Answer the question i asked.How will people who picked there faction and race for there story fir into your new scheme?
that is fake reporting and will get you banned and i am now flagging you for threating me good day.
i agree with u but before meaningful story factions can exist again we must also play a game where faction game mechanic isnt barrier for coƶperation.
If everyone can communicate and play together atleast story alliances can be revived to switch around now and then.
theres lots of creative ways to show parts of the world is āhostileā to ur faction without broader gameplay exclusion thats rlly too wasteful for modern content development and player gameplay expectation.
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you were impolite and driving personal attacks, i dont have to answer anything.
but i will report your message, as promised. now please go spam in another topic.
have a good day
absolutely.
btw, what do you think about the idea of zandalari empire taking troll tribes over?
To be honest, itās difficult to rearrange the races into new factions so that factions are symmetrical in size and simultaneously respect both their cultures, their lore and their geographical locations. For non-Allied races:
- Orcs and (Darkspear) Trolls fit together, and they start at the same area
- Tauren donāt directly fit well with the above, but there is no other race capital close to them geographically. They probably fit culturally with Night Elves and Pandaren though, both being nature lovers and preservers.
- Goblins should pretty much be standalone as well, they are the only faction that are into money.
- Pandaren should be standalone too if not with Tauren and/or Night Elves.
- Undead should be standalone too
- Blood Elves fit with Humans
- Humans, Dwarves and Gnomes fit together
- Night Elves donāt go along well with anyone, except Tauren and Pandaren
- Draenei donāt fit with anyone either culturally. But because of their proximity to Teldrassil, and since they are quite friendly to each other even if indifferent, it makes āsenseā to have them as a faction.
- Worgen fit with humans.
If all Allied races had fleshed out capital cities comparable to those of the āoldā races (only KulāTirans and Zandalar Trolls can be said to have), itād be easier to make ānewā factions. (-=EDIT=- Highmountain Tauren have a capital too!)
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Iām all for independence. (Iām Scottish XD)
Ah great now Iām kinda sorry
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Me too. D=
Awful idea and would wreck 20 years + of wow gameplay and lore. Rpāers would hate this if it was forced.
Yeah forsaken Humor never lands the right wayā¦
Iād quit the game over it, personally. Regardless of what race gets suffled where, if I log in today and my characters are not part of the factions they were yesterday or the guilds were part of another faction Iād just end my gametime then and there.
Horrible idea imo, high elf and blood elf not being unified makes both of the races cooler by themselves.
Yes I also do not think the general elven unification idea is a good one of the world soul saga and if it is full on blood elves and high elves will merge then both blood elves and high elves will lose the things that make them unique and cool.
The other races I have my opinions on, but donāt really play them, scourge undead is the only one where Iāll go hard makes no sense unless you remove every other form of undead because the majority of the non scourge undead were turned undead by the scourge and they hate them for it.
You say its a lorefriendly take, but I feel like it ignores the last 20 years of it and honestly, a lot of out of game lore before that too. Makes me wonder if weāre looking at the same sources.
i think attempting symmetry in size is the problem.
i am basing this on the games and not the books, since the two are contradicting each other, and i am a fan of the games, and not the books.
but basically you have elves and trolls, and to lesser extent humans(+undead) and dwarves, which are supposed to have a massive presence due to their history in azeroth. and then you have orcs and draenei, which based on realistic math and economics even considering magic, just physically can not be anywhere close in population size, considering THEIR history in azeroth etc.
But if you put the population size asideā¦elven and dwarven magic and techs are FAR more advanced than war 3 orc/tauren/dark spear/sylvanas undead magic/tech.
So in vanilla alliance is supposed to have a population advantage and a technical advantage.
In fact, if you look at war3 and vanilla quests, the geopolitical rundown is the following:
-dark spear/orcs/tauren are barely managing the kalkar. so they are a regional power at mezokalimdor. they are not a continental kalimdor power and not a world power.
-the alliance is effectively ran by magni and jaina. so alliance is in a dormant state.
But then blizzard decides to make them equal.
So they make both alliance and horde gunpowder empires.Thats problem number one.
And they make it where undead get spawned at insane rate and a lot of new trolls join the horde.
Ok, fair. But then the story should acknowledge, that horde is correcting its manpower deficit by changing its demographics to where trolls and undead are the main soldier pool. And there should be logical consequences of this, aside from sylvanas becoming the chief. This is the second problem
And the technology/magic disadvantage on the hordeās side was corrected by adding blood elves and goblins. and thats not very lore-friendly,i think.
So to sum up, trying to make factions equal is just a bad idea, as it makes the lore less logical, i think.
exactly
+++++++
i agree with you 99%, makes absolute sense
true, but what about the lich king undead
i think, considering what we usually have in capitals, its not very hard to ātouch upā the current available npc hubs
thats a nice location :))
but how do you justify blood elves being in one faction with trolls?
my second server in wow classic was RP and i have mainly played on RP servers, i also was in a couple of rp guilds, i did a lot of rp
i dont hate it.
dont speak for us all pls
some of us hated it back in tbc (i remember) when we could not rp as blood elves with humans and were in orgrimmar insteadā¦
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The story of how the blood elves join the horde is explained in the starter zones and some in books leading up to that point.
Sylvanas sends assistance as the only one who geologically is capable of doing so which prevents Quelāthalas from being turned into the Northern plaguelands, you can see this today in ghostlands quests
She used this to convince Lorāthemar to join the Horde, the Horde wanted them to prove they could solve their problems tho, so officially they are only accepted after the ghostlands has been brought under control.
I donāt imagine that it was an easy or quick transition, but I do imagine that the transition happened. You say belves being in one faction with trolls, but the only trolls they had issue with was Amani. Howād they know the difference? Well, they probably didnāt at the start, but when Zulāaman opened and Volājin lead the charge into it? they probably started noticing then, the enemy of my enemy and all that.
I even imagine theyād vibe pretty well with the Tauren, not going to pretend the belf spirituality towards the sun is anywhere close to what the Tauren has, but there is some overlap there definately.
Now, as I said before, all of this is explained in the existing lore so please go search for the rest yourself but do allow me to counter your question with my own.
How do you justify ignoring the last 2 decades of lore for a reshuffle?
how do books justify ignoring two decades of lore?
Since you asked, my logic is very simple.
War 1,2,3 are absolute gold canon and the main source. Everything else should fall in line with War 1-3
WoW vanilla is silver cannon. It is in good sync with War 1-3.
WoW expansions are copper cannon. They are sometimes* contradicting War 1-3 and vanilla WoW
For me personally wow books are not cannon at all. They have so many contradictions with War 1-3, that they seem to be a fanfic or a different universe.
Now, if you personally prefer the books, thats completely fine, and you are entitled to that position.
In my opinion, everything, that contradicts War 1-3 is anathema and i am judging everything on how well it sits with War 1-3.
If you can accept this approach differences, we can hava a discussion.
If you cant, then there is no point in arguing, because for one i dont take books as cannon.
Factions breaking up and forming under new banners and numbers isnāt breaking the lore, as long as itās done with logical steps and especially when done through treason and deceit. After all, even in real life, countries would be allies one decade and then break into war with other the next.
Ignoring the last 2 decades of lore would be a questline that has Stromgarde and Hammerfall work togetherā¦
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To me it depends, as a RPer how many times Iāve read about some place having a castle or fort but you go there and what do you see? an empty plain of grass with a tent and maybe a broken wheelcart, I prefert by what goes ingame. However if the story is classified as canon by blizzard, thats what Iāll treat it as. If it changes something in the past, I consider it a retcon.
Tho that being said.
Blizzard decides the canon, if something newer re-explains the old, its usually an intended retcon. I donāt like a lot of things that are canon either, but I am a roleplayer, I have to adhere to it to some degree to prevent RP from breaking down completely at first contact when RPers canāt even agree on what the colour of the sky should be.
You say we can have a discussion as long as I can accept this approach in differences, but your approach is to claim authority over what is canon from Blizzard, which makes me wary of the invitation;
Thatās fair, but that does make it all an opinion that goes against what the authority of the canon says and as a roleplayer I do not have the luxury of headcanon that hard splits from what is considered to be.
This is an arguement I donāt actually see often, 9 out of 10 times these arguements are just hey guys lets pretend the last few years didnāt happen and just wake up one day and pretend it was all a dream.
This method is a lot more paletteable and servicable then āyouāll wake up to a faction changed main one dayā and actually respects story continuity.
Refreshing, completely not in the same ballpark as what I interpret OPās suggestion to be, which is a rewrite.
No, I am not going to say to Blizzard, or to you or to anyone else, what they should consider cannon.
I am saying, what I* consider cannon.
I am a fan of Warcraft games and vanilla wow and i am a fan of logic.
So for me Warcraft is cannon and I judge everything on how well it sits with it
Some people will have a similar opinion to what i have.
Some people will have a similar opinion to what you have.
Some people will just agree to whatever blizzard says is cannon at this particular moment
All of these is completely fine.
However, there is no point in trying to convince me, that books are cannon and i should rely on books, because for me Warcraft is cannon and logically i therefore cant rely on books.
So you can drive the argument, that somehow blood elves should be speaking orcish and be friends with trolls, based on that approach.
But if you want to insist, that i accept the books over war 1-3, thats not happening and then you are wasting your time.
Yes, there are all kinds of different opinions within RP community.
Some people will take as golden standard what blizzard says at this current minute is the cannon, some wont.
I know from experience, that some guilds will split and some events will fail due to opinion differences.
It is what it is
So now when we have THAT out of the way
The suggestion of this topic is to remove Horde-Alliance dichotomy in logical way that does not contradict the game and the game lore and that would improve gameplay, including RP.
I dont care if it contradicts the books not one iota.
Some people will agree, some people will disagree.
You are for preservation of horde-alliance dichotomy, ok, it your right to have your opinion.
I honestly just wish theyād go the whole hog and remove the faction barrier. Let us do everything together. Itās strange that I can be in a guild, raid, do mythic plus with the Alliance but it stops there. I canāt do random dungeons unless I bring a full premade which is just impractical. Even the story has moved on but some things are still stuck in the past of old systems.
I still find it takes longer to queue up for things like LFR as Alliance than it does as Horde. Just let us all play together already.
Personally not interested in even more divisions.
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Spoilers for the new campaign, I am hiding them for whoever wants to avoid them.
Generally I like the concepts of alliances breaking up because one of the parties tried to favor subparty A over subparty B, and then have external agents also stir up mistrust.
The new questline was so very close at achieving that, at some point I honestly expected that we had a new Defias emergence. Not only that but the fact that someone gave both factions false data to make it seem as if the other faction is responsible for the deaths of denizens, it gave me the impression that this questline would be the spark for new skirmishes that could lead to a whole new war.
And then add a sprinkle of nathrezim, who are adept at deceipt, to sweeten the deal.
I want it removed for all gameplay purposes as well. But it should remain in the story, it keeps it spicy.
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If I had to make a choice, I would choose for faction barriers being lifted other then suddenly my mains allies and friends for over a decade if not more of RP are suddenly his enemies now and I need to use language pots to be able to RP with them.
Otherwise yes I am a staunch believer of atleast keeping what we have, I also want to see less neutral characters being introduced but thatās more because I notice that the racial introductions are becoming lazier and lazier. You canāt equip gear on a dracthyr properly and earthen donāt even have representatives in either faction.
Beyond that, I am a major belf/helf van, I believe that the belf/helf is the coolest fantasy elf and them not being unified and having beef and the way that beef came into play to me is a big factor of that, a proper unification of belf/helf will simply be the dissolving of one into the other. I will always say hard no to helf/belf unification, because thatās when helf/belf will cease to be interesting regardless of any horde/alliance faction talk.
Everything that made helf interesting and cool will evaporate overnight and without the helf to contend with, the belf also becomes a lot less interesting, they will basicaly join to become a standard fantasy elf, boring flat and predictable.
I donāt think Iām saying weird things when I say that a non negligible amount of people, if they would wake up to their main characters who they put all their investment and time into suddenly being a faction you specifically did not choose for them at character creation, theyād likely shut the game down and not boot it up again.
I havnāt finished it in its whole, I am not a fan of the cast. When I found out there were things for horde to do that werenāt made into quests for horde characters I kind of zoned out and stopped bothering but I do know how the quest ends.
I also donāt like how they turned the scarlets/defias/syndicate into team rocket, Iāve joked that once Midnight launches weāll see that the scarlets have taken over silvermoon before this patch, but now I actually fear it after.
i dont think that rigid factions are the best approach either
i think, we should use the mechanic from vanilla, when you have a neutral standing with a faction and then you can declare war or work on improving it, but i think this approach should be generalized.
and i also think that languages should be a learnable skill, like weapons were a learnable skill in vanilla.
so as an option, this approach is better i think.
i agree with you, that helf/belf unification is a point of discussion and i think, that there could be a questline, where your helf/belf either decides to join the alliance, or the elf-only faction.
i dont agree with you, that there should be lore, where the majority of belfs or helfs are speaking orcish and support trolls. Its very illogical within the game. I think to make the story logical and more believable in future blood elves should exit the horde
true
it was already visible with suramar, where we could have had a city, and received a gnomeregan room