Dragonflight provides an opportunity for some major updates to classes in World of Warcraft with the re-introduction of talent trees. In this preview, we take a first look at the prototype trees for the Hunter and Rogue classes.
Wut? And then a repeated second thread
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Report the other one, it’s fake!
But seriously, nice to have another 2 trees released.
Bummer that it’s not paladin either. 
Though i’ll enjoy looking through the others too. xD
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im starting to think whoever designed the rogue talents never played pvp before cuz that class is just craazy op xD
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Welp. Guess rogues are just not going to be something I’ll ever play again.
Rogues always gets the nerf hammer… The standard everyone else bases them self upon.
Then brough back up later to keep up. Jack of all trades… Master of none.
Outlaw looks amazing
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…Yaaaay Like it wasn’t always the meta until now already but. Yaaaay…
Guess i’ll outlaw or die again.
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Mmm, some pretty good stuff for Outlaw here. Restless Crew in particular looks juicy.
Greenskin’s/Deadshot being part of the spec has been long overdue, very pleased to see it happen. Phrasing suggests the buff has no duration, so can be held indefinitely like Deadshot, which is, again, very nice.
I’m curious about how Fan the Hammer works, though; when it gives multiple stacks of Opportunity, does that just mean you can spam a couple of free pistol shots, or do they give you a stacking damage increase to one free pistol shot, and a ton of extra combo points? If it’s the latter, that’ll have some interesting interactions with Greenskin’s.
Also, please stop neutering Dreadblades. It’s 2 seconds shorter than it was in Legion, and it used to give you a 10% damage increase for its duration as well. I’d like to see those folded back in, since I don’t see why they were changed/removed for the talent version.
Also, what’s the point of having Heavy Hitter when Echoing Reprimand is in the general Rogue tree? Why have two super similar talents like that? Why not just put Heavy Hitter into the general tree, rather than keep Echoing Reprimand? Echoing Reprimand doesn’t even fit thematically outside of Shadowlands.
I am disappointed to see some pretty useless and lacklustre things creeping in, though; Ambidexterity and Triple Threat in particular. Loaded Dice and Sleight of Hand still seem fairly weak as well. I’d rather see new talents in place of these, personally.
Keep it Rolling would be much more valuable with more powerful talents helping out Roll the Bones, since with a 5 minute CD you’d probably just be saving it for when you get 5 buffs, so you might not even use it for an entire encounter.
And, although I understand some people will disagree, I’d quite like to see Ghostly Strike chucked for something more original as well. Very, very boring ability that just adds yet another thing to manage the uptime of.
Also extremely frustrating to see that you are still hard capping Outlaw to 5/8 targets. In fact, there’s a very dissatisfying lack of AoE focused talents on the Outlaw tree in general. Where’s Greed, for example? Is Killing Spree going to be as toothless as it has been the last two expansions?
This seems like a very good starting point to me, though. Will be nice to see what others think and how it gets iterated upon.
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Well its the youngest spec 
gotta keep it good.
Youngest?! No just renamed… Original Outlaw where known as the Combat spec!
They just got a new overhaul in legion to look like Pirates! And not every rogue is into the pirate eastetic or fantasy! Or that spec in general! just saying! Some of us believe it or not find it plain and boring!
Hate how Outlaws have to be caitered too every expension in favor of Sin and sub. How they cry if they aren’t always the meta top dam.
Screw roll the bones!
Screw silce and dice!
AAAAND SCREW BLADE FLURRY! >: C
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I don’t know how people view this and Devs, I really hope you read this. I will do my best to do an analazys of what I see.
So first of. Hunters are basically getting nothing from shadowlands.
That’s the first thing I’m noticing.
Rogues as standard can get Kyrian. That means, it’s possible to build an assassiantion with sepsis and Kyrian ability. That seems a tad strong for me.
More over, sub gets, Kyrian, Sepsis AND venthyr. That’s three covenants in one spec. I mean, if you can’t see how crazy that is, just based of that, I don’t know.
I mean. What ideology are you building classes on? If the ideology was that they’re too strong now, I understand splitting MM into pieces. But BM are still not getting anything that suits the theme of a BM. Mainly concentrating on the pets damage and pet utility. Objectively. What is the point of playing a BM? The pets aren’t even worth it anymore. Every spirit beast is useless due to being tenacity, so they can’t be used in M+, Raids or even pvp. Ferocity and cunning are the leading pets of these contents. Even Devilsaurs as exotic pets are useless, because they have mortal wounds (only good for pvp) but they’re ferocity, which is useless in pvp.
And if the idea was that classes are too strong. Then a simple UH DK can get Empowered Rune weapons from Frost, Unholy Frenzy from Unholy, Double chains of ice, impossible to slow and they still keep “slappy hands”.
Personally, what I find frustrating, is that there is clear power gap between the talent trees so vividly, that the only way you can’t see it. Is because you don’t know what they do. I’m not accusing you of that, but I fail to see the logic behind the choices. I sincearly ask you to review you choices again.
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Deeper strat after alacrity is just bad for sub
Outlaw hasn’t been shoe-horned into the pirate aesthetic since the start of BFA. It’s a catch-all for the brigand/highwayman/pirate aesthetic, which was an aspect of Rogue identity sorely missing from the game beforehand.
It hasn’t been meta for the majority of Shadowlands, either. So, don’t really understand your grudge against it.
…Didn’t we literally have a ability in legion that allowed us to fire cannon fire as aoe damage in legion though? I am pretty sure Legion is what brought the Pirate stuff to rogues
Please consider adding an optional dual-wielding branch on the Survival talent tree. I want to fight with hatchets, not a spear.
If the problem has to do with animations and having to make current ones work with two hands, then I can understand why you’d hesitate. But please try!
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Yes, and that was removed come BFA, plus many abilities and buffs were renamed to be less pirate-specific.
Fine… but still was the meta as far as i remember for m+ since Legion until Shadowlands. It was Outlaw or die.
Sub rogue wasn’t brought up onto par from since TBC until shadowlands I heard.
My grudge comes from all the crying outlaws did at the launch of Shadowlands when Sub rogue wasn’t sucky anymore.
Consecutive concussion?? Will there be a PvP talent or something for it? Will hunters be the paper bags of DMG in pvp and pve?? Do something about it
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And it should be called Combat again. In fact it’s not the only spec that should be renamed.
I don’t know what grammatical rule it’s violating, but you can very clearly see it when you lay it out like this:
- I am a mage specialized in fire.
- I am a druid specialized in feral combat.
- I am a rogue specialized in assassination.
- I am a hunter specialized in survival.
That sounds good buh… uhh…
- I am a rogue specialized in outlaw (???) - fix: I am a rogue specialized in lawlessness
- I am a druid specialized in guardian (???) - fix: I am a druid specialized in guarding (or preservation?)
Funnily enough DH’s are unaffected by the issue, but monks are:
- I am a monk specialized in mistweaver (???) - fix: I am a monk specialized in mistweaving
- I am a monk specialized in brewmaster (???) - fix: I am a monk specialized in brewing
Evoker is also unaffected by the issue.
There’s somebody that’s been fiddling around with spec names and their “work” needs to be undone.
As for the talents: I don’t know enough about the current hunter and rogue details to know whether this is an improvement or not, however what I do know is that half these trees are completely busted OP. No energy cost sap, healing on slice and dice, feint is still as broken as ever, subterfuge is still insane.
I’m not sure what “Seal Fate” means - if I critically strike then I have a 100% chance to gain an additional combo point per critical strike?? I thought I got it as a result of a critical strike - isn’t it sufficient to simply write that critical strikes gives an additional 50/100% chance to give an extra combo point?
Kindda fun to see Thistle Tea around. Heh. Probably too deep in the tree though I suspect.
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