Hello there, I would like to address one of the topics regarding social aspect of the game (especially classic one, not retail). Recently I have experienced a dungeon kick, it was nothing serious, usual hc gamma run, but my main concern was the complete absence of communication, when the kick happened. And I am not wanting to spread a whine about deserter debuff or whatever, but just talk about the communication issues regarding kicks in the dungeon group.
I understand that nowadays community is not that much social anymore, and if everything goes smooth no one says word. But at least I would like to expect from people that if they want to kick someone from the group for example they at least tell about the issues they have with the player beforehand (like for example: he pulled before tank, not enough damage or wiped the party etc.) and then if the certain player did not actually listen then they kick him. That would be the case for normal situations in my opinion, so the party members will firstly try to talk to a member causing issue and then if he fails to listen then removing.
But many times there are like no communication in group at all, and then someone gets kicked and also no words about it. And the most funny thing can happen after the kick, if you try to ask any member of the group why they kicked you, they just put you in ignore.
And this is the problem to me, that quite often people will not even try to tell you if you doing something wrong and just straight kick. I could understand that obvious things like party wipe donât require much explanation, but what if it seems to be quite perfect run, no wipes, you going good through the dungeon, and then the kick just happens.
Also one more thing regarding dungeon kick system UI: there is a voting window with the reason for kick given, which is visible to any member of the group except the guy who gets kicked, Maybe if devs implement the same window but without voting for the kicked member after he gets kicked stating the reason for kick, which was given by the member of the group initiated kick that would be nice and then even solved the above mentioned problem (at least partially).
Anyways thatâs all what I wanted to talk about in this topic so far, feel free to discuss and thank you for attention, and I hope maybe even some blizzard dev might read it as well.
TLDR: Often dungeon kicks happen without any communication in the group and this seems to be not very good in terms of social interactions between the group members in the dungeon. The feature showing the kick message with a stated reason for the kicked group member would partially solve this problem.
From forum and dungeoneering experiences so far, the kick reason is half the time entirely gibberish and the other half of the time a filled in reason but not necessarily the truth such as âasdasdâ or âtank ninjapulledâ while the player being kicked, is another player.
Thereâs also a delay on clicking yes, so oftentimes I just click no and then address it in the party chat which leads to either no one saying anything, me getting booted, or a wild toxic guy starting to scream (then he getting booted).
While giving the reason of the boot would give some minor clarity it doesnât entirely solve anything if thereâs a âno reasonâ kind of reason filled in or no one wanting to speak about it. Iâm quite sure the next suggestion will become âreport abusive kick reasonâ or something after this feature anyway.
Very easy and original solution btw: after kicking someone, all party get âsleepâ effect (not dispellable) for 3 minutes and canât continue doing dungeon while waiting. This effect doesnât occur if kicked person was afk (not doing any actions) for more then 1 minute. The point is: usually people who doing kicks for random reasons (for example dps) are âspeedrunningâ dungeon so this effect will stop them for some time. But person can still be kicked if there is a real reason for it, for example afk (in this situation effect doesnât occur) or griefing (in this situation you get this effect, but situations of griefing on purpose are not very often so okay, just wait 3 minutes). But this will stop kicking people for dps or most other random reasons.
If the kick goes through and there was no reason to do so I quit the group also, better when Iâm tanking so it affects them more.
I put up a little message explaining there was no need to this to happen and maybe next time they should take a deep breath and not get their nickers in a twist.
9/10 caseâs itâs some sweat lord who hasnât washed for a couple weeks crying about someone dps not being as high as thereâs, like itâs some sort of personal indignity
Yeah, these ideas look cool, for example the âsolutionâ with sleeping party would maybe actually make the people talk to each other, anyways nothing to do in these 3 minutes, so they could start at least communicate with each other. But yeah the most usual reason for kicks ig is âlow dpsâ or something like that. And in this case it just shows how sweaty and toxic the community has become. I doubt that this could be solved on blizzard side, because these are mainly problems caused by âpeople being peopleâ and is not necessarily an abuse or something, or at least it would be really hard to determine such.
As my suggestion, I would like to just being shown the reason for kick after the kick occurred, which is not that hard to implement. Maybe as more advanced solution, implement possibility to report âunjustifiedâ kicks.
And also when someone decides to kick without proper reason, not everyone in group will buy it, at least it happens more often that kick doesnât came through, because clicking no on kick is faster and if there is reason something like âasdâ then other people with common sense would not agree to it, they would like actual reasoning for why they should kick anyone.
And yeah overall, the community seems to mostly have mentality âburst, quick, outâ nowadays, as it would be not usual hc gamma, but mythic +20 or something where they need their precious time being used as much effective as possible. Sometimes just wanting to say âcalm down, it is just a game, no need to rush that hard through the dungeonâ. Even if there is not so good dps in group, but everything else goes smooth, you might lose like 3-5 minutes max, because being slower, but still you will complete dungeon, get your loot or currency. But once again it is not for blizzard to fix, these are community issues which depend on how the people like to act in certain situations.
And I am kinda agreeing with the statement that ârdf ruined social interactions in dungeonâ, because now ppl just need to press 1 button to find a group and thatâs it, no talking needed. The best solution to this problem for me is just running dungeons with a guild, so you know what to expect. And these runs usually happen to be much more chill than anything with randoms
Just being kicked from a dungeon after 2 packs with no reason: no chats, no words, dps was good. Kicked just for their fun with probably reason âasdasdasdâ and got 30 min debuff. This is no sense.
Most of the time I can guess the reason for being kicked:
low DPS
suboptimal rotation
dying frequently
dying, getting lost and left behind
separating from the group to pick quest item
We just have to understand that most wow players are in their 30s with jobs and families and have very little time to play and just donât have time to spare while one of the players in the group is doing their own thing.
Well they also kicks you because you share a loot from a specific boss or when you warn a player cause of ninja pulling unnecessary mobs for his rep and making dungeon run much more longer. But mostly cause peopel love to abuse system. Like they mass report people when their auctions re undercuttedâŚ
I think there should also a punishment for those who kick people without a reasonable thing. They should be banned from loots and valor point gains from both dungeons and raids for a week maybe; that can solve the problem.
I can still report the player even if he did not said a word, just memorise the nickname and boom - reported, no big deal, maybe not directly in the chat but from âwhoâ window it would be possible to report ig anyways, did not tried it but might work as well.
So if you encountered the guy for first time ever and he was doing not well enough for you you would just kick them, even if he is quite nooby and learning. Anyways anyone who feels offended if someone in their Random dungeon group doing 10% less dps then everyone else can maybe just try run these dungeons in guild group with like minded people and donât spoil rdf by their elitist expectations, but this is another topic kinda.
Last 3 totally alright, first 2 more like having elitist feeling about your group and wanting that everyone only pumped big numbers without any exquse for mistakes
In general, I feel like blizzard could implement some sort of punishment for people who just kick everyone they donât like, like maybe if you kicked 3 people in a row during last hour you should get a debuff for 24h disabling you from kicking anyone
Nah. This is a completely legitimate request. Thereâs absolutely no legitimate reason why the kicked person shouldnât see why they were kicked.
And sorry, but you afraid that this could reported then? Are you okay with racist and sexist remarks on the kick voting pop-up? Or user harassment?
This sounds like a lovely idea, imo. One thing that should happen before that though:
Other party members should be made aware if a player was removed from the party or raid, either by vote or the leader.
Never understood why does it only say âXYZ has left the groupâ when it is factually incorrect. XYZ has been removed from the group.
To display the reason and then likely to report the reason even if the reason is entirely illegible or empty and disagreeing with the votekick increasing moderation burden on Blizzard while effectively no rule is broken in the first place.
The suggestion to report actual harassment, which the player can already do so if any player actually harasses them through chat is already in place which is different from using the any or no reason kick which is not deemed abusive.
Incorrect, no report option is available for dungeon kicking as it is not against the rules. Only chat harassment may be reportable if any occured which is something Iâve already stated previous.
It is already not violating a policy of Blizzard. Namely:
Iâd recommend to suggest any changes to the VTK through the ingame suggestion box but it will not likely include a report option for reason field votekicks.
Except that currently, any report fits that criteria. So it would not increase the burden even the slightest.
You must have missed this part:
C.XI.2 Harassment, âgriefing,â abusive behavior or chat, conduct intended to unreasonably undermine or disrupt the Game experiences of others, deliberate inactivity or disconnecting, and/or any other activity which violates Blizzardâs Codes of Conduct or In-Game Policies. <
It applies not only to chat, if you take a minute and read it.
Using no reason to kick is no against the rules. Using a reason which is discriminatory or hostile in nature is deemed abusive
According to another thread you posted in 4 hours ago, you seemingly still need the pre bis boots from a dungeon. Which means you didnât put in the effort of buying the 359 BoE boots. Or even getting a pair of boots from raiding.
That disrupts my gaming experience, and I will not hesitate to kick you if I ever encounter you in game. But thatâs okay, you said so yourself.
Surely it depends on how often the âkickerâ has instigated an attempt to kick a player. If itâs rare then no problem but if itâs a serial kicker? Maybe he needs to have his vote-to-kick button greyed out for a cpl weeks. If a player then still keeps getting kicked (if we had something like this) then he needs to look at himself.
did you see me whining about being kicked from groups ?
there is a good reason i dont do that because im very rarely kicked.
although i got kicked from 1 dungeon recently - in mop remix - was solo carrying group and someone clearly didnt like i just ignored group - so they kicked me .
only emotion i had was laughing and i got instant lfr que for daily raid at the same time
people kick for whatever reason - so no reason to be emotional about it.
