EU warlock feedback thread

as someone who raids mythic En and ToV as affliction
i would like to give some feedback to the talent changes which got rolled out
on the ptr thus far. i've waited till the most recent build because of the initial statement that the first build was not final and we will see more improvements with the next build.
seen the new build i'm afraid that's all we get as promised quality of live improvements or the solution of talents as cure for inherent weakness

Malefic Grasp:
affliction at the moment has six dots (with effigy) and a shard spender on pure single target that means the uptime of drain soul is very very very low (roughly 25%).
the amount of bonus damage that talent has to provide to even come close to the 20 agony stacks talent has to be so absurdly high that its almost only "fixable" with a row change or a baseline Writhe Agony.

this is the problem with affliction the talents on all rows which promote single target have anti synergy with each other. its not that intuitive to just pick all the single target options and run with it

one example if it becomes the mathematical best option to pick Malefic Grasp it will degrade other pure single target talents in other rows so i can see a world where we would take absolute corruption over contagion or even conduit over effigy which makes contagion and effigy then totally useless.

i'm not even sure affliction needs a singe target fix. if this was an attempt it will do ether nothing or it will degrade talents in other rows

Haunt: this is a good change for low level m+ and heroics.

Empowered life tab:
boring gameplay aside whats the niche for Empowered life tab, if its just improving bomb dps its a talent not worth taking.
if its better than absolute corruption on multi target it will make multitarget an absolute hell gameplay wise
if its better than contagion on ST it will change the burden of useless talent to the other side.
keep in mind that even on ST contagion is only a bit better than absolute corruption. that means the possibility is very high that, when
Empowered life tab is a talent worth taking, both other talents in that row become useless.
Warlocks need more survivability in arenas vs. melee mongo cleaves. 3min CD shieldwall is too long and dark pact really suffers from how easy it is to just cleave our pet low/down.
Some of the talents need to become baseline, for example either Howl,Circle or Demon Skin.

It's just sad that at the start of the expansion the devs said they want to "double down" on our tankyness yet nerf it the same patch.
Guys one of our US brothers has created an online form to submit to developers.

Please support his attempt even if you do not believe in constructive feedback anymore:

Here is the link to the form:

https://goo.gl/forms/2TD6sxsykZmqfk4A3

And here is his original post:

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20752228236
bring back old demo
love Demo rotation, but where is the damage?

Make imps explode on target when they expire as a baseline utility in artifact tree.

Doom Sulotion, make it Scale with Haste. and leave it as be.
Allso, make it so you can acctully se how many dooms you have on the target, not as indevidual debuff, but simply add the numbers up inside the doom debuff window.
So you have a small number representing if you have x3 dooms up.
make it scale with haste, did I mention that?
Hello guyz,
I've written extensive feedback on the state of affliction in Live VS in 7.1.5 with simple solutions if you want to check it out : http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17614494739
i love demonology, its fun.
however: (please excuse my spelling)
lack of mobility is not the problem. lack of tankiness is: base line demon skin would solve that.
giving us back demon circle would be good as like mentioned the cd make it a one time thing. maybe 2 if we are lucky.

by now I'm guesing you have relised I am a pvp'er:

inpending doom is awesome. but compaired to improved dread stawlkers its terrible. in 99% of cases the imps will just chase the same target we doomed.

to make this class more viable, reduce the damage of are artefact, give us back demon circle and demon skin, (perhaps as a buf for 20s in pvp and 1h in pve ?)
with the reduction to artefact damage give us a Global pet attack. this way when we summon GOS felguard for a stun feer combo it doesn't blade storm them out of the fear

impending doom buff in 7.1.5 looks really good, however I'm scared that the imps will just attack the one target and become useless. I rarely have enough time to cast as it is.

I think we should have demon bolt over shadow bolt but maybe an artefact trait as are current ones suck. doom doubled being a 25% chance... 17s wait
15% chance that (demon artefact) will do bonus damage, we never get to cast.. 100% buf to shadow bult after 100 imp spells. I rarely summon imps, no chance and soul shards 9/10 can be used on something more better.

I feel GOS talent tree 90 is pointless and useless. just not worth choosing
I feel burning rush talent tree 75 is just a waste of health,.
demon skin is no where neer as strong as dark pact. yet dark pact is vital for survival
powertap is just pointless. swaping this for all pets now follow petattack when the abuility is used would be much more favourable

shadowy inspiration, if it was 2 charges of insta casts would be maybe better but shadow bolt is useless accept soul shard regen any way,. demonic calling just doesn't seem to compete with shadowflame unless your just lazy

soul conduit while having some good use for implosion build is not required. I feel so much more could be put in to make demon locks more fun.

the biggest problem with demon locks is by the time we are ready to do (good damage) they either run away or they cc chain us. or we are on 50% hp

demonic skin and demon circle would help. however I think we should gain demon bolt on 2s cast and have its talent increase the % and reduce the cast time or have it lose the % and alow us to cast while moving.

sadly there is way to much balancing involved and I already feel strong.
I don't want us to be over powered like previous exspasions but I do not want to feel that I never have a chance to burst because my opponent can just run away and wait. or cc hard

I think
global pet attack
demonic circle back
and demon skin buf

would make demon warlocks much more better in pvp
maybe remove drain life and increase the healing between pets and player also.

a lot of ideas here that contradict and out way, I'm not trying to say give us everything I'm just trying to offer my input of ideology and thoughts, hope I helped
new idea. make demonic empowerment a debuf and dispellable.

all pet are forced to attack the target. and the damage and haste modifiers still affect the individual demons as a buf. 2s cast and have it last 10/15s on a 30/45s? cd ? just another idea.

(really want that global pet attack blizzard) PLEASE !!!
Many of the problems with Affliction mechanics have been mentioned elsewhere. For the sake of completeness, they will also be listed here with proposals for fixing them.

TL DR version:
Issues:
- Mechanics force weak Single target damage.
- High ramp-up times.
- Talent tiers force a choice between single-target and AoE
- Clumsy Soul Effigy.
- Wrath of Consumption extremely situational Artifact trait.
- Affliction kit favours PvP at the expense of PvE.
- Grimoire of Sacrifice strictly AoE and not a choice for Single target.
- Cast-once-and-forget Absolute Corruption and Soul Effigy idle spells in PvE.

Proposed fixes:
Drain Soul (DS) damage generates Shards, just like Agony
More Unstable Affliction (UA) casts from DS -> more Single-target damage

Tweak Writhe in Agony (WiA):
DS damage ramps Agony damage. Agony damage ramps to 2x of normal, but refreshing resets stacks to max 10

WiA more viable for fast fights & more single-target oriented (like others in the same tier)

Siphon Life in place of Absolute Corruption
Less ramp-up time issues and idle spells.

Phantom Singularity in place of Siphon Life
Keep AoE in the same tier (Phantom Singularity, Sow the Seeds)

Sow the Seeds increases Corruption damage by 25%.
Give small (2-3% overall damage) benefit to single target damage, like other same tier talents.

Grimoire of Sacrifice effect deals increased damage but only to main target
Unify all Grimoire choices to ST for freedom of a choice of pet / no pet.

Soul Effigy to passive Accelerated Affliction: Corruption, Agony, and Siphon Life tick and expire 25% faster.
Change gameplay as Soul Effigy does in a simpler way: i.e. cast and deal more damage with DoTs.

New talent in place of Phantom Singularity. Example:
Soul Tethers: 40 sec CD, instant
You channel an uninterruptible Drain Soul on the target. You can move and cast other spells during this effect.

Beneficial flavor spell. For maximum benefit, try to cast all the DoTs during Soul Tethers.

Artifact Trait Wrath of Consumption:
1% increased damage per Soul consumed for 15 sec when casting Reap Souls.

Also fits the trait theme.
12/09/2016 13:12Posted by Etainn
GENERAL

Demonic Circle

The #1 mentioned thing about warlock in general is that Demonic Circle is a must as a baseline ability.

There is no problem in being a more tanky caster and we donā€™t have to be mobile like mages, and we never have been. But we need to have at least 1 mobility spell and Demonic Circle was the best ability to fill this place. We need something to ā€˜ā€™resetā€™ā€™ the fight from time to time. Besides, circle has a 30 second cooldown, so it wouldnā€™t even make us that mobile.

Demonic gateway is our only baseline mobility spell right now and is not a viable option for mobility purposes. It has a 3 sec cast time, it feels clunky and is only available every 1.5 min. It only really works in arenas, is called a bother by other players in PvE situations, and it is also really clunky to use in bgs and 1v1 situations.

Demon Skin

A suggestion asked for by many: Weā€™d rather see Demon Skin as a baseline passive for all specs and the talent spot should be replaced with something new. If we are to be tanky, we need this passive.

Grimoire of Sacrifice

The old Grimorie of Sacrifice allowed us to sacrifice our demon and gain one of itā€™s abilities. We really need to have that pet ability for utility (especially the interrupt) and it makes Grimoire of Sacrifice a talent not worth picking up, as we feel punished for not having that interrupt we need in M+ dungeons, raid and PvP content.

Switching between talents for single target or aoe

This is something some other classes seem to have as well. Perhaps we are now meant to switch talents per boss fight or area in a dungeon/raid. Some people commented about the fact that locks are more heavily effected by the choice between ST and AOE talents.

What their concern is: We are either really good in ST dps and lose a lot of aoe damage (i.e destruction picks Eradication over Fire and Brimstone and loses a significant amount of aoe dps) or we choose for aoe talents, and our ST dps suffers from this (No Eradication for bosses / single target dps, but very high aoe dps). This issue mostly concerns Affliction and Destruction warlocks.

Why is burning rush still a talent option

This is self explanatory. It is never picked up, not worth it. It would be much better if it got a rework or it needs to be replaced with a new talent.

Quality of life:

- The green fire visuals are not (yet) upgraded like the new fire visuals.
- Drain life could also use a visual upgrade (maybe like Gul'Dan in the movie)
- Glyph of wrathguard is nowhere to be found, can it be added back?
- We used to have a glyph that allowed us to walk on water with our dreadstead, maybe this could be reintroduced as a general thing or a class book ability.


Destruction

I've been playing destruction since 5.3 MoP and I agree with all the points made from the quote part.

For me, the biggest problems to destruction atm is:
  • RNG based mastery
  • clumsy RNG based shard generation

Personally, I loved the flow of building up embers and using them when needed.
And the control of the old fire and brimstone for aoe.
(I was not a fan of charred remains, due to the low dmg on incinerate, it just felt like throwing a glass of water on enemies. It also made chaos bolt too common imo, didnā€™t feel special anymore)

Now in legion
Iā€™ve often had situations where I need to use rain of fire, or chaos bolts, and have no shards, conflagrate is on CD, and my immolate ticks are unlucky. Other times I can't use my shards fast enough and lose shards due to already having 5 shards on me and I have a lucky streak and can cast 4+ chaos bolts in a row, due to them being refunded and lucky ticks.
The biggest problem with all the RNG is that it does not feel like itā€™s me doing a good or bad job in the way I play the spec, just lucky or unlucky.
I want to be a master of chaos and destruction, not a slave to chaos.

I'd also like to point out that from the livestream Q&A on 07.12.2016 they pointed out that they'd like to change our soul shards back to the way they used to work as burning embers, but they would still be soul shards, basically reskinned burning embers (as in we could have partly filled shards, but must have full shards to use our abilityā€™s the same way as on live). Note that they said this would be in a later patch, not 7.1.5

My plea to the game designers

PLEASE change them back to burning embers. I loved to see my character building up the green fel fire aura around my character. it made her look more powerful and ready to unleash chaos and destruction on our enemies. it was THE perfect resource and visual for our destruction fantasy. It felt rewarding to build up our embers just to see that aura, and we had CONTROL.
Again, I want to be a master of chaos and destruction, not a slave to chaos.
Mythic raiding level warlock, have played warlock(and wow in general) on and off since WotLK, came back in late MoP.

I play mostly destruction, but in the end I'll play whichever spec is "the best".

    General: Damage cooldown costing soul shards is just god awful.

    Not having an interrupt is so odd, and terrible aswell but mostly just odd. I like the idea of 'sacrificing' something for certain utility. If everyone had a talent row with utility, stuns/interrupts/silences/knockbacks and so on, and in every dungeon you needed to coordinate who has the stun and who has an interrupt, that would be really interesting. But as it stands right now only warlocks need to 'sacrifice' something for an interrupt, and we're sacrificing damage aswell, which is the only metric we can really judge by, odd.

    Affliction: Affliction suffers in dungeons from the pigeonholing of the talents. If I take aoe talents(Sow the seeds, GoSac, Singularity) My single target rotation boils down to one or two dots and then drain life. If I take single target talents(Writhe, SL, Effigy) Aoe damage is abysmal, single target rotation is fine, targets tend to die too quickly in lower mythic+, making us only really viable on bosses.

    Affliction feels a spec where the core concept was changed (souls spawning) but everything working in conjunction with it didn't. Having two of our golden traits tied to enemies dying feels really bad when there are no enemies dying.

    Soul Effigy is also incredibly awkward to use. If you need to move around (Ursoc/Elerethe/Il'gynoth) We need to not only set it up again, but allow our damage to ramp up again. My suggestions would be to let the soul effigy follow you around, or tie it to the boss rather than a position on the ground. This won't solve all issues, but needing to recast it several times during a fight just doesn't feel good, especially with talents that require ramp, like Write.

    Demonology:Demonology feels so underwhelming to play with the current iteration of demonic empowerment, earlier in alpha when you had three charges the spell felt like it carried some weight. But the current 'cast it after every summoning' is just sad. I would like to see it changed into a cooldown. Just increase the effect a lot, give us three charges, and put it on a cooldown. Pet AI/management is also really really bad in certain dungeons. Doom working the way it does also feels quite bad in low mythic+/heroics. Dooming a large pack and having them all die before doom goes off feels really bad.

    Destruction: Destro suffers like affliction from the pigeonholing, either you're good on aoe, or on single target. The lack of mobility is also an issue, I get that we're not supposed to be mages, but not having anything to cast on the move feels quite bad. Saving conflag charges works, unless you're playing Roaring Blaze. Saving your artifact weapon works, but only so well.

    The problem, as sad as it is to say, is Wreak Havoc. If our damage on single target is good, wreak havoc transforms us into gods. But our single target damage is based around this talent. Perhaps we need strong competitors in that row, or a buff in damage and a nerf to wreak havoc.


It might seem like I dislike warlocks, but I don't. I just don't like the pigeonholing by talents, and the sub-par damage(in most cases)
I tested With a optimised gear ser both for affliction and demonology, both set to max ST damage they still are 120k dps apart. I feel like affliction really is in need of a strong filler rather then drain life, in a fight with just 1 target you just feel like there is something missing wich can only be fixed by a second target.
I think that destruction mastery is a big problem, not the fact that it's RNG but the fact that it is so significant to our damage. In my opinion destros mastery should be chaotic but of another kind, preferably more like area damage in D3, as i think our class fantasy should be more volatile and explosive.

As many others have stated i also feel very limited by the CC we have outside of talents and even when picking for CC we're very limited.

Also the fact that G o Sup, Lord of Flames and Impish incineration don't add upp that great together is something I feel is a bit annoying
Ok so, you are asking for it Blizzard, you want us warlock to stop to play? What the crap is the nerf to our legendaries? We already suck in competition with other classes, now you just !@#$ all over us more and nerf the "best" legendaries we had? Because feretory of souls had already this AMAZING proc rate lets nerf it to 10%! You changed your loot spec to demo to get bracers? Screw you! Nerf that too! I play since 2005 and i'm outraged by this decision, and classes that top dps are mostly untouched. You better take this back and do something about warlocks instead of nerfing us to the ground while we are already perfoming bad. Classes with 10 ilvl lower gear top us, and you nerf US? I dont know if i want to pay for this any longer, i pay same money as mages, demon hunters and so on, and all i get is CRAP.
A Simple Feedback for the Dev team:
DO NOT NERF WARLOCK LEGENDARIES.you dont listen us about that !@#$ty mastery and terrible shard generation mechanic but atleast dont nerf our legendaries.
Warlocks are nothing without their damage increasing legendaries atm.
IF "Warlocks are nothing without their damage increasing legendaries atm." it is even more important to nerf legendary items. But with this should go also boost output without legendary so it will be less diffrence between warlocks with bis legendary and without/useless legendary.

My solution for legendary problem:
-legendaries should be nice UTILITY, MECHANIC boost "Example- Skill X cost 2 soul shard less to cast" etc.
-ofc Mechanic boost like I ment before will be also Damage boost.
-No more number tuning to balance legendaries - only utility and mechanic :)
Mythic raider here. Not going to talk about mechanical changes now and in 7.1.5 tho i like new changes for affliction and it kind of fits my perverted tastes to calculate spec and talents for every single trash pack and bosses in m+ and raids and accept my strengths and weaknesses, the main reason i'm not rolling from warlock whatever absurd decisions devs will make in the future as i'm performing good right now.
However, one thing that rustle my jimmies is visuals.
Demonology is fresh from the oven, so it's not worth mentioning it here.
Destruction:
Chaos Bolt. Speaks for itself. The most iconic warlock spell since WotLK. Adding nice fel boiling effect under our feet while casting was a great decision, it looks great, it looks like something dangerous is being cast. But the projectile itself? That dragon thingie was not updated for ages. Since patch 3.0.2 to be correct. That was 8 years ago. Eight. Nuff said.

Affliction:
Agony, Corruption and Unstable Affliction. How can you distinguish which one is on the target right now by just looking at the model itself? Visual effects for those was not updated for a long, long time as well. I mean, there are a lot of shadowy-ish visuals in the game that's been used for certain bosses once or twice during the whole game. If it's so hard to re-imagine how any single of those can look in a year of 2017, maybe just took those mentioned above, just re-color them and give them to affliction spells? That's purely a suggestion, but it would be really nice to see an update.
Drain Life/Drain Soul/Malefic Grasp (7.1.5). Malefic Grasp's animation was looking sweet. As of current state of PTR, we have Drain Soul as baseline ability with it's old animation which is sort of okay. But! You pick Malefic Grasp talent, you start channeling it into a target and what do you see? Drain Soul's animation. Developer's decision here is not quite clear for me as Malefic Grasp's of old animation looks a lot sweeter than Drain Soul's already. Can we maybe have it back if talented?
Seed of Corruption. Animation was not updated since TBC. Not gonna cry here, it looks good, it brings old memories back as Legion actually brings reason to use it in aoe situations, but the visual update would be nice.

Glyphs and General:
Life Tap. I've been playing on private vanilla server not so long ago just for that look through the prism of time and i noticed one thing. Life Tap's animation now and 10 years ago is exactly the same. What the helheim?
Glyph of Verdant Spheres. 3 specs. All 3 use soul shards as of right now. Visuals been scrapped off completely even as an option of Glyph. Why? It was such a nice invention the time it was introduced, but for some reason developers decided to take it away from us while our class is not that shiny and flashy already, like mages or spriest for example. Would be cool to see a comeback as it were in WoD or MoP for example.
Glyph of Wrathguard. I heard it's been scrapped off because it's hard to balance dual-wield damage wrathguard deals in compare with felguard's two-handed damage. Not laying big hopes in here, but seeing big guy's return would be cool.
Felguard's Weapon. The way Felguard is wielding it's weapon. Not a big deal, but you can see in the videos of Legion beta that Felguard is actually using 2 hands while wielding them huge two-handed weapons. In my opinion it looks way more cooler rather than just having a two-hander in one hand showing off dat strong muscles.

That's it. The reason i would like to see those changes is Legion being an expansion of big changes to every class and spec, with tons of new mechanics and visual updates, but now for Warlocks in visual matter, at least not for 2 specs mentioned above. Maybe we can have some nice post-christmas gifts while that "we'll focus on mages" meme is rolling? Thanks for attention.
Destro pvp Chaos 35% nerf ? why dont you guys put it on a PTR first ? 7,1,5 ptr was alive for like 2 months if not 3 ... now that it's live you nerf it by 35% .....

Fine... decrease the casting time ... or atleast give us some mobility

I really think you guys messed this up ....
I really like warlock right now. I feel like blizzard are my friends. Thank you Ion for making such a nice class that I enjoy playing and will make my main in Nighthold. For the Alliance :)
Since this is a feedback thread;

Imagine there is a feast in a big house, everything people eat is first class, vines chees etc.

Playing warlock(especially dest.) feels like, while at that feast watching everyone eating tasty foods, u are forced to eat rotten eggs while watching others. And worst part is they dont want u at the feast.

I dont think anyone who is in charge plays warlock right now. However this is a class for doing world quests, pet battles, checking AH etc.

TL:DR: Playing dest. lock is not fun rotation is bad, dps is low, mobility is bad etc. And to the DEVS, Learn to play guys. Learn to play, or go study math-statistics little bit.