’t like some of the branching tho, but will write about that in detail some other time. Depending on tuning, this could be good, imho.

My biggest regret is that kyrian arrow didn’t make it, but I am happy with Chakram as well. I am happy that Wild Spirits didn’t make it. Other 3 covenant options had its use in both PvE and PvP. WS is poo in PvP.

Please make Barbed shot optional for BM hunters! It ruined the BM for me. Or remove it or move it to survival where it should have stayed.

Barded shot makes the speck completely unreliable. It is not fun trying to keep up buff that you know its not even possible to keep it up all the time - yet its huge dps loss when it drops out . If BM is suposed to be “the” casual spek why does it have the most unreliable, annoying, stresfull and unforgiving buff to keep up?

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Blizzard, please remove the only ability that has gives a small semblance of a rotational forethought since the spec was introduced.

LoL

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Imho, I would not take Steady Shot and only 1/2 Killing bow in favor of Careful Aim.

feel like careful aim is overrated for me. But its not gonna be good if chimera shot hits like nothing anways^^

will probably end up like this^^

Disagree tbh. CA is one of the reasons MM can push some pressure outside of CDs. It is quite unique, in the fact it serves as a ‘‘reverse’’ execute. Also, it just bullies cloth wearers. In this state, and especially with so many talents modifying AiS, can’t see it not being good.

the problem with CA is, you may have good start off burst but you may lack finishing off. THe mm tree already buffs AiS good, specially the part right down the tree. but for final builds, we lack the information about how good what spells really are^^

Well, we shall see how paced DF is, but on retail, what gives CA so much value is the fact people need to be topped off constantly, due to bursty dmg. This is why I said it gives pressure outside of cooldowns. With cooldowns, unless it is a LnL proc, you would use Double Tap with Rapid Fire a lot more often.

But ye, depends on the tuning. I hope MM retains its bursty nature.

id be happy if mm can be both bursty and consistant depending on if you go the right side down the tree or left side with double tap.

i alwlay prefer high consistant dmg over oneshots

How about the survivability of mm hunters? How do they mitigate dmg? Will hunter still be the paper bag in pvp and pve? What is blizzard doing about this?