I feel you. I play holy/ret since TBC (back in private servers) and imagine how I feel playing pala right now and looking and DF changes that we aren’t getting.
Btw my pala is parked I only use him for mount runs or something like that, I enjoy my warrior/dk/priest more.
Its more clear then ever there was no discussion to be had for Ret in DF. No major gameplay changes, just throw in borrowed power (all of them nerfed versions ofc) from the last 3 expansions into the class and call it a day.
They stated that they were very happy with how ret worked during Legion and the same in BFA. So thats their mindset on it all, and will probably be the same in the expansion after.
My main problem since near forever with Ret is our mobility and DF nerfs our already bad mobility while buffing everyone elses, and this will make Ret very frustrating to play, not to mention our lack of basic snares and/or roots.
Adding the best version of LaotL that we had with the current steed wouldnt even save Ret on mobility in DF, dont think it would be all that helpfull even in SL.
Edit: Pvp is basically gonna feel like this again
Vid made 2014 - MoP released 2012. Ppl in comments back then says how its still relevant.
Yeah there is a lot of stuff that needs to be changed on pally but like retribution aura definitely it’s just straight out a bad design. Auras are there to give your party / raid some benefits. I mean it is pretty good for battlegrounds to keep you in wings i have to admit that but i really think they should just make that part a pvp talent and make it something simple like give everyone 5% damage increase and everyone would be happy with retripallys with their retri aura. Or they could also make it that it only gives 3% but retri one gives 5% so they could be more viable for raids and dungeons.
Oh and also give back buffs like blessing of kings at least for some primary stat or something that would be nice to have as well.
Hey fellow paladins,
go to the US forum and maybe drop a like on bolas post.
He made a very good post about the horrible development cycle on ret and paladin in general.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/feedback-paladins/1289849/556
Ret pala will Rise again! But for real now, we need rework, from scratch, our class is stuck in Early Wow era. Atleast 1 season or Tier i want Ret to be Fotm again, is that too much to ask for? Im loyal ret player for close to 14 years, please Devs make that happen for us Fanatic ret Zealots 
There is a difference between being fotm just cause we are strong (S1 Shadowlands PvP with Divine Toll) and a difference between being “fotm” because we have good design. Keep that in mind.
Remind me again what fotm means. If its designed good it will stay good for far longer then a month, let alone a season not to mention expansion. What has been a Ret paladins niche for well over a decade? Its burst dmg/healing and that is never a good design to be built around.
We are the fotm class by design! “Here give them some over the top burst for a while, that will keep them happy for some time” and it works every single time!
Latest build update/impression:
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And this input aswell from one of our pros:
Ret pala is the worst. No mobility, no utility, no damage, no heals, nothing… or better said, they have everything that’s like 90% less useful from the abilities all the other classes have.
Maybe for mobility - if you want to save the horse (give paladin a warrior-like charge too)
Give paladins buffs and auras that no one else has (and make them useful, not like 3% dmg reduction)
Give them healing a bit nerfed than it was originally designed in season 1 SL.
Give them damage even without wings. Wings are way to obvious, easy to counter -especially when there’s such low mobility (a steed without conduits and no charge nor teleport)
Why is there a forbidence debuff or a lack of LoH in arena when priest can fly, die, res, fly again, disperse, fade, stealth? While paladins are crying behind the pillar waiting to be killed by a healer while the community is judging it to be the worst class ever designed.
Why does pala have one bubble? Every other class has 2 LOL (not literally, but come on, bubble is what made it different).
Why is paladin easy killable with his plate gear and why are mages, warlocks and priests tanks with their cloth half-naked gear. What is plate-mail-leather-cloth? I forgot what does that mean in the game.
Why do you focus on pala tanks it’s not the only spec. What about our melee healer - does anyone actually enjoy holy power gathering as a healer?
So let’s see. The problem is not that blizzard hates paladins. The problem is it’s not in the RMP group. RMP will always be meta, until the end of WoW. Why do you think RMP is now available for all races. It’s certaintly not because of the lore. It’s because it’s meta and people would get furious if it wasn’t like that. How satisfied would your game experience be when you’ve been playing a game with some reasonable restrictions and a good roleplay as it was back in the day (of course it’s because we only knew of WoW) AND THAN log in to find a kid that knows nothing of WoW that made a cow go stealth and killing you with one Shadowstrike?
Until they stop making money on boosts with RMP retribution paladins will be like this. Unless they actually read this post and do something about it. But I bet if they even deleted the whole class, 90% of the people would still remain and laugh at us xD. But if that was to happen to a mage… oh well, you know what I mean.
Here we go again. What the actual F is happening to ret pala.
Just read the past nerfs about nerfing Blade of Wrath and I was like oh… nerf again? 50%? really? I mean Art of War RESETS interact with like 3 different talents that interact with other talents. For example Wake of Ashes with ashes to ashes talent with Truth´s wake.
Speaking for myself. I don´t ask for dmg. I don´t want more dmg. I want a fun playstyle that interacts with talents and spells. This is not a dmg nerf in a way but more like interaction nerf that means a lot for the playstyle.
But that´s not all. I was already dissapointed with already numerous nerfs to paladin but THEN I read another nerf post about Spellwarding.
Are they on on crack? Is our developer a priest main? I mean, is it only ret dev? Because prot and holy are fine.
On the other hand, give me one reason to why would you remove Spellwarding and give it to prot only. And even more, they gave it to prot located as a choice node with Improved Ardent Defender!
I really can´t read these tuning posts as I get so angry. I main ret for so long since pandaria with many different alts, PVP or PVE. It makes me sad to see paladin getting pooped on. They place a dmg bandage on our crippled wheelchair and think we are happy. Hell no. I don´t care if I do less dmg really. I wanna see some meaningful changes to paladin. Every other class is getting core buffs and new talents and reworks and FUN talents. Shaman, Demon hunter, Druid, Hunter (except the dr nerf) and what do we get? Nothing interesting. I mean yes, we got the conc playstyle which is fun but you know… 50% nerf to AoW talent.
Enough of my whining. For sure I forgot something but… I hope that some paladins will relate and we will get a good talent tree or rework. Hail copium
You are totally right about everything. Retribution paladins should be deleted at this point. No one will play it, and I know many people that will just abandon the class. And that’s for a good reason. And unlike you, I hate the damage. It’s should be buffed for at least a double to be competitive in PVP including Spellwarding and more utility and mobility. And I say this out of anger towards the Consecration builds and weird, unhelpful talent tree we get that doesn’t allow you to build it the way you’d like, or the way everyone wants. No paladin can do damage in dungeons, raids or PvP with this, and they get nerfed when they should get buffed, unlike how RMP keeps getting buffed. There is actually no way for a ret pala to win an arena match, or to be anywhere close to any other class in PvE in damage (and even when damage is not the problem the weird playstyle they’re forcing and not testing is making it not be able to win the arena match or do damage in PvE). It’s unfair for outlaw rogues to get the buff they get with them being op right now in every aspect of the game. But even so, even if the other classes stay as stupidly strong as they are, make paladins stronger too. They didn’t deserve hate they got during Shadowlands season 1, and in fact it deserves that version of it BUFFED.
Keep the post going! Blizzard needs to see this. Make people know about how robbed ret palas are and make this post seen and replied to by the whole community!
I’d love to see someone from Blizz reply to this. Can we can some visibility on who is responisble for the class changes for dragonflight? I mean not just for paladin but all the others. I feel we would get some answers why paladin was left behind for months and even when it gets news its a nerf…
It’s clear to see that for the other classes Blizz actually took time to reply to feedback and to give the players mostly what they wanted for their classes.
Whoever is responsible for paladin is probably responsible for warriors or mages and actually hates the paladin class because I cannot belive that this result is simply incompetence.
Ignoring all feedback, doing the exact opposite what the players of this class wanted feels like a sort of “revenge” or simply hate for the class.
If this is incompetence it’s not only one persons fault because all the people above him/her allowed this to happen.
If you look at the more prominent paladin players from youtube/twitch they all rerolling and some of them are even quitting because they played only this class and they can’t take it anymore. I can understand this because this was the perfect opportunity to turn things around after 6-7 years of no meaningful changes and to fix the issues with the class. Instead of that we got the watered down Shadowlands paladind to play with in the next expansion with nerfs and to nonsensical idea to force holy paladins to become casters which wont work and to force consecration on prots when you can already see that in most of the fights in the new expansion you will have to constantly move …not to mention mythic+ so forcing a static aoe to be used makes no sense.
I have some hope for the next expansion but we shall see if they will live up to the not so high expectations or kill the game with a 3rd bad expansion in a row.
I just returned to the game like 2 months ago after a break so I wont quit ofc, but probably this will be the first time (not counting BC) when I wont go into the next expansion with a paladin first.
The good thing is they turned things around for druid and fixed a lot of issues with ferals so at least I can switch to something I like and to a class that got a lot of love lately.
I’d really want to know who is responsible for paladins because something is off around this whole class and it’s “changes”.
They won’t tell us in order to negate accountabillity.
Im sure they know that Paladin is nowhere near finished, but are scared to admit it because Dragonflight is right around the corner and they do not want to be called out for releasing an unfinished product.
We will most likely go trough another expansion where Ret doesn’t get the changes it deserves and it’s very annoying to say the least.
Im positive you could give a random guy on the Forums the position that
the current paladin developer has if there even is one 
and he would do a significantly better job.
All of this incompetence from a multi billion dollar company btw.
I would advice you to spread the word as much as possible where ever you got the opportunity to say something.
Forums, Youtube, Twtitter whatever while we are still in development stage.
I don’t think they care about the forums because apparently they ignore the feedback coming from paladins, but here I’m… xD
I rarely comment on youtube videos but I did it recently multiple times around this subject on multiple channels. I guess this shows how bad is the state of the class imo.
I consider myself lucky because I play with other classes too so I have a reason to be happy since most of the other classes got the attention and care they needed but I still feel sad about paladins.
Sadly I don’t think there is enough time now for them to implement meaningful changes. I was hoping that the silence meant they are preparing something big but it turned out that it meant nothing at all :S
I love the class fantasy of paladins and even tho it’s not the most exciting class to play for many years now I sticked to it. It’s really sad that whoever is responsible for the class missed this huge opportunity to do something interesting with each spec.
The only good thing I see is the paladin community itself in unison …how ironic that it’s something bad that brought us together instead of something awesome that we could have celebrate… 
Everyone should spread the word everywhere, and make this post big enough to be seen! Type after me
CHANGE PALADINS - SEE PALADINS - ACKNOWLEDGE PALADINS
THIS IS A STRIKE
THIS IS WERE WE FIGHT!
Im not having any high hopes… sadly.
By the look of things i will only level my bm hunter thru the new zones, explore the zones, finish the quests i see, then unsub and resub again like 1 month or so before the next future exp after that… im guessing this is what a sizable portion of the playerbase does.
(I should clearify: i want them to fix holy paladin so that a ranged healer version is viable aswell + judgment need to give holy power + the infusion of light proc need to give something that means something… like a free fast holy light or flash of light). I dont know how ret and prot plays, but id like the “captain america” shield toss to create a holy power… oh… and… if possible: let us choose to either show the steed for extra speed, or not (just show the player run surrounded in light… or something)).
I found myself wondering how much time i’ve spent waiting for a game that i wanted to play in recent times - Its 75% of what i do when it comes to Blizzard games, because in many of the last years, its been disappointing.
Im done - I refunded Dragonflight today. I got zero hope in these developers - they promise much, but deliver so very little.
The new talent system is shocking - Based on what I see, the only thing they did was taking old abilites and making them into “talents”. Why is it im forced to spec into Lay on Hands, Hand of Freedom and Hammer of Wrath as a paladin? These have always been iconic BASELINE abilities, that should just belong to any paladin - PERIOD.
I’ll tell you why, because they are bankrupt of new ideas - or for some reason wont get the approval to try out something new.
In 16 years of playing ret paladin, i can now declare that you have mismanaged the spec so much, that I dont feel like playing this game - Playing my ret paladin, my main since vanilla, is what playing World of Warcraft is to me. I dont have any interest in other classes but the one i put so much effort into over so many years.
But i guess you will ban me on the forums again for voicing my opinion in here - feel free too, im done until you show us that you care.
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