I don’t like it when gameplay does not reflect the story so I have zero interest in more faction conflict. It’s been done to death.
I don’t know what your problem with the elves being in the same faction as orcs and trolls is.
These aren’t the trolls and orcs that once fought them.
These are different once
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i think, its fine, if some* are in the same faction as trolls, lets say a group of renegades.
I dont buy the in-game lore for the majority* of blood elves being in that faction.
Sylvare described some of that lore above, i am familiar with it, i just dont buy it.
For one, the amani war, that i think was referenced in this topic, was not the only war between trolls and elves. There is a history of wars and mutual hatred between elves and trolls, and its not just the amani tribe either. Finally, you have to remember the elven life span, which means they cant say “oh, sorry, i forgot about all those conflicts with trolls”.
So on one hand you have individuals, which have tens of thousands of years of conflict and hatred with trolls.
On the other hand, you have a couple of years of cold shoulder diplomacy because Garithos is a racist and fell differences.
So yeah, elves had a spat with alliance and now they are killing humans alongisde trolls. And btw to support orcs, who have just yesterday (in their terms) came throught the dark portal and killed a good number of high elves
Ok.
Thats just 1/1000000th of a problem i have with this narrative. But even at this superficial level, does it not already seem ridiculous to you?
A civilization of mentally superior immortal beings killing humans en masse over a diplomatic spat?
I could possibly imagine behind-the-scenes unintroduced reasons for belf majority sticking with the horde. But we were not given those and even those would be temporary.
So imho belfs should be a separate faction and/or in alliance, but a score of them of course could remain loyal to the horde, without breaking the story.
Again, i personally root for self-determination mechanic, where you are neutral with factions and then your actions influence the standing
But i think in game lore (dont care about books) its past time we took blood elves out of the horde and by the way gave realistic reasons for them to have stayed so long in the horde in the first place.
Could make for a great quest chain btw
But they aren’t fighting alongside the Amani Trolls. They are fighting along side the Tribes in the Horde. Not the same thing.
And I think it’s a pretty big deal when the Alliance is sending you all to your deaths and feels you are expendible.
There are 15+ thousands of years of elves fighting with all kinds of troll tribes, not just amani, and there are some elves who are still alive to confirm. There is also a history of fighting orcs during the events of warcraft strategy, on one hand.
On the other hand, you have maybe as much as a decade or thereabout of bad diplomatic relationship with alliance.
Is it a reason enough for a race of genius immortal beings to start killing their formal allies?
It seems you have your own lore going on there.
I’m just gonna stick with the official stuff.
Wait, you are unaware of any other war, than amani war?
oh wait, another question, do you know the plot of war 2?
Ok, if a person is unaware of orcs killing elves and the elf-troll history, but only knows about the amani war, it makes a little bit more sense.
But it still does not explain, how you can believe belfs suddenly started killing humans en masse.
Is pretty good at detailing their history.
When humans want to eradicate your existence, it’s not really hard to understand. BEs tried to be neutral initially but were given support by the Forsaken. But it’s all in that link.
Orcs were killing large amounts of your relatives.
Trolls were killing large amounts of your relatives for thousands of years.
Alliance humans did not kill a large amount of your relatives.
Why do you join a and b to kill c?
You don’t seem to see the issue with them being on the same side. That is the entire crux of the issue. The people you are allied with are sending you to your death. There is little point in an Alliance with an exterminator.
If an immortal intelligent being for some reason gets offended for having been sent on a suicide mission by a racist general
How do they not get offended by orcs and trolls literally outright slaughtering elves?
If we follow that logic trolls should never be a playable race cause everyone should hate them.
But I stand by my previous point.
All lore reasons are irrelevant since blizzard didn’t think about that.
They where in desperate need of a pretty race lore be damnd
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In the whole garritos thing it’s important to remember that he didn’t start beef with any random elve but he imprisoned there prince and threatened to kill him
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I mean it’s a lot more believable that Garithos’ hatred for Elves is what drove them out when he was happy to send them all to their deaths and openly despised them and Dwarves.
I also really loved the mention of Garithos and how Garrosh similarly treated them with disdain. Though that ended up resolving itself.
If you compare that to the NB. Who joined the Horde cos Tyrande was a moody cow.
Since orcs and trolls allied to siege Silvermoon and burn half of the kingdom, i can totally understand same orcs allying with a different troll tribe, thats fine.
Idk about tauren-troll relationship, are there similar arguments for tauren hatred of trolls? maybe there are, tell me.
yes, i think, all the lore-reasons are complete bs
the only real reason is trying to make horde and alliance same in all categories, like they try to give all classes healing.
Yes, Garithos imprisoned some elves and was about to execute them.
Thats a HUGE difference from being in war with trolls for 15k years + being at war with orcs for War2.
Your prince gets imprisoned and sentenced to death. even if garithos has authority - pretty bad
Orcs burn chunk of your kingdom down - big bad
Troll versus elfs wars- bordering on mutual genocide, for all intents on purposes.
So you ally with your mortal enemies (trolls) and people, who comitted real war crimes in War 2 against your kingdom(orcs), to kill humans, which did not even manage to actually execute your prince?
Garrosh had so many flaws.
Like he really enjoyed having the forsaken as a semi importal army that doesn’t sleep but when sylvi came around and said we don’t reproduce we need to make more forsaken he completely flipped.
Love how he was: WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND THE LICHKING NOW!!!
and she was just: well I serve the horde lol
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I disliked Garrosh. People used to kite rares in to kill him. People didn’t defend him often when the Alliance raided either.
He could have been a good war monger leader but they dragged his character all over the place and they didn’t keept to one thing apart from HORDE
If you go by the games and not by the books, before zandalari joined, forsaken for sure were the backbone of the horde army. So idk what would horde do without sylvanas methods.
But again, since there were no conflicts we know of between taurens and trolls (right?), and because orcs and trolls have allied in war 2 to burn down Silvermoon, its totally legit, for orcs and trolls and taurens to come together in war 3.
But elves, which were killed in mass by orcish invasion during War 2 (civilians and all) and which had been killing and being killed by trolls for 15k of years, would never join the people, who killed their relatives.
Especially, if they are so touchy as implied in this topic by Garithos abuse of power, then imagine how touchy they would be about what orcs and trolls did to their civilians
You still don’t grasp the implications of the side you are on, killing you. They didn’t get killed by the Horde after joining the Horde.
I’m not sure what Sylvanas has to do with what I said about Garrosh.