I wasn’t saying that. I was using the number as a reference since it is the only statistic we do have. And since i know people and got my own experiences on off roles it isn’t strangle to at least assume the 10 people i know who aren’t getting higher are the only people in the whole game. That number on raiderio HAS value. You are just throwing it in the bin.
Like we don’t know the number so it isn’t there.
Any idea how bad someone is on a fire mage who never played other than resto shaman, holy paladin, mistweaver. Only healed but playing since legion. My experience is i get to realistically +6. With try-harding. Luckily i am better on frost dk But happy to be able to start at the very bottom and slowly build.
That doesnt change anything to what i said.
M+ is challenging and harder because of the addition of affixes and how to deal with that.
so you need: basic understanding of affix
experience or knowledge of the dungeon.
i am fine if you dont know how to combine the 2 yet. but you arent hopping into M+ without any relevant dungeon experience.
If people know how to do the mechanics of bosses / trash but arent 100% flawless with the affixes, that doesnt trigger me and i am happy to explain how it works.
but i am not gonna ‘‘boost’’ or play with people who currently (and i saw it earlier this week) hop into a M+10 with their 450 ish gear and perform well dps wise, but then not know boss mechanics which ruins the run / timer.
that is not okay, you shouldnt learn about boss mechanics in M+ 10 or whatever key level. that is where heroics / M0 and guides come in.
This makes no sense whatsoever, because you cant do both.
they squished M2-M20 into M2 till M10/M15ish to make the steps more ‘‘pronounced’’ so the step in difficulty is noticeable.
so they are doing 2 things:
1: less key levels
2: the steps between keys will be bigger (20-25%) because less key levels.
Result: less key bloat, each key / key level feels relevant
that makes it more challenging and a better way to progress.
in the current system (as many have mentioned) you go into a +3 or +4 than hop over into 9s and at some point 12s / 16s.
If you (like you claim) NEED every key level IN BETWEEN to learn and adjust how to play M+ or to deal with just a mere 8% more HP and DMG from mobs, you might ask yourself if you should bother with alts or ‘‘classes you cant play to a certain skill level’’
But overall the increase in difficulty is not there, which is something Blizzard noticed and is adressing.
Look at group finder: its either +7s / +11s / +16s at the end of seasons, and what do they have in common?
They are all the first step of a higher tier upgrade item in the crest system.
why go +19 if a +16 drops the crests aswell, and has a higher succes rate to time it and make sure you get 12 of em? and spend less time doing so…
On top of that:
each season it is literally days before most of the people are back to 1000 rating or higher, skipping certain keys all together because they can time and get +3 upgrades on keys very easily.
But thats not a issue in terms of how the M+ pool is setup, thats with all respect a learn to play issue.
It seems to me, more and more that you want the ‘‘higher numbers’’’ of key levels so you can brag about being able to do so on a class you dont ‘‘fully are capable of of playing’’
For not doing the work in playing your character or class.
even tho a M+2 in season 4 is a similar difficulty as a +11 now.
You seem to still miss the point of the removal of the +2+9. All of those levels. Not +3, +5, +7. No, all of them. Also +2 and +4 and +6 and +8. They removed the step in learning keylevels. All of them.
I am, again, fine when they make the difference per keylevel harder. Per keylevel. Not removal of all the bottom ones and keep everything else the same.
No, because you want to learn boss mechanics and other stuff in M+.
which i 100% disagree on.
And even if you have to learn affixes, there is 1 affix less in the new M+ range so thats even better.
since the 3rd affix doesnt activate till M+10 which is the current M+20 levels.
so there is even ‘‘less to learn’’
so if you want to get to 2k rating, you essentially only deal with Tyrannical or Fortified and Volcanic or Sanguine.
Yes, you did claim that.
Because you keep talking about: +2 till +9 is your ‘‘slow learning ground’’ especially on less played characters and that you even arent able to push beyond +7 on certain characters.
Thats literally claiming you need the lower levels non squished to keep M+ interested. and now you want to say you didnt?
Yeah because you have to change up how you deal with something. However a +25 boss still has the same 3 cleave mechanics.
That same boss, still has the same cleave mechanics in a +2 dungeon.
Which, when you entered the M+2 should have been something you learned from M0 or the Heroic variant, and not during M+
and you are well aware of how they work.
That you have to adjust and change how you play because it is +25 tyrannical or fortified is a whole different story.
Once again, you arent reading at all.
I never said i want to keep every key level. I am fine with comparable with this season +2-4-6-8-10. That is enough different difficulty levels to me. And when i am realistically able to do +7, then i am on +6. Not much lost. (allthough i am not seeing any harm in keeping it how it currently is)
Indeed. Since it isn’t exactly the first time i say this in this topic. And i never said you learn nothing from a heroic or M0 dungeon. But you also should not run those dungeons minimum 10 times to get it completely sorted before getting in M+2. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Actually often you run it 1 time on a lower content and then just go in M+.
(to be fair, i havent runned any DF heroic dungeon at all on any char
And we had 3 seasons where half or 6 out of 8 of the dungeons didn’t had a heroic and M0 version at all)
Just because there are less keylevels doesnt mean that the steps in between is bigger.
Thats just factually wrong. Plain and simple.
Because 0 is now 10 and everything between is gone.
Therefor the scaling from 11+ is the same as always, as also shown in the diagram blizz posted.
The only thing that might make this feel “more relevant” is that the steps between getting better gear are smaller.
Yet this is the first time you are replying something like this, and somehow are fine with it, but it the change doesnt fit ‘‘your vision’’… okay…
You pulled a random number out of your hat again i see. Which i never claimed or mentioned.
I simply said that basic mechanics for dungeons / bosses should be known before jumping into M+, and the higher the M+ you jump into after getting max level (or skipping ''low m+ lvls) does mean you should know mechanics.
not knowing them all at a +2: i am fine with that
not know them all at a +15: i do disagree with this. since it will hurt 4 other people who did put the time and effort in. so not being up to speed is just disrespectful to 4 other players.
And thats exactly what is being fixed with this change. keeping heroics and M0s up to date till M+ kick in.
which is a good change for most players and seeing the responses also many people agree in here.
and the key levels did get squished accordingly. so yeah i am happy with this change.
i already said something about this earlier in my replies. go look that up if you even care. not repeating myself.
Finally: a player who reaches 3,2k rating in M+ on a monk who claims he need many runs to learn a new class in just +7s feels really weird and i am really close on thinking that you are trolling this whole thread.
not playing different classes up to 24s / 25s? i can get that, but not being able to go past 7s with different classes? nah i dont buy that.
It is literally in their blue post, that the levels and steps are bigger. These 2 steps basically spell it out:
The Mythic+ system will have rewards up to level 10, with +2 starting from what would regularly be a +11 in the current Mythic+ system.
A +5 should be as hard as a +15 and +10 should be as hard as a +20 in the current Mythic+ system etc.
There should be a smaller range of keystone levels to find groups for, and more meaningful progression between each level.
There is no chinese there, Blizzard right out confirms: Season 4: keystone level 5 will be the equivalent of a +15 in current M+ and even yield the same rating and rewards at that keylevel.
So that means that the current mount reward at 2000 rating / ie most dungeons timed at 15s, will be rewarded at most dungeons timed at ‘‘just M+5’’.
And the highest itemlevel from the great vault will be from M+10, after that it is just for the ‘‘prestige’’
And i simply said you learn from the bottom. I never said knowledge is 0 when you go in M+2. It was you who gave the exagerating example about learning what pummel is. Not me. To me it was so absurt to not respond at all on it.
But i hope you are aware they current 3 DF seasons we had we didnt had a heroic and mythic 0 version at all of half or more of the M+ dungeon pool. So there was only 1 option to run the dungeon. M+.
I am all fine to be weird. I runned over a thousand dungeons. Imagine i learned something and got on this level.
That is only your shortcoming.
And still you dont understand it. When a 5 is a +15 and a +10 is a +20 that is 5 keylevels difference in both examples. The only thing is plus 10 keylevels. That means only the bottom 10 keylevels are removed. And it isn’t chinese.
We have ‘‘bloat key levels’’ from M+2 up to +20 atm, so those 10 levels dont ‘‘come from the bottom’’
they come from the whole line up of M+ and bring in better steps and progression into the keys.
When i was timing +15s and played for higher keys with friends, we never went through 16s/17s (just a few times to upgrade keys we wanted to 18s) but most of the times we would instantly hop into 18s.
skipping 16s / 17s keys and timing our 18s just fine. those 2 key levels are obsolete.
so instead of ‘‘thinking’’ that they just removed the lower 10 levels, they squished it all together.
but that is too hard to grasp. on top of that is the difficulty increase we get each season, which 100% changes how you have to look at it.
So this time:
Keylevels would be squished by 5-6 levels for Season 4, on top of that: restructered how M+ works and how big the difficulty steps are.
easy as that,
if they would have done this in the new expansion it would have looked different.
but this is my final post, since you arent getting 1 bit of what people are saying anyway.
Yes they do. Otherwise a +5 can not be a +15 and a +10 a +20. That means the scaling between the keylevels has to be the same as now except on plus 10 keylevels. Easy as that. The diagram is also confirming that.
All dungeons and all levels are re-scaled to make it work.
They have to fit the same scaling in 10 levels instead of 20, so they have to cut out 10 levels in total.
and those come from all difficulties. not just the lower 10.
There is no actual data to grasp from said diagram that you can 100% say that, since it has no scaling numbers or information. its merely a illustration how M+ works in Season 3 compared to Season 4.
without any actual scaling numbers.
but sure, keep up your crazy ideas. i already said i would stop posting, but now i will for sure.
Ok i am the crazy one. But the blue is confirming my crazyness.
Mythic+
The Mythic+ system will have rewards up to level 10, with +2 starting from what would regularly be a +11 in the current Mythic+ system.
A +5 should be as hard as a +15 and +10 should be as hard as a +20 in the current Mythic+ system etc.
It literally says, +2 is a +11. Since M0 will be M+10 (but no affixes).
They have cut the bottom 10 keylevels.
It isn’t chinese.
That is only to put a scaling figure on the dungeon difficulty. and to explain how it will look. you cant take any relevant info from that how they squished the other 20 m+ levels into just 10.
If the new M+2 is an 11, where is the 2nd affix? ow wait, that doesnt come in till M+5 in the new system.
what makes M+ harder apart from the scaling of mobs? thats right all the affixes that are active.
+15 has all the affixes already, the new M+5 wont. so it is easier in comparison.
But happy to be able to start at the very bottom and slowly build.