Haha its funny reading all the replies. Its funny how they refuse to understand your texts. Commedy
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So wrong. Pugs cleared +15 in first week without any set pieces. Even month after first id a vast majority cleared 15 without sets
Gear always matters. Its the whole point of this game since vanilla. It really doesnt matter if its required for the content. Its about having fun getting stronger
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Correct, but player expectatioms increase over time.
Vast majority?. Lol u need to check raiderio out more regularly.
Itâs a matter of preference and personal taste 
When I play a game I want to chill and relax - DF doesnât give it to me, while wrath does
Do I want to wipe 100times on a boss? No.
Do I want to brick my dungeon because in a 25mins run one dps missed a single interupt, we wiped and the timer is now off? No
I could give an analogy with pool (biliard game) - I am quite good at it, Iâve used to go to tournaments,etc. But for the last 10 years I only play it casually with my friends - I can do all sort of wacky fun stuff and relax. People ask me why I never come to play in our hall amateur weekend pool tournaments, and the amswer is simple - everyone is giga tryharding and I donât find it fun
Yes, wrath is an easy game, there arenât really very hard content, but that is what brought me to it. Iâve already got my curves, cutting edges and KSMs in retail modern expansions, now I want to relax
As for farming stuff for gold - I donât really need to farm at all, just find something people need, craft a lot of it while afk, put on AH and enjoy content
Iâve played DF a bit, it has good content, estetics are cool, even dungeons are cool. But when you pull a 4mob pack and you are greeted with 2mortars, 2 tank busters, fearing casters, exploding mini mobs, a cast that 1shots random player and what ever more you donât even see - nah, that not for me or that packs in NO - 4 mobs with 10 different mechanics (catch your soul, dodge 3slams, dodge mortars, interupt couple volleys, etc.). Just why?.. I donât find this fun. Why every single trash mob must have 2-3mechanics each?
SL still had a good balance of dangerous/filler mobs. We had dangerous mobs which were obvious (like golems in Spires or HoA, trashers/menders in Mists, some giga mobs in NW, etc) - but there were much more filler mobs, who had like an single non-super deadly ability/cast. Why on week1 in RLP+6 fortified simple mob casts used to hit for 200k into 250k life pools? How is this normal and fun? Probably they are nerfed now, but stuff like this is not normal and it deters players from the game.
If not wrath classic, I would probably be playing on some private server. Fun fact - I started in private server and then migrated to retail in MoP prepatch. And the cycle continues
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I have read a couple of your posts, and agreed on the majority of topics you discussed on, but this one is just bad and feels biased.
Stressful does not equal dynamic. If something is stressful, you donât wanna do it, dynamic on the other hand, alot of people enjoy it. If you donât, stop doing it - simple as that.
Why do you feel you are entitled to BIS gear by doing +15 keys, which are arguably easier than most heroic bosses? I will never get past that mentality - if you take entitlement out, itâs the only logical decision. I know I wonât push that far, and not because I canât, but because I donât care since time spent - reward ratio is just too far off, yet I fully support the loot changes they made. Even M+20 ainât as difficult as some mythic bosses are (also the fact you need 5 for M+, while you need 20 for M raids), but itâs abit more fair for the mythic raiders.
Casuals donât need BIS gear, max rio and 8/8 M. Iâm a casual, and I couldnât care less, as explained before.
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So while WotLK has no M+ you do choose to play M+ on retail and therefore itâs bad? Especially because you play with randoms who fail for whatever reason? How is that the fault of retail?
And why would you need to giga tryhard on retail exactly?
Now is time for analogy. You know these tables which are horribly low quality and you need to insert a coin? Now thatâs WotLK but you have to add a queue of people before you can play. (timegated stuff and loot locks)
Thatâs all cool and all that but you somehow didnât make a single argument why exactly DF means work and WotLK not? I mean I know for a fact itâs the other way around, which is why I was curious what you gonna come up with but somehow you came up with⌠nothing.
- Doing weekly x8 +15-20 is a work (takes like 40-50mins to do a single one - finding group/gathering/doing dungeon)
- Wiping 100+ times on a single boss is a work
These 2 alone are enough for me.
Even reps is a work in DF - in wrath you gain rep passively while doing dungeons (via tabard), I havenât done any dailies specific to factions, but I already got some exalted ones. In DF most of my factions are renown 3-4.
I thought I am simply overburned from wow and I need to find another game. And I found one - Wrath classic
I am not saying one is better than another. Itâs a matter of taste, and my preference is easier and more chill version of the game
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The only guilds that care i would say or those just below the RWF guilds⌠get those guild rankings.
But yea, you dont need to do 20s to clear mythic raid.
You donât need it to clear HC raid.
I think most of the âhateâ is because some people are used to be able to sleep their way through 15s for max loot, and now they canât.
Iâd say, the break point for mythic guilds is having your members do 16s⌠just for the max crafted lootâŚ
The difference between max crafted, and max vault is 3 ilvls⌠its nice to have something extra to chase, but not really needed in order to play the hardest content in the game.
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Well some people would consider it⌠âplaying the gameâ? But who exactly is forcing you to do X amount of anything?
Uhm⌠besides the fact thatâs not true, even for dps specs, how is that different on WotLK? In fact, I quit TBC back then on release because I couldnât find a group for HR, for almost 1 hour, as a healer.
Since we both know, playing with randoms, isnât any different in WotLK than on retail in terms of looking for a group⌠how exactly is this an argument against retail?
What you tried to say was âplaying with negative IQ people is workâ. Well and I ask you again: How does this have anything to do with retail?
Stupid people are stupid everywhere, not just on retail. Yes, even in other games! Shocking, I know.
Congrats, you donât dislike the game, you dislike people in general.
Well⌠I kinda understand now why you wipe 100 times on a boss.
You donât need any reputation in DF at all, while this is not true in WotLK.
I was expecting any logical argument why WotLK is less stressful than DF but you really couldnât name one. I mean, I played both myself and I know for a fact WotLK is more stressful, which is why I am not playing it.
The only âargumentâ you could bring is that you want to achieve more in DF than you do in WotLK and it burns you out but this has nothing to do with the game but with you.
Well Iâve already listed the main reasoning why I donât like current retail direction (a personal point of view), but for some reason you ignored it. I donât know why tbh.
But I will repeat myself:
- I donât like bosses having 20+ abilities each
- I donât like trash pack of 4 mobs having 10+ mechanics (listed several examples above)
These are 2 main deal breakers for me, why I stopped playing retail (and I know a lot more people, who had these 2 reasons as well).
And I never needed more than 2-3minutes to find a group for a heroic/heroic+ in wrath as a dps.
Even finding a raid on thursday/sunday 19-20ST is super fast and easy - you get invited as a dps almost instantly during prime raiding times.
Anyways, people choose what they like, and for now I enjoy classic over retail.
Even my brother who quit retail during SoD (he was much more serious raider, had all cutting edges starting from SoO up to CN) said he will never touch wow again, and here we are now - playing together in wrath and his main reasoning why he quit in the mid of SL - it was mandatory to do m+ in order to raid. Yes, if you want to be high end raider, you must do high m+. And this made him quit.
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no you are not
I actually didnât ignore it.
Which bosses are you talking about? M+?
Letâs take the hardest dungeon as example and have a look, shall we?
Ruby Life Pools
- boss = the good old basic âdodge aoe on the floorâ mechanic⌠bring the aoe thingy (chillstorm) as far away from the group as possible⌠kill adds (is this even a mechanic nowadays?)
Soo⌠even if you call âdodge random stuff on the floorâ and âkill addsâ an actual mechanic, the boss has literally 3, in the currently HARDEST dungeon. Otherwise you could say it has literally just one mechanic which is everything else than hard.
- Boss = Dodge the rolling fire ball, kill + interrupt addâŚ
Again⌠1-2 mechanics, depends on how you want to count it⌠while positioning is the main thing here.
- Boss = focus dragon mainly, dodge fire
I mean⌠thatâs the hardest dungeon btw⌠If anything Blizzard managed to introduce very little mechanics, while still providing some sort of difficulty.
Well and that does not exist. In fact, thatâs what all the âclassicâ PvE people were telling their fairy tales about, how you have to interrupt and cc mobs and how that was good PvE. And thatâs what we have right now. You have few spells that you have to interrupt and some should be CCd, while the CC part is only required in high keys. Purge is something thatâs welcome but not needed.
Well, so itâs technically just basic level of difficulty thatâs too hard for you? Well ok, I understand that, we all are getting older. But then again⌠why would you force yourself into the harder content? What exactly is the issue doing the difficulty that fits more your personal skill level? Thatâs a point I really fail to understand.
Well, thatâs a cool story but I highly doubt that. From what Iâve heard itâs the same bs on all the servers. Tanking/healing for gold and locking loot. The locking loot part was especially a thing in the start.
Well if thatâs true then WotLK lacks much more players than before, which is the reasons why you have free spots in the first place.
Well your brother gotta be a very casual and below average player. How do I know this? I am not even a PvE player, especially not in SL S1 and I cleared the first raid with PvP gear while having 90%+ logs.
So⌠no. You donât need any M+ in order to raid, thatâs pure bullcrap.
So it was not the game. It was his ego? Did you ask him how he could ignore his ego in WotLK and why he failed to do so on retail?
I think this tells the whole story. You are just better than 90% of the playerbase. You maybe want to try to look at all the situations from a 50% player.
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You keep making the same post over and over again, youâre just wording it differently each timeâŚ
I canât do 20âs so I feel like I donât deserve the rewards for doing 20âs, itâs simple really⌠harder content with more effort deserves better rewards than low-effort easy contentâŚ
Please stop making a fool of yourself
I didnât play for 2-3 weeks at start, I am way behind my guild now as they went hardcore on the M+ grind.
I can confirm, I am barely barely competitive towards them at this pointâŚ
I do 16s, they do 20s, the gap is MASSIVE!
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He is pushing himself into the harder content, no one is pushing him there.
We have normal, heroic and mythic level difficulties for different players. Not everyone is supposed to do mythic level difficulty. Not everyone is supposed to clear 25+ keys.
People need to get over their fragile ego and not blame the game for their own insecurities.
You need to do about 40 16+ keys as a raider to get concentrated essences since mythic bosses only drop one.
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Well, players are used to be able to clear certain difficulties with M+ gear. It is great you do not need M+ gear for your raiding adventures but for multiple expansions this is the playstyle for a lot of normal and heroic guilds.
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You were always my favourite poster.
Preach it sister
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I actually had this discussion earlier with my irl friend.
He was complaining doing NM or HC raid is a waste off time since a 30min M+ run gives you better gear then 3hr 2x a week raiding.
But he is also doing keys +6 to 10 range.
I am off the opinionâŚ
Every content type has a gear level required.
For raids I usually go: Min ilvl = Drop gear - 20.
For M+ this kind off works aswell but is blurred out a bit depending team comps/other players.
I was telling him, You are ilvl 382.
You are completely fine to do NM or HC raiding for gear upgrades, you are completely fine to do +6 to +10 keys for gear upgrades.
You actually have the gear specificly for that difficulty range off content.
It is not useless to do NM/HC raids
IF that is the content you are focussing on.
Every player has different visions, goals and expectations and that is where those difficulty levels come into play.
You cannot compare Mythic level gear with NM/HC level gear if you are only aiming to do AotC for exampleâŚ
BUTTTTTT
If you want to remain competitive WITHIN your guild when they are doing M+ runs, you should aswell. You will fall behind (like I did) if you donât.
Do you need it to clear the content? Nah.
Does it help clear you faster? Yeah.
Does it make you look (and feel) bad if you do no dmg due to bieing 10-15 ilvls behind? Hell yeahâŚ
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