With that line of thinking, should I conclude then that warmode is not optional?
Or mythic raiding is not optional? Etc.
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By that logic, they would have to just unlock every single achievement by default for everyone without gameplay involved, which is obviously non-senseā¦
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Yeah but equal rewards are for equal paths thatās just differ by the way you play but they are equal in difficulty.
Traveling by ground is much harder then travelling with dragonflying.
So the harder activity ofcourse gets a bonus reward just like mythic raids have unique mount drops
You both are right, I did not think of it like that. Thank you for the correction.
Therefore you agree with me that this solution should be more rewarding than the other two. This means that not only should it give the unique rewards tied to it, it should also provide every other reward at equal rate or higher (exp/hour, gold/hour, materials/hour etc.)
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Nope.
A unique reward? Like a mount a Titel or a mog?
Sure that a good reward for a challenge done. Would still like to see blizzard putting challenges in the game like iron man pacifist and such stuff.
But saying using a ground mount should give you a unique reward AND should be made that you have the same or even higher exp/hour gold/hour is not what I would want.
First of all how do you even measure that?
And second if you even put in more gold/hour you simply want to force as many people into ground mounts as possible which sounds like you simply dislike flying
Obviously it can never be equal. At best it can be āfairerā. You measure it like this:
- Check how many enemies you can kill in a set time with Skyriding assuming you are running around doing World Quests and regular quests instead of just standing still to farm. Check how many enemies you can kill in the same set time with ground mounts and similar scenario. Apply an exp, gold, etc. multiplier to the slower case to bring the results as close as possible
- Go on a gathering trip with Skyriding, say for 30minutes. Check how many materials you gather. Go on a gathering trip with ground mounts for the same amount of time and check how many materials you gather. Apply a multiplier in materials yielded to the slower case to bring them as close as possible.
- For obvious reason the multiplier for the case of grounded mounts should not apply the exact moment a player lands. There should be a grace period. In another thread I had suggested, with very rough numbers, that if a player has not used a flying mount to fly in the last 2 minutes then give a X% bonus to everything, and if it has been 5mins increase it to 3X%.
- Find outliers to prevent exploitation.
But hereās the catch! You admit that the reward-per-hour is the metric upon which some players decide their mode of transportation. Therefore you agree that there are players right now who would like to stay grounded but simply choose not to because they would be actively sabotaging their gameplay sessions by doing so. This is the exact argument I have been trying to convey on why Flying is so popular: Not because people like being on the sky, but because itās the absolute most efficient way of playing.
I donāt dislike flying per se, but I do dislike that it is another tool given to players which trivializes content (fly in, do something, fly out avoiding combat).
Who?
The mythic raider? The delver?
A heal spec or a tank?
The fury warrior jumping from mob to mob or the blood DK that simply pulls every single mob there is. Or affliction lock that has to dot and dot and dot and caaaast?
Who gathers? Do we count in gathering while mounted? Do we factor in thing like druids?
And then again do we factor in how fast some classes can clear the mobs stopping you from.gathering.
Do we factor in things like other players gathering at the same time so sometimes you get struck with a lot of down time cause everything is despawnt?
If so do we only count ground gathering against ground gathering cause thatās not what would happen in reality.
And yes of course flying is popular because itās more effective thatās nothing I would deny and there is no way that would ever change even if they would find a fair solution to say with how much ground traveling should be buffed.
In the end I still support to either make a challenge out of it for a mog and a Titel and a cool mount and I mean a reeeeaaally cool one.
Or go back to unlocking flying.
Yes many people hate that but I think thatās just cause Blizz alway made it a chore.
Just put flying and by that I mean both types behind the campaign.
Reach max level and finish the campaign unlocks flying for the whole account.
And donāt make it a finish season one story thing so they can time gate it.
If I choose to take my warri twink and burn through the story in 5 hours without looking at anything or reading anything just to have flying I should be able to do so. No time gating
Thatās what I did. Used exclusively a ground mount till I hit max level.
The zones are designed with dynamic flight in mind (Both in size and in elevations), it would be horrible to have to scurry around on the ground in them, why do people keep asking for things to be made worse?
Itās the zone design thatās the problem, how do you imagine travel in Azjākahet?
The southern half of the zone is a bunch of suspended platforms with walkways, all crammed full of mobs, so to get from the Weaverās lair to the city itself, youād be wading through spiders for half an hour, unless you take a flight path of course, but then youāre flying again, ruining the āimmersionā.
Iām so sorry looks like I accidentally answered in German ^^
Anyway you are ofcourse right but thatās cause the zones right now got designed like that which could change if they designed the zones again with walking until campaign end in mind.
Thatās ofcourse not a must. Something like a ground mound challenge could also be cool.
Ofcourse people that want to use ground mounts could just use them but I think most of them would also like to se others use them so with a challenge you get some people to do it but it isnāt forced.
That could be a compromise
Itās just that designing zones for ground mounts and for dynamic flight is mutually exclusive, due to the sheer scale required to keep the speed of dynamic flight from becoming overkill.
Just try dynamic flight on Siren isle, the place is positively tiny at those speeds (Same goes for the old world, BTW), but riding on the ground across any DF/TWW zone is a huge distance, and thatās just in a straight line, as the mount flies so to speak, not counting detours around mob-filled quest areas, or big climbs/drops that you need to find the tiny safe path (If one exists) to get past.
So making a zone good for one form of travel makes it a pain in the neck for the other, and i donāt really see a way to fix that.
Yeah thatās not wrong.
Then maybe going with the ādo it as a challengeā route is better then forcing it on every one
The average player, or in other words samples of many playstyles. Even an incomplete sample size is better than saying āIgnore everyone who does not use the optimalā
In another thread I managed to get people to agree that if we had the option between skyriding and instant teleportation without cooldown to anywhere in the world, the instant teleportation option would be more popular. We already see it with people entering Priory with NPCs and then exiting immediately to āinstantlyā teleport to the Hallowfall new quest area. Or with everyone going through the portal in Dornogal to AzjKahet instead of flying.
Players will always flock to the most efficient path, unless it significantly ruins their gameplay experience. At which point they are likely to quit altogether than continue with the suboptimal playstyle. Thatās why I want rewards between different playstyles to be as equal as possible (assuming similar challenge as well).
Pandaria had flying locked behind max level + access to Vale of Eternal Blossom (which meant you had to have progressed through quite a bit of the story, or at least the right parts of the story) + 5k gold.
WoD, Legion, BFA had flying locked behind pathfinder achivements.
In Shadowlands it was locked behind renown.
At the end of the day, if flying ruins your immersion then donāt fly, but I am sick and tired of having to spend 55 minutes out of every hour fighting mobs I donāt need to get to the one I do.
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