According to the titans elves evolved from trolls. But since titans were proved many times wrong, it’s debatable.
Night elves did not evolved from trolls. According to me and night elves.
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I’ll just assume Zul’Aman is RPG-lore sized and that its still filled with alot of forest trolls. :sagenod:
Yet the Grand Alliance and Horde Rebels together apparently were barely strong enough to face the New Horde in combat. Why would the Alliance have to recruit the Horde Rebels to fight the New Horde if the Grand Alliance was the stronger faction?
They really should. Taun’ka would’ve been a better Allied Race then Highmountain, for sure.
Why wasn’t the Rebellion, in both cases, not immediatly started after the main crime? Instead they moaned and whined and did nothing until Vol’jin and Baine were imprisoned.
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It takes time to organize, find like minded people and even decided that your morals outweight your sworn loyalty.
In a perfect world Morals would be above loyalty every time and without question. The World of Warcraft is many things, but not perfect. An oath of loyalty in a culture were an oath is as binding as it gets is a hard thing to break.
Also: That Sylvanas just showed that she has no objection to burn 1000s of Civilians alive and your Capital City contains most of your own peoples population, that is just recovering from near extinction, may be another deciding factor to keep you in line.
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You’re one of us, get over it mon
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I mean, it’s not really. The trolls claim it, Brann Bronzebeard claim it, the titans claim it, other wow resources too, like the official wow magazine for example. at this point in time it’s one of the most definite lore points in wow. It would be like claiming other trolls didn’t come from the zandalari.
But then again I think you’re just doing this to go back to your ancient roots and troll the forums.
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Admittedly, Tekra makes a great point on this. Whilst it’s surely not something Blizzard thought about and were just slapping on the good ol’ “Just wait, hero, be patient” on leaking discrepancies a la black sealant tape style, it does make sense that it would take some time to muster a movement.
…again.
Personally, rather than immediate start of the Rebellion, more radical rebellious elements should have been introduced.
As examples:
Where were the Nightborne/Recent Allied Races professing discomfort at such an act?
Where were the Tauren/Figures that would have said/done something?
Etcetera. I find it hard to believe that everyone that posed doubt in the Horde as a faction with Sylvanas on top of it were very much quiet to warrant not even adding these simple world elements in to reflect the so-called ‘Horde struggling for its identity for the second damn time’ scenario.
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+1.
Also there’s Archeology stuff that basically confirms it as well, with early Nightelf-Style Robes adorned with Elune AND troll-Loa Iconography.
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I mean, to be fair, Draenei worship the Light and revere the Naaru. Humans got taught about the Light by Naaru visiting them in dreams. This doesn’t mean humans and draenei are descendants of the same race.
That said, I think there’s enough evidence that supports the troll-elven relation. However, from an in character perspective there really isn’t that much evidence. Trolls claiming it could be dismissed as them wanting to hold something over elves, and Brann really only theorises it. And as far as I’m aware “Chronicles” isn’t a collection of books that exists in the world, so we haven’t had Titans or titan creations claim this, either.
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In universe it’s definitely debatable, no question there.
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Yeah, I just didn’t want to include all hints/mentions of it as it would be too much.
Even in vanilla before they fully confirmed it they said that the night elves evolved from savage humanoids that settled by the well. But no one knew if they were trolls or not.
And at the same time in vanilla there’s an in-game book that mention a group of trolls heading for the heart of the continent and settling near the well of eternity.
So extremely strong hints, and in general the worst kept secret even from back then.
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Well, yeah.
That’d ruin the fun and point of making something of it. If this whole thing was splashed out there in the bare, it would kill more opportunities than present them. Sort of like finding the ultimately definite and perfect answer to something and then the usual human condition triggering with:
“Now what?”
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Agreed. Well said.
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TL;DR: all of the post is off-topic. Origins of the elves have some odd mysteries, but so far the easiest explanation that seemingly fit the lore is that there was some influence, possibly Elune, or whatever else, that led a part of trolls closer to the place where they could change. What was the purpose of this thing and how exactly that happened - who knows.
Well, the problem is that things were placed in a way that I struggle to call anything other than the narrative convenience. The reason for that is how not fitting some elements are, and how things turn around on a whim and without any sense of story progressing from point A to point B. Things just happen.
For example, you mentioned nightborne. I did not see much of BfA story, just the fist patch quests. What I saw was Thalyssra assisting in the events that led to Stormwind being set of fire, already after the tree™ events (although for the sake of convenience that will never be portrayed as a problem: there definitely were 0 people who suffered because of that, and it would not be allowed by the dev team to be an obstacle to the whole “let’s praise Anduin cheering for cooperation” narrative). So, the tree story was not really a problem for her (funny enough, by the end of 8.0 patch I did not spot a single character who actually had any problems with what happened. Baine and others do not seem to care in any way)
And another time where the attitude of nightborne stood out was the quest called “A Dark (Iron) Tide”
Apprentice Telemancer Astrandis:
Their red eyes… flaming beards… dark, dusky skin. These can only be Dark Iron dwarves. I have never seen one before this day.
It is my understanding that they have been sent here on an errand for the Alliance. Given my people’s allegiance, I believe we are now placed in a position to better demonstrate our loyalty to the Horde.
The Dark Iron must die. See that they do not claim so much as an inch more of this beach.
Let there be no confusion on where we stand, name.
So, here you have it. Up until it was convenient to run away from the “faction” portion of the story, not a single F was given. And then, when it touched Jaina’s brother - now that changes everything. Other than that - burning children for marketing purposes seemed like a purfectly fine decision to the dev team. Or so it was presented in the story.
gl hf
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True, sadly. People keep mentioning the burning of Teldrassil as the turning point of the war. It may have been the “symbolic turning point”, especially in the Sylvanas char dev, but narratively it really was her scheme with Derek that put the Rebellion into action, no matter how ridiculous that sounds.
I’ll never understand what they tried to do here. The game obviously wanted me to feel outraged at Derek’s fate, and sympathetic towards Baine’s decision, and I was like “… eh ? Did I miss something ?”
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I think Blizzard thinks small “personal” stuff is better to pull you in than big story points.
Sylvanas burned ten thousand civilians > Blizz: meh
Sylvanas raised and tried to Brainwash the Brother of an enemy leader? > Blizz: NOW THATS WORTH REBELLING OVER!
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Pretty much this. Surprisingly, Belf quest givers like Arathel Sunforge and Magistrix Aminel are pretty open about being inspired by Forest Trolls.
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Actually even within the Horde, Revantusks seem to get along somehow decently with Elves, as Huntsman Markhor is willing to work alongside Velonara for the greater good. They’re also described by Eliza Darkgrin as quite welcoming to the Forsakens, who are mostly former Lordaeroni…
At this point I think it’s reasonable to start questioning Trolls’ infamous xenophobia. That’s pretty funny
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Depends on your viewpoint, I guess. I personally always find it regrettable when the racial archetypes are undermined. That doesn’t mean that there can’t be a troll, or even a tribe of trolls, that doesn’t fit the usual narrative, but that only works for me, if they are specifically held up as the freakish exception. Sadly what I’m seeing is more like treating everyone the same as humans, though. I’d prefer having all humans to having all humans in different bodies, if I can’t have actually different races.
Lets not forget that the Darkspear, Shatterspear and Revantusk, until revently, were the freakish exception puked out and considered traitors by all other trolls.
Only recently the Zandalari came around to their way of thinking too, but all the other troll tribes still consider the first three traitors and the Zandalari are now… on less good terms with the vast majority of tribes too. (if they weren’t, the other tribes would’ve easily followed their lead and joined the Horde (a dream come true scenario tbf)).
Just like with Jaina story:
Blood Elves helped the Horde to commit a genocide, blowing up Theramore > Blizz: meh, not enough for Jaina to join the war against the Horde. She will stay neutral.
Blood Elves helped the Horde to steal Divine Bell > Blizz: NOW THATS WORTH TO JOIN THE WAR, AND TO KILL MANY BLOOD ELVES!
P.S. but I really think that starting point was a moment when Sylvanas have send Dark Ranger to kill Saurfang. He was just hiding in the forest, but after the attack he decided to send messages to Orgrimmar, to prepare rebellion.