Dungeon "tactics"

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
1

Hello Blizzard.

I’ve been playing since vanilla, on/off.
I like being warrior and since pandora I liked proc, for all it’s quirks, especially in PVP.

Recently I’ve done a little instances (for the gear, yes I’ve sold out, I know…), and I find it kinda complicated. “Tactics” in wow instances seems to be right on par, with “spit over your right shoulders, while jumping on one leg” (unless it’s mythic, than it’s your left shoulder and grab your crouch, while licking the healers ear, ((unless he/she is undead ofc…)). You get my drift, I’'m sure.

I don’t think tanking is any fun anymore. There does not seem to be any logic to the tactics. Maybe we should help blizzard with suggestions, to make it more fun and to avoid the “spit over your right shoulders, while jumping on one leg” tactics, because they seem to be at a loss.

I’m horde. I just like to smash heads. Should I ask anything of blizzard, it would be this. Don’t make instances, overly complicated, or necessary to have a diagnose, to play. Let the people with diagnoses play the raids, with unnecessary “tactics” and and keep the instances fairly simple.

Just my two cents.

1 Like
2

Whops, main char here.

3

Dungeon tacts are literally “don’t stand in the fire”, what are you on about?

At most you have to soak something or maybe use your stun/fear/cc somewhere…

2 Likes
4

Haven’t seen any detailed tactics been used in BfA dungeons below 15 keys. Normal heroic and below 15 keys are a joke, tactics are mostly just avoiding extra dmg.

5

What you’re saying makes little sense to me.

Most dungeon mechanics are well telegraphed. The first time you run into a boss who does a frontal cone attack it may be a total surprise to you, but the second time you’ll notice a pizza-slice of “bad” lighting up, just before he finishes that cast, and then you’ll likely never be caught of guard by it again.

Once you’ve learned a few abilities this way, you’ll notice that there are few super original mechanics employed in 5-man dungeons, and that most are just based on some template (such as “frontal cone attack”) that they employ in a way dressed up to fit the dungeon.

Look a little further and you’ll notice that abilities with “earth crumbling effects” tend to do physical damage and those with say a purple effect do shadow damage, that gives you valuable information as well (shadow damage = spell damage = your spell reflect CD might be useful).

Because of those things, i don’t really think your “spit over your right shoulders, while jumping on one leg” description holds any water at all. Almost all the mechanics are both logical and straight forward if you pay a little attention.

As for tanking no longer being fun, well that is of course completely subjective. I will grant you that tanking has changed a lot over the years. Things that used to be core parts of a tanks job are now effectively irrelevant in most cases (such as threat building and management), but at the end of the day if you don’t enjoy tanking anymore you could always try another role or class/spec instead.

Anyway, all that being said, as others have already remarked as well, unless you’re doing high end content (compared to your groups gear- and skill level) the mechanics are incredibly tolerant so you can fail a lot and still make it through alive.

As for your whole diagnosis spiel, i have no idea what you’re even on about with that, it frankly makes you sound quite idiotic. The vast majority of wow players, including people from all ages, sexes, etc, tend to play the occasional dungeon (be it queuing for heroics or doing +15 keys), and i don’t think many of them experience it like you say you do, they certainly don’t fit any specific type of person.

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6

No, just no.

I don’t want to read and/or memorize “tactics” for 5 bosses, times however many instances there is in a given expansion.

Keep.
it.
simple.

7

That’s why i said, between the telegraphing and the vast majority of things being unoriginal/templated, you really don’t have to memorize dungeon encounters.

The exception is of course when you plan on pushing high end keystones, but then that’s a choice you make, and Blizzard doesn’t push anyone towards that.

You can get by perfectly well in mythics and low- to middle end keystones just going by the telegraphing and/or shout outs from a bossmod.

If even that is too much effort then there is always normal or heroic mode i suppose. There are enough valid complaints around regarding dungeons, but i don’t really think this is one that holds water.

3 Likes
8

well if you dont want to then dont do them? Or do them at a difficulty level where they dont matter.

It.
Is.
Simple.

2 Likes
9

Stick to normal then, that’s simple…

10

They kinda do push people in that direction, if you want better gear for PVP.
Imo, it’s just overly complicated, with buffs, debuffs, stand here, there, don’t stand there etc.

11

buffs and debuffs? Not that many lethal ones in lower keys (let’s say up to at least 10?). And for “stand here, don’t stand there”, yes you have to avoid “stuff” on the floor, that’s hardly a tactic. More or less common sense.

Other than that there aren’t that many special tactics required for the dungeons. Heck, there are quite some fights where “don’t stand in nasty stuff” is the main “mechanic” (again, for “lower” keys), how is that complicated?

If we make it much easier you don’t have to do anything special at all.

12

I’m gonna be a douche here and say that if you can’t grasp the easy concept of not standing in bad stuff and interrupting a spell here and there, you are not gonna do well in PvP either. Or are you expecting to walk into every Ring of Frost there or let the mage cast Greater Pyros to your face and still do well? There’s way more spells and tactics to memorize for PvP than there is for 15+ and lower keys.

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13

Keystones higher than 10 do not give increased item level rewards. Granted people do get a little extra residuum and AP in their chest at the end of the week, but that is a pretty weak reason to feel forced to do stuff you do not like, and unless you’re worried about being the best geared person in the first few weeks of a new season it gets overshadowed by just about any other insignificant factor, making it pretty meaningless.

Doing keystones in the +8 +10 range to get the highest ilvl rewards really does not involve a whole lot more than just looking at whats telegraphed on the floor as said before.

14

I see where you are coming from and I kind of agree, that PvP and PvE gear should get separated so you get the best PvP gear in PvP and the best PvE gear in PvE (at least the second holds true for the most part).

But if you want to do the more difficult PvE content (and even if only for the gear), than get to know what you have to know. There is an easy normal version if you don’t want to know anything, there is heroic and M0 to get to know the mechanics without a big risk and even if you want to have a chance at better gear there are groups that easily carry someone up till high levels of M+ (payed or for friends). If the gear you can aquire in an easy way is not enough, learn to play the more difficult content.
I do fully realize that depending on the own abilities, interests and possible investment easy keys can range from no key at all up till 18 (heard some MDI casters calling the keystones in the MDI are ranging in the easier parts they run, so probably for some they range even beyond that), but they scale for a reason and they even cap the maximum reward at +10 what is pretty easy for most players that are interested in M+ at the current stage.

15

@Rainstorm - PVP and PVE are two VERY different animals. I’m gonna be a douche here and say, if you haven’t gotten that aspect yet, you’re not going to do well in either PVE or PVP…

Most people play the same spec, in pvp, fire mage, fury, flavor of the month class etc… Not a lot to remember. As I mentioned I play proc warrior, and even though it’s an old class you’ll see people that have no idea what to do against protection, thereby nullifying your argument.

Listen kids. I don’t want to remember +20 different “tactics” in a part of the game that gives me NO satisfaction what so ever (PVE). If you haven’t continuasly been onboard from the start, you will lack gear, for PVP since they decided to lose the DMG and HP boost you got, in Legion, when entering a BG, even with crappy gear.
Saying that’s not an issue is like saying you can tank myth +10 once you hit lvl 120. That’s just not realistic.

The only thing they accomplish with this system is:

  1. People leave the game, waiting for the next expansion, which they’ll f… it up in 100 of other way, as we know.
  2. People play instances, but don’t bother to learn “tactics”, annoying the sh.t out of the rest of the team.

I’ve said this SOOOOOO many times over the years. Don’t force people to play something they do not enjoy, to get to enjoy the game.
If the game isn’t fun on it’s own, it’s just not good enough.

Make sure people only meet people with roughly the same GS, or even better, make the same system as in Legion.

16

No, I do not agree. Often you can’t see it on the floor, only on you char and you have to go to a very specific area to get debuffed or some other idiotic crap.

17

I have a CE but sure, go off and tell me how I won’t do well in PvE.

Point of not standing in bad and interrupting still stands. As I mentioned in my post as well, which you so handily ignored, was that up until +15 keys (and gear rewards cap at +10) you can get by just not standing in bad stuff on the floor. It legit does not require you to memorize anything. All it requires is a reaction of “Oh, that thing was not part of the floor before, so I better not stand in it.” For interrupts, while there are some spells that are better to interrupt, using your interrupt on any spell that can be interrupted is going to be worth it if you aren’t doing very high keys. You see a mob casting a spell and your interrupt is not on cooldown? Use it. Job done.

Listen buddy. All of us in this thread have been saying this over and over again. You need exactly TWO tacts for m+: don’t stand in stuff on the floor and interrupt. There is nothing else. I elaborated this on the point above.

18

@Rainstorm - It’s not that simple. I gave you an example which you, so conveniently ignored…

Often it’s a debuff, of some sort, which mean you have to stand in a very specific and not specified location, to get rid of.

It could also be a tree that has to stand in fire, or a mech that can’t stand in coins, just to mention a few examples. Al sorts of idiotic “tactics” in which I have NO interest what so ever, and do NOT find amusing in any way or form and only do for the possibility of gear, resources, pussy or whatever the f… that motivates us, as a spices.

The point is. IT’S NO FUN. You’d have to have a diagnose to enjoy doing it again, and again, and again, and… you get the picture, I’m sure.

There is another post going, about a guy that can’t find a group. People want to go through instances/raids as fast as possible. You’d think they’d take their time and enjoy the challenge, getting killed, try out new “tactics”, right?

That’s not the case. People rush it, because, IT’S NO FUN.
It may not be too difficult, if you bother learning the “tactics”, but it’s boring AS HELL, and a lot of people don’t want to bother tanking, for that very same reason.

Every single class that came since vanilla, has had the option to tank. Why do ya think that is…?

19

No thanks, I dont want to do boring dungeons where we can stand in one spot, afk while picking our nose and mashing our head on the keyboard for 2 mins. I dont find that entertaining in the slightest.

Which btw is as much you have to do to complete a +10 dungeon anyway.

Its like asking that blizzard makes your pvp opponent immobile and rooted, and you can use them as a target dummy now.

If you find dungeon tactics so complicated compared to knowing how to fight against xy spec, all 30+ then you have problems.

Most dungeons are literally tank and spank with using your interrupts once in a while until you get to a level thats actually takes long enough to make it challenging.
With current gear you could afk with the first boss in gold piles in motherlode and afk tank and spank the tree boss in waycrest instead of resetting your stacks with putting the boss in fire once in a while.

20

Actually most people just ignore the mechanic of dragging it to the fire because that does more damage than just letting it hit the tank. High keys/tyrannical weeks can be an exception but that’s how most people do it.

This is a prime example of “Stuff wasn’t there before, move away from it.” which, again, isn’t that hard.

I’ll tell you a secret. I hate m+ with a passion but because of the rewards it gives, I have to do it every single week as to not drop below others and lose my raid spot. I’ve never found it enjoyable, and I never will. Still took me only one run through each dungeon to realize what to do and what not to do. The tactics really aren’t hard. There was no need to analyze things over and over again. Just getting chunked in health once was enough to make me go “Oh, that’s bad. Let’s not do that again.”

And? If people can’t be bothered to learn simple things, they don’t really deserve the rewards for it. Even if it wasn’t their main activity in the game.

I like tons of PvP sets and the mounts, but because I find PvP utterly boring, I’ll never get any of them. Yet I’m not yelling in the PvP forums for the content to be made simpler or the rewards to be easier to achieve.