Dungeaon Gear and Valor Upgrades

Community General Discussion
21

I thought the main point that they would not struggle to get gear, with the current system.

I still fail to see how does it affect you.

Instead of pushing 2X+, y’all still prove how elite your are by clearing 3X+, while less skilled gamers will be stuck at lower key levels.

We often hear from the M+ community that they don’t care about gear, or they would have just stop at 15s in SL, which was the cap for gear upgrades.

We had fun in MoP’s challenge mode, and there were no gear involved (expect the socketed pieces if you wanted to beat server timers).

If John and Darcy are able to get fully geared no matter the key level they play at, there will still be a point when gear will not be enough for them to succeed. They will not then be able to clear it in time, and you will, thanks to your skills.

Why do you care so much ?

22

I wouldnt care a second when someone would just get Top IlvL BiS gear from the mailbox the moment they get on the zeppelin to dragonflight. But i just do not think it really makes sense.

23

Am I wrong to understand that there will still be a rating requirement for the max-level upgrade of gear using valor ?

24

Yes. that is answered in post 2.

25

Good thing WoW using a softcap in the M+ and PvP rating.

As it should.

26

After reading through the post and the OP’s replies…

I conclude…
It’s simply a “Get good” topic.

27

People won’t struggle for gear if they can go up in key level, exactly like in raid or PvP if you can step up your game.

So i don’t get why M+ must be different and give M20 loot farmable by spamming M2.

It does not, but what is the point of scaling content?Affixes?Etc?

I can start season farming full gear in 2s, wait till people figure out strats, and then roflstop my way to portal and ksm full decked in 20s upgraded gear that i farmed spamming +2.

What sense does this make exactly?

It is like if you could farm the first boss of the raid endless in Normal, and after few weeks of farming you end up with a full Mythic set, that people doing Mythic have yet to obtain cause they are trying to beat harder bosses.

Does this make sense to you? Because it does not.

Few randos does not speak for a community and for sure it is not enough to be a “proof” to sustain your argument.

Challenge Modes were indeed fun but were not a Gearing Path unlike M+ now.

They are still able to get to point that they would not be able to reach otherwise if such gear was not in their hands.
You are actively screwing up the “pushing” part of the equation by giving gear that is higher than the challenge you are facing by farming base content.

Because it would create an horrible environment for everyone.

+2 infested with farmers that wanna speedrush
People would decline your John and darcy in favor of other high scored people that would join in to stomp +2.

If you want better gear you just go higher. Period.

3 Likes
28

You have to work for gear, thats WoW. A +9 or higher isnt that difficult, put in the work - reap the rewards.

29

makes that u need to LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME … instead of complain

30

Why wouldn’t it make sense ?

Others MMOs, that Star Wars game for example, have made grinding for gear pretty easy.

Everyone is equally geard, and skilled players are still able to clear content that less-skilled players can’t.

It’s the purest form of “get gud” there is. No nonsense, no timegate.

I’m not saying WoW should be like that, or should’ve ever been like that. I’m just questioning why WoW should not try to change a decade old formula.

And we’re far from this kind of system anyways. You will still need to get rating to upgrade your gear to max-level (thank you Tsjoh). I have not read yet information about a weekly valor cap. If there isn’t, skilled players will still have higher gear quickly than others.

I don’t know, they were pretty vocal on the forum last season. I might be wrong though, you’re right.

To be fair, I don’t think I am. As I’ve stated in a previous post, “pushing” in DF will maybe mean you start from 20, or 25, or idk, as opposed to pushing in SL at 15 or 20+.

Giving gear to people (that will most likely don’t play with you anyways, because of score) does not negate the challenge that you will face.

This kind of environment is already there. I don’t think I have to remind you of S4 of SL, and that valor farm.

Anyways, as I’ve stated, people will tend to group up with people that have the same kind of score. That won’t change in DF.

I was under the impression that the appeal of M+ was the challenge part. At some point, people will have equal gear, but the challenge of M+ is endless, and skill tend to more and more important as you progress. Gear then is just a mean to an end, and not the core reward.

I would love to be proven wrong though.

31

so what u want just grind +2 to get loot which u can get on +20 … that is not way how game should work … simply u need to play and improve

32

I think it is safe to assume we got a valor cap. Season 4 in SL was a short intermission season where they could not put up a cap for valor where you know it takes more than the full seasons time to upgrade half the gear from max level end of dungeon to max valor ilvl.

It will fix this stupid valor grind groups in +2. It is not going to happen :slight_smile:

1 Like
33

All good then :smiley:

Even with this “new and easier” system, people that are “putting the work” will still have gear that most players won’t have, until at least an advanced point in the season.

34

Yes and i did not say otherwise, just that it is not full stop at one lvl, but have slow progression so you at one point can overcome the hurdle, is anyone reading the post?

35

I already explained why.
It makes you skip the entire climb up and go from 0 to max reward stage, it does not make sense.

Everyone start at the same +2 level, and with the same possibilities so i do not get what is not “pure” about M+ climbing.

People that go to +15 the very first day started the same as johh and darcy from +2 and went up and up and up till 15 or 20.

Because you somehow seem to imply that “skilled player” are carried by gear that fell from the sky and not because they are good, while the poor john/darcy are unable to progress because they do not have the gear that the good players have.

And you somehow forget the fact that people geared in 20s gear, had to actually start from +2 and push up to 20s, exactly like the hard stuck people.

So i am sorry but i fail to see the unfairness in this.

Pushing start from +2. Everyone is pushing the very first day of the season. Just because at a certain point “pushing” does not reward better gear anymore does not mean that “pushing” is just beyond that point.

If you are a casual player that always hanged around 6 keys, if this season you go to +10/+15 you are still actively pushing, getting in a range that is harder and with more affix to manage.

But with your method, even the player stuck at 6, can simply go back at +2, stomp +2 all day the first month, and then month 2 of the season you have ton of people with zero experience but a lot of gear trying to get into 15/20s, basically skipping the entire process of “going up/pushing”.

It is not a matter of playing with me or not.
Is a matter of making +3 to +20 useless range (outiside of seasonal rewards) of keys because you will be constantly dumping down your key to farm +2, and then totally skip the climb to go into 20s already geared as if you completed them for the past month.

Gear is still a reward, in every game mode out there and people like receiving gear. As i said, not putting any form of “cap” to it, would be like being able to farm Mythic raid gear from Normal raid.

And there is a reason this was basically never the case.
(Aside some super duper giga luckly titanforging)

36

But that is exactly why i want this system, to improve`??

I really struggle to see the problem. person 1 clears +15 in 2 weeks is decked out and keeps going for +20

person 2 is stuck at +2 clears that for 2 weeks get valor at the end to upgrade gear to in the end clear +3 and so on and so on, why on earth are anyone arguing about this, it is a slow progression to get over a cap you get at your lvl of M+

what you guys say now is GIT good or get a group of players that do not leave or else play +5 over and over without having any progress, why is that a better design than having to play + 5. say 5-6 times times and atleast out of those 5-6 times you get the possibility to upgrade 1 item from 395 to 402, then after 5 more you get another one to 402, Hurray, you can now possibly clear a +6. it is a good way of progressing over time in one patch without feeling stuck.

37

Exactly.
I have been exclusivily pugging M+ for the last 3 expansions and have had zero trouble getting up to +20 range.

Sure sometimes ppl leave, but if you are a 3 stack and ppl leave continuesly, it might be a time to concider why they leave…

At no times ever should you get rewarded the way you suggest.
You won’t improve, only your gear will, untill a point gear won’t carry you anymore, and you’ll annoying anyone around you.

38

This has nothing to do with what i want from the first post though, you will have a honor cap to progress every week, so dumping to +2 would not work

It is a cap every week making SURE you hve small progress whne stuck, this will take several weeks to even get close to what people clearing 15-20 would have. it is just a system to not be stuck at 395 for the rest of this patch.

39

It is already in place, in S4 there were like 3 “score cap” that you had to meet to keep upgrading, with 298 being upgradable at 2k score.

KSM/2k was doable with like 30 ilvl less than 298, so i fail to see how you are stuck.

40

simply only what i dont want to see that u can with almost 0 m+ points option to upgrade to max item level … simply that u need to get m+ score before u can upgrade … even just doing +5 key and only using +5 gear u will be able to do +10 for sure