Elves and Trolls

[Connie-medivh]

I’m all for racial archetypes, it makes up for different ingame experiences, particularly if you’re into RP. I think trolls already stand out enough among other playable races though, but I have nothing against this whole xenophobia thing, it’s just that it… doesn’t really show up ingame

@Shadowtwili-argent-dawn

Only recently the Zandalari came around to their way of thinking too, but all the other troll tribes still consider the first three traitors and the Zandalari are now… on less good terms with the vast majority of tribes too. (if they weren’t, the other tribes would’ve easily followed their lead and joined the Horde (a dream come true scenario tbf)).

/offtopic/
Idk, are we sure about that ? The tribes respresentatives at the Speakers Terrace grumbled about the Horde being led by an undead elf and the Zandalari Empire being on the verge of collapse. Now the situation is different, the undead elf is gone, and the Zandalari have avoided collapse, dealing with Blood Trolls and internal tensions and plotters. We don’t know how the other tribes feel now. Some might have reevaluated their thoughts

[Zarao-colinas-pardas (Zarao)]

@Streamlet-silvermoon

Blood Elves helped the Horde to commit a genocide, blowing up Theramore > Blizz: meh, not enough for Jaina to join the war against the Horde. She will stay neutral.

???

You reaaaally need to check on your knowledge regarding lore, mate.

[Streamlet-silvermoon (Streamlet)]

@Zarao-colinas-pardas

???

You reaaaally need to check on your knowledge regarding lore, mate.

???
It were Blood Elves the one who helped the Horde to blow up Theramore. Without Blood Elfs help it was impossible!
mate (c)

[Tekra-thrall]

@Streamlet-silvermoon

but I really think that starting point was a moment when Sylvanas have send Dark Ranger to kill Saurfang. He was just hiding in the forest, but after the attack he decided to send messages to Orgrimmar, to prepare rebellion.

Afaik Saurfang was getting Thrall on board when the first Assassins hit, so he was already preparing to move against Sylvanas.

[Zarao-colinas-pardas (Zarao)]

@Streamlet-silvermoon

???

This would be one of those situations where someone could post the Luke Skywalker “Amazing, everything you just said is wrong” meme.

Taking your quote:

@Streamlet-silvermoon

Blood Elves helped the Horde to commit a genocide, blowing up Theramore > Blizz: meh, not enough for Jaina to join the war against the Horde. She will stay neutral.

1. Theramore didn’t suffer a genocide. It was bombed in a plan that targeted the Alliance top commanders as a way to cripple their military.

2. Blood elves, as a collective, didn’t help the Horde “blow up” Theramore. Lorthemar, the general he sent in his place, and the troops under his command, had NO idea regarding Garrosh plan. The one that helped create the bomb was but a SINGLE individual that was later on prosecuted by his own people after being conscripted by Garrosh. The dude was not even from Silvermoon, but from the Sunreavers (who also had zero clues about his intentions).

3. Jaina most definitely didn’t remain neutral or apathetic towards the Horde after Theramore. In fact, her first reaction was to go to Stormwind and try and convince Varian of invading and destroying Orgrimmar to the ground. Upon getting a negative (Varian would still attack Orgrimmar but not on said terms), she then stole an artifact she used to unleash a tidal wave, twice, that would’ve drowned the entire city if not for Thrall physically halting it from doing such. Oh, she then also tried to kill him too.

So yeah, as I said, you should check the lore. It’s not as if said events haven’t been talked about a million times already.

[Streamlet-silvermoon (Streamlet)]

@Zarao-colinas-pardas

Theramore didn’t suffer a genocide. It was bombed in a plan that targeted the Alliance top commanders as a way to cripple their military.

Wrong. It was a genocide with 1 purpose - wipe out Alliance from this part of the sea. In fact during siege of Orgrimmar we can see that exactly (I am talking about captured Theramor survived civilians).
After that Theramor nation is no more.

@Zarao-colinas-pardas

Blood elves, as a collective, didn’t help the Horde “blow up” Theramore. Lorthemar, the general he sent in his place, and the troops under his command, had NO idea regarding Garrosh plan. The one that helped create the bomb was but a SINGLE individual that was later on prosecuted by his own people after being conscripted by Garrosh. The dude was not even from Silvermoon, but from the Sunreavers (who also had zero clues about his intentions).

So, in the end, it was Blood Elves the one who helped the Horde to commit a genocide… Just like I told.

@Zarao-colinas-pardas

Jaina most definitely didn’t remain neutral or apathetic towards the Horde after Theramore. In fact, her first reaction was to go to Stormwind and try and convince Varian of invading and destroying Orgrimmar to the ground. Upon getting a negative (Varian would still attack Orgrimmar but not on said terms), she then stole an artifact she used to unleash a tidal wave, twice, that would’ve drowned the entire city if not for Thrall physically halting it from doing such. Oh, she then also tried to kill him too.

Jaina was investigating who have stolen artifact together with Rhonin. Yes, she did at one point wanted to destroy Orgrimmar as a revenge. But what we got in the End:
After destruction of Theramorr, where Blood Elves have helped the Horde, Jaina in Dalaran decided to stay NEUTRAL!

In MOP, when Anduin together with Alliance player came to Dalaran and asked Jaina to help against the Horde, she told - No, I am neutral.
But later, when Blood Elves again have helped the Horde, during the Devin Bell story, she finally decided to join the Alliance.

So no, Luke Skywalker, everything I just said is true.

@Tekra-thrall

Afaik Saurfang was getting Thrall on board when the first Assassins hit, so he was already preparing to move against Sylvanas.

No, after Anduin have let Saurfang free, Saurfang went to the Swamp of Sorrows, where he was hiding, until Dark Ranger came. Only after that Saurfang started to act, and in next patch he came to Thrall.

[Zarao-colinas-pardas (Zarao)]

@Streamlet-silvermoon

Wrong. It was a genocide with 1 purpose - wipe out Alliance from this part of the sea.

No…

Read the book. Garrosh explicitly states his goals and why he chose to tackle the siege of the city that way.

He wanted to lure the Alliance military into the base, and then nuke them all to kill as many generals as he could.
He even set the fleet farther enough in order to allow the free transit in and out of the city (allowing civilians to evacuate, and the military to be deployed).

The definition of genocide implies the specific intention of targeting and copiously killing of a particular group of people.

Garrosh attacked Theramore in a way that didn’t specifically target any particular group, and tried to do such in a way that killed as many generals/military as he could, from across all sorts of enemy races and factions.

@Streamlet-silvermoon

So, in the end, it was Blood Elves the one who helped the Horde to commit a genocide… Just like I told.

No. It was one rogue agent that got to be a Blood elf, the one that helped blow up the city.
By the way, he wasn’t the one that threw the bomb, that was a goblin zeppelin. And it wasn’t him that stole the Focusing Iris from the Blue Dragonflight.

Also, do you really want to go down the route of arguing how the actions of one rogue individual are to be blamed on the entire race…night elf player?

@Streamlet-silvermoon

After destruction of Theramorr, where Blood Elves have helped the Horde, Jaina in Dalaran decided to stay NEUTRAL!

She decided to leave faction affairs behind after acknowledging a prophecy that claimed she’d help the world better by leading the Kirin Tor.
And decided to not fan the flames of animosity by instead joining the faction that didn’t favour either side…

But did so only after aiding Varians fleet take down the krakens defending Orgrimmars bay, and after trying to destroy the city twice with a tidal wave that would’ve killed more people than the Mana Bomb.

Saying that she “remained neutral” after having her city destroyed, remains a blatant lie.
Specially given she no longer allowed the Horde to roam about Dalaran (barring the Sunreavers who she expelled and killed a few months later).