So I was wondering while doing some light reading. From a lore standpoint, do the Trolls and Elves actually know they’re related to eachother?
I’d imagine it would be a deep insult to both of them, but is there any evidence anywhere that they’re actually aware of it in canon?
Kind of yes*
In Suramar the Bloodelves mock Nightelves with being directly descended from Trolls (weirdly without mentioning that they themselves are as well) and Fandral Staghelm used this “insult” as a reason to whipe out some trolls in northern Kalimdor.
So they are aware but see it as an insult nonetheless because it would disprove their belief in their own superiority as well as their religious beliefs (chosen and created by Elune vs. magically mutated Trolls).
Only Cenarius, Titans, keepers, and Brann know that this is true (from Chronicles and WoW magazine 5).
But, there was also one troll npc in Classic Alterac Battle Ground, who was telling that Night Elves came from Trolls.
https://classic.wowhead.com/quest=7361/favor-amongst-the-darkspear
Both Night Elves, and Trolls gave quests to kill each others on Alterac, because of that info… So yes, they think that as insult.
There can be actually a third option. Elune choose and create Night Elves from trolls, by using magical water.
There are some facts for that theory:
Yes the Blood Elves used this fact to mock the Night Elves in Legion during the Suramar / rebellion plot.
Then there are the already mentioned old Alterac Valey quests and the old Troll compendium also did mention that Trolls do believe this to be true.
So it seems like it’s a known thing on Azeroth. At least for the involving races. Night Elves also had some not changed Dark Trolls living in Hyjal until Cata.
This is a player rumor with no foundation at all. The only rumor in lore in such a direction was Velen speculation that Elune could be a Naaru (which seems now to be wrong).
This seems to be a myth. There is a item, a robe, from Legion with both symbols from loa and Elune on it. https://www.wowhead.com/item=121410/crumbling-ceremonial-vestments?bonus=6656
Also the Lun’alai ar a thing. They seem like Elune worshiper’s (it’s hard to say for sure). However we do know the Worldsoul spoke to the Darktrolls and learned them some titan words, like Kalimdor and over time they changed in to Night Elves.
So yes, Night Elves did start to worship Elune, but it’s not known when the Loa worship ended. Looking at this robe, there seems to have been a time of an overlap.
Elune was mentioned at least 16 times in Chronicles 1 alone.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/401408743511818241/829663206833127494/Elune.JPG
Blizzard doesn’t have much consistency on the dissemination of information. King Anduin can spent a year without having any diplomatic contacts with the leader of the Horde, and thus failing to ask if she might have arranged his father’s death, but everyone and their grandmother can know about the things the Explorer’s league just found out, and Old Emma can travel to the Shadowlands in the very first patch they are opened, because she knows perfectly what is going on with that.
The simple truth of the matter is that Blizzard doesn’t much care about a commoner’s perspective on any issue. So yeah, they’ll throw in their lore as if everyone should know whenever they feel like it. And thus, it seems that Kaldorei ancestry is more or less common knowledge. Until they decide that it’s news to Tyrande, or something like that, because they want to make a different point.
Actually that came from a Legions story. Khadgar was reading old books in Karazhan to find a solution how to open the heart of the light. And he found one book, where its mentioned that Elune have created Naaru. In that case heart of the light could possibly be opened by the tear of the Elune.
And so it did in the end.
Yes agree, but she mentioned there as some kind of a rumor. A Myth of the local Azeroth people. There was no info that she really exist, and that on some other planets others also worshiping her.
I give you that I already forgot about that. But it was only mentioned as a possibility from a in game narrator (in his book). So this doesn’t have to be true (which you didn’t claim). Blizzard is also retconing a lot looking back. We went from creation of the Universe from a clash between Light and Void to… supernatural beings perhaps creating everything. So take everything with a grain of salt until we are getting concrete info.
They must be aware in some capacity.
But it’s likely only the older generation of Elves really know for sure or those who have studied their history within their societies for a link.
The same idea would be applied for the Humans and Vrykrul.
Also, to a lesser extent Dwarves and Earthen & Gnomes and Mechagnomes.
It’s probably going to be the case that it’s one of those things from generation to generation that’s slowly devolved from common knowledge to legend over time as the transition would have happened so long ago.
As previous posters have said, the fact it’s also used as an insult and derogatory term in Elven society means they’d probably prefer not to mention it. They would rather distance themselves from the fact more so than the other three races mentioned above due to having a superiority complex.
The links are going to be known to some but, generally not everyone or otherwise obstinately denied in most cases.
afaia Elune supposedly was talking to them through the Well of Eternity. Which somewhat would be in line with how Elune communicated with the players. She spoke from the moonwell. And moonwells apparently hold the waters of the Well.
The chronicles as a series of books reflect the PoV of the Pantheon supposedly, but were not written by them.
We talked about it at blizzcon, about how the Chronicle books really are perspective you know from the titan… titan-derivative point of view. Like they didn’t write that book but like the people who have worked with them and served with (?) them and gotten to know some of them, like that’s their perspective on stuff.
© https://www.twitch.tv/videos/619631234?t=0h36m50s
One of Pillars of Creation is Tears of Elune, related to the Dream, so something is definitely known to the Pantheon but they did not spred the info further. At least that is the in-universe explanation I could think of for the more meta answer for the mystery of Elune (Metzen afaia wanted to leave Elune without ever specifying the details).
gl hf
I would asume Azeroth has spoken to them. But they did find Elune there (I think, the Lun’alai etc. are strange), it’s a bit of a mess. So it could be, yes.
The one excerpt I linked before seems to confirm your take. Even though it’s a bit strange.
If blood elves are using Trolls as a insult, why are they in the Horde again?
For the same reason the use of terms like ‘caveman’, ‘primitive’ or what have you early ancestry is used as derogatory slang against someone. Verbal ammunition, nothing more, nothing less.
As a player who enjoys playing both races, I just find it quite awkward. Real awkward.
I mean Blood elves being on the Horde just doesn’t “fit in” with the other races, aside from Nightborne who only joined recently. But it was done for gameplay purposes as the factions was unbalanced in Vanilla, plus some Horde members wanted a pretty race for their Girlfriends to play.
I mean the idea of allying with Trolls, Undeads, Orcs all of which have hurt Quel’thelas in some ways doesn’t make sense.
And then you have the Actual allies of the elves, like the Humans who have a long history with them since the Troll wars and the second war.
And even the Night elves such as Tyrande, helped them escape the scourge.
In Burning Crusade however, it was like they added so many quests in eversong woods that doesn’t make sense lorewise, just to justify the Blood elves moving Horde.
For example: the Darkspear guy who was captured by the Amani because his village nearby got attacked. (Where do the Darkspear live? All the way in Kalimdor. So it’s no where near Eversong woods therefore goes against lore.
Another example: the Dwarf alliance ambassador who came to spy for no reason.
Another example: the Night elves who came to spy for no reason. Again, let’s remember that Tyrande helped them only a few years ago. She became friends with them, so she wouldn’t send spies.
and another example: The Blood elves in Azuremyst doing who knows what. I mean Blood elves being all the way in Kalimdor in early BC doesn’t make sense to begin with.
and then you have the fact that ALL of the elven buildings, ALL of them even the ones ruined in the Ghostlands was changed from Blue to Red. Even the flag was changed from Blue to red.
Meanwhile, if you look at Sylvanas’s heroes of Storms video it clearly shows Quel’thelas has blue buildings. AND the early description of Silvermoon was described to be blue, until after BC when comics showed it to be red when Dath’remar Sunstrider moved there.
Another proof is that the Thalassian Buildings in Outland, which was built in Warcraft 2 are clearly blue and not red.
They could have at least made it a mix of blue and red buildings, but nope. All of them is red. So what does this suggest?
There was many changed lore to justify the Blood elves moving sides.
And yes though players may use Garithos as a example, many many times. They seem to forget that Garithos was from the Kingdom of Lordaeron which is now Horde and majority of its people became the Undead that they now ally with.
Other human kingdoms didn’t have any beef with Quel’thelas, otherwise the statue of Alleria outside of Stormwind would be destroyed. And there are even 2 High elf NPC’s living in Stormwind since Vanilla. Clearly showing that some High elves who fled Quel’thelas took refuge in Stormwind.
Ok rant over
In some ways I find BElves strangely fit to the Horde, they embody another aspect of the Horde’s theme and identity : hated peoples that have been hunted down and marginalized due to (very) poor decision making. That applies to BElves, Orcs, Nightborne, arguably Forsaken…
You are 16 years to late.
Well I’m just saying the truth.
If it was up to me, I would make the Belves and Helves part of the Alliance, while making Amani Trolls part of the Horde. That would’ve been ideal races back in BC. Zul’Aman as a Horde city, and Silvermoon as an alliance city.
But oh well, what’s done is done.
Your truth, you’re obviously opiniated about Belves being alliance, nothing wrong with that but it seeps through your entire post.
The only strange bit of lore I can agree with you for is the darkspear example, all the others have been explained and you simply think they’re strange because you disagree with them, atleast that’s my interpretation of the post.
Thalassian buildings being blue that were build in warcraft 2 makes sense, blue was the high elf colour and in warcraft 2, they were high elves. Them being blue is an artifact to which I say good eye for detail to blizzard but that’s all there is to say about that.
Heroes of the storm is not canonical and should not be referenced for lore basically ever.
When we make our blood elf, all these things (spies from alliance factions because of shown interest by the horde/sylvanas) were already happening, so why wouldn’t Azuremyst isles elves know about the spying?
I don’t see how Garithos being specifically Lordaeron would matter to blood elves, I know that, you know that, I reckon most elves just know the human that drove their prince into the hands of demons.
I feel like there’s a lot of nuance in general your post skips over in general
I endorse
This would have made too much sense for Blizzard though. We’d sooner get Furbolg Strippers as a new race/class
Plus they needed to keep the Amani by to be the side villains every other expansion along with the Sandfury and Gurubashi
Not true. And I’m not opinionated of this.
If Blood elves moving Horde had good lore to back it up, I would agree with it. But so far as I’ve shown with my post, there isn’t any “good” lore to back it up. Some things don’t make sense, and some things were changed.
Then why aren’t the Buildings in the Ghostlands blue? Huh? Did they magically destroy them and rebuild them as red?
I know that, I’m just showing how in many many ways when referring to the “old” Quel’thelas wether it be in arts, books, or other things it’s always shown as blue. Until BC came and they showed a comic with early Quel’thelas having red buildings.
However, according to the chronicles Quel’thelas was originally built in marble, and blue and cyan were their main colour scheme at the time of its foundation. This was originally the lore before it got changed in Burning Crusade showcasing Dath’remar with a red Silvermoon. So if your a big fan of elf lore like I am, you would know that the lore have clearly been changed.
Again, this was 15-ish years ago. So I’m
Not mad or anything. If they are Horde, then they are Horde. That’s it. It’s done for gameplay reasons so I’m not mad or anything.
I disagree with the points you raised except for the darkspear for reasons I’ve given, that’s where my opinion will stay.
I am not a developper and I am the wrong person to ask this question too, the only explanation I have that’s plausible for the story is that the Blood Elves started using red in Warcraft 3: TFT, which is a while before World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, which leaves enough time for a repaint, especially for people as magical as elves.
In reality, Blizzard probably just didn’t think that far.