Dragonflight - The M+ or DIE expansion?

So am I crazy or is Dragonflight just the M+ expansion?

Feels like M+ has basically become borrowed power of Dragonflight. Where you farm M+ for vaults and crafting ingredients to increase in power.

Want to help your guild progress on normal / heroic raiding difficulties? Well there is only a single choice to gain power outside of raids. Stressful speed running content in the form of m+.

Also interesting. People kept crying about being ´´forced´´ to do World Quests. Being ´´forced´´ to do Islands. By applying the same logic, Blizzard is ´´forcing´´ us to do 8 +20s every week to stay competitive in our guild raids. Amirite?

Really wack how WoW went from an incredible open world social game to what is essentially a toxic speed-run lobby game that re-uses 6-8 year old dungeons.


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You’ll never find that in WoW again I’m afraid. You can even look at classic as proof, once BGs came out the only “PvP” you could find was wiping peoples world buffs outside of raid.

People have changed how they play games compared to when it was released so finding anywhere near that is just something you won’t find in todays age most likely.


I mean yeah, WoW basically became a lobby game since the release of TBC. But at least it was a social lobby game (see Classic TBC and Wrath).

Now? Just crappy stressful speedrunning requiring an entire day spent downloading and installing addons and weak auras.


If your guild runs are stresfull maybe change a guild , stress isnt good for you bro.

But hey , its not m+ only… actualy its quite balanced , m+ only ppls cry about raid since like forever, because blizz is stuck to always out there best weapons, trinkets and sets

I guess it depends on how you play the game.

I don’t really find it stressful, and it certainly doesn’t take an entire day to get addons and WA’s.

As for the social aspect, have you considered talking to your groups? I’ve met plenty of people in runs that I still talk to today.

I was giving the perspective of someone who is new to the game. M+ is stressful content, it isn´t debateable sorry, even if you enjoy it or not. It´s like saying you don´t find SC2 stressful.

My point was that raid design is good because it incentivizes good social interactions. Whereas the current M+ system actually provides a disincentive to socialize with others.


I think you got this wrong.

Just because me and many other PuG a lot doesn’t mean it was actually made for PuGs. M+ is a lot easier and more enjoyable in a steady group, thus it’s incentivizes you to make friends and run with them.


It doesn´t though. Because the current skill gap in M+ is so massive that if you want to succeed and push your key, you are basically incentivized to find completely new ppl almost every time.

Like yeah, good times were had with a DPS player, but at the end of the day he / she almost did the same damage as me as the tank. Can I bring the DPS player to the next run? Yeah, but if I want to actually push my key and succeed I am better off going with another player.

M+ incentivizes playing with ppl at the same skill level as you, not people you actually like, there is a massive and very important distinction.


You can have more than 4 friends you know that right?

I have friends of all skill levels from doing +2 keys and some of them doing +24/+25 keys.

You can find people that you like that are on the same skill level as you, try talking to people. It’s an MMO.

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Nah, Bro, its the solo shuffle PVP expansion.

Feels like you are just looking for forum PvP, because this is the entire point of my post. Having a game that exclusively incentivizes people to play with others who have the same skill level is bad for social interaction in the game. Especially when the skill difference is massive due to Blizzard design choices that increase difficulty.


No I’m just pointing out issues in your post.

You saying “I can’t play with friends cause they’re not as good as me”.
I just follow up with a “You can make more friends”.

Also there is nothing that is stopping people with higher skill level to play with their lower skilled friends, there’s not a cap on the amount of runs you can do a week. You can fill your vault whenever you want, and you can also help out friends and play for fun with them in the same week. Nothing is stopping you except for you.


I have no friends and nobody likes me. Your declaration is moot!

I have to say it is very impressive how you move the goal posts every single time. Well done, this clearly isn´t ur first forum PvP match.

I never said I can´t play with those people. I use it as an example where the game gives a disincentive to play with other WoW players. We are talking game design. How the GAME provides an incentive to play with others.

Legion gave an incentive to run with bad players to run a +15 because of

B) Titanforging

The current game gives no incentive to run with bad players in a guild for a +15 at all. There is no incentive at all, provided by the game.

That doesn´t mean I can´t still do it. As you point out. But from a game design perspective we are talking about how M+ in its current form is extremely toxic to incentivizing social interaction in what was once a social game.


If you have done this weeks spark quest it unlocks looting Bottled Essences from any content. Including low m+ runs. Gratz, now you can queue with your friends and get sparks.

Use whatever terms you want. You said you can’t run with friends and it turns out it’s just cause you dislike them for being worse than you.

Nice pro forum PvP move. Just making up stuff that I straight up never said. Very impressive!!

Can´t wait for you to quote my old comment here and try to make a bad faith interpretation to prove your point. Another pro move incoming!!


Good summary. You got the actual point why this expansion is doomed. It’s not just because m+ is harder or loot scarcity is still there.

It’s because if I have to fill up my vault I must ignore my friends which can’t hold up to the skill level of +20. With limited time I need to run in pugs trusting high Rio players.

But this would have been not an issue with +15 vault cap


Okay homie.

He got a point If you run with friends that are not able to play +20 you are missing the max ilvl gear.