Feedback: Death Knights

In Development The War Within Beta Test
22

i gotta say with the removal of the 2 point talents in the middle talent row things have made talenting alot better, but Blizzard can you pls just set our first talent row 2 talent point nods down to 1 talent point, just make Improved Festering strike only increase Festering Strikes damage by 20% and Runic Mastery can increase the Runic Power up by 20.

Also move the Festering Wound damage from Improved Festering Strike up to Bursting Soars and move the talent to Pestilence talent location, then you can bake Pestilence in to Defile.

As for Festering Scythe, move Festering Scythe were Bursting Soars is located it makes more sense to have it be a talent you take before going in to Bursting Soars, but also don’t stop improving this effect, i feel this is way to inconsistent to be used at a average play.

And last thing add back Raise Sludge Belcher as a talent option to replace the Pet Ghoul. For PVP players having access to Sludge Belcher would be good as it gives a Death Grip to the Pet and allows for more planing on how to deal with pesky ranged dps.

10 Likes
23

I personally find that Unholy is just as bad as the Warrior specs in terms of button bloat. As such, I agree to an extent that some of the abilities that are always intended to be used together in rotation should be combined into single button. Unholy opener is truly an unholy aberration, not mentioning the fact a lot of the summoning abilities suffer from a significant delay before they start doing their damage.

  • Apocalypse is now the primary outlier, and I believe it should replace Dark Transformation and combine both effects into one button.

  • I also think Summon Gargoyle should be a choice node with Raise Abomination, and tuned accordingly to have Garry be the pure ST and Abom be the Cleave/AoE option.

2 Likes
24

Following up on the changes from most recent build:

The Infliction of Sorrow change is great, it no longer creates rotational friction and instead creates a nice damage burst window.

It is really good that it doesn’t happen automatically at the end of the Gift buff, so we can choose when and which target gets blasted. However, I would say that it being tied to spammable RP builder does make holding it back hard.

Wouldn’t it better that if instead of Source/Heart Strike the damage event triggered from next Outbreak and Death’s Caress? Both are Single Target, not vital to Rune/Runic Power building/spending, and reapply the consumed disease.

The Good:

  • Changes to Ghoulish Frenzy and Improved Death Coil are great, even with the “lower values” it still is a major improvement.
  • Likewise, Apocalypse change is tremendous, allowing us to use the ability on cooldown without delay to get extra wounds if we somehow failed to prepare sufficient (which is now slightly harder with Sudden Doom popping them).
  • Personally, I like the Defile change a lot. No longer it is a “mastery buff cooldown” and instead is an AoE damaging ability it should have been from the start, and it simplifies the rotation.
    • I hope that Defile will get new visual before TWW release, not only it looks dated but it’s simply detrimental to play with when ground swirly damage effects are involved.

The Bad:

  • Decomposition still feels unworthy and unrewarding as a 2-point talent sitting in the penultimate row just before a capstone (and on the wrong side of the tree). It would be more acceptable as a single point talent (with same values as current 2) at Gate 2, probably around the location of Pestilence. It’s just that the three extra seconds equates to 10% (Abom) to 15% (Apoc Ghouls) uptime increase, but it doesn’t equate to a 10-15% DPS increase - and those 2 talent points could be put to talents that do.
    • Side note: The flare up part should have been built into Virulent Plague baseline - Unholy is supposed to be master of diseases, yet their disease does less than Frost or Blood (just pure damage ticks).
7 Likes
25

I hope that Commander of the Dead wont be going live in War Within.

This passive is so bad it can’t work when you have talented Doomed Bidding.

There are several things that should replace it in my opinion.

  1. You have a chance to Raise a Lich instead of a Magus, the Lich buffs the UH DK with Shadowfrost armor increasing the damage the DK deal by X amount and reduces incoming damage by X amount.
  2. For every Festering Wound you Burst you Raise up a Skeleton warrior, the Skeleton Warrior Applies a stacking debuff on the enemy target increasing the damage the enemy takes from the DK.
  3. Gargoyle gets located here, but that is the most boring one out of this 3 suggestions, heck 1-2 could even be baked in together to create something more interesting out of our rotation.

we are bursting way more Festering Wounds now on beta which is a good thing, but i feel like we lack talent that really makes this change have a great payoff, that’s why i think Commander of the Dead needs to be buried alive? and replaced for something that are really worthy of being a cap stone talent.

Also Blizzard [DO NOT LISTEN TO THOSE PLAYERS ON THE US FORUM ABOUT SUDDEN DOOM BURSTING FESTERING WOUNDS] it’s a good thing it helps the rotation flow better, they are only bragging about numbers forgetting that it helps the rotation flow more naturally.

12 Likes
26

Rune of Apocalypse - Feedback

  • please improve the uptime (up to 70%-90% / min-max) of the all debuffs because it is currently very low (especially in a dungeon environment)
  • please make all debuffs last at least 10 seconds
  • I also request that all debuffs be applied at the same time

I’m still asking for a reduction in the requirements for Festering Scythe.

Generally, it could be a great skill that I would really want to use, but it must be baseline and not cost 20 wounds.

3 Likes
27

There is still many problems with BDK rework.

  1. Ossified Vitriol is pointless talent and it (other two nodes) blocks from rapid decomposition.

2.Tightening gasp should reduce cd to 1min or give 2 charges. Bdk main utility is grips and other tank having better grip skill is insane for me.

  1. Bonestorm should work with insatiable blade. It would Bdk gameplay much much more interesting and finally bonestorm usefull.

4.Leching strikes, blood tap, blood feast should be removed from game and changed to something more interesting.

1 Like
28

PS Darion Mograine is more powerful than us because he uses Death and Decay as an aura around himself, while we can only throw it to the ground.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

PS. Why, as Rider of the Apocalypse, did we not receive access to the improved Asphyxiate, which Nazgrim can use without any problems?

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wowpedia/images/e/e2/Regicide_-_Nazgrim.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20230724164022

4 Likes
29

can we get the old Animations back for Blood presence , unholy and frost presence ?
not the skills themselves but just the animations tied to cooldowns ?

maybe we could have

  • blood presence animation tied to Blood queen proc on saylan
  • frost presence animation tied to deathbringer
  • unholy presence tied to rider proc

i miss seeing that big Skull above my head

3 Likes
30

With all due respect, we don’t need old animations. We’re already riddled with them. UH doesn’t have a single good modern looking animation. If you have the glyph of the foul menagerie on you will literally summon those armoured skeletons from vanilla wow.

AMS is literally with no joke or exaggeration, the same dated and pixelated mess since its original creation back in 2008.

Blood’s animations are barely visible. Frost has very little going on for it, but at least it has Frostscythe.

Deathbringer has a decent new animation, that is a lot more satisfying than a floating blue skull. That is literally the only new exciting visual we got from these hero specs. San’layn has nothing impressive going on, and all them gimmicky riders just end up clipping each other as they all move to the default pet melee location.

So I implore you, no. No more old stuff. It looked cool at the time, but the year is 2024 and when you see what beautiful and visually exciting animations blizzard’s team is capable of producing, we should simply never ask for anything old like that.

6 Likes
31

Yes gimme that right now

1 Like
32

I agree that Commander of the Dead is not a good talent, even regardless of what other talents you pick. It just adds unnecessary complexity to the rotation where you want to cast it after the minions are up.

Please simplify it, for instance make it an aura on the player that increases all minion damage by 35% while Dark Transformation is active, so any minions that are raised/summoned during Dark Transformation still benefit from the talent.

Agreed, 100%! Especially with recent update to Apocalypse that no longer requires you to have Wounds on target to get all ghouls out, Festering Wounds are no longer such a pain to work with.

In order to make any rune other than Rune of the Fallen Crusader be competitive is likely to remove Fallen Crusader completely. For Rune of the Apocalypse to be competitive otherwise it would need a significant increase on the uptime, so that we can safely maintain 3-4 at all times. I think Festering Strike should be applying those effects in addition to ghoul, this would make Festering Strike and applying Wounds less of a chore.

3 Likes
33

I disagree, Ossified Vitriol is great by making reapplying Bone Shield stacks more worthwhile (and further benefitting from Deathbringer’s Exterminate buff)

This is actually a good idea, I would prefer two charges, but 1 min CD isn’t too bad. Question is whether it would not make Tightening Grasp OP since it also silences casters. I know it sounds like fun police on my end, but balancing is something Blizzard will not forgo.

I still think this is a bug.

Bonestorm doesn’t mention it should not benefit from Shattered Bone, and even more so is that Shattered Bone is a prerequisite to Bonestorm, kind of directly indicating it should work with it, and therefore with Insatiable Blade. It does make DRW come back too often, though, so it could be changed that Bonestorm only consumes 5 bones for maximum effect (it could even not give them back, just have it proc Ossified Vitriol).

Absolutely, all talents in the leftmost column of the tree are dead on arrival, not even because they’re bad, but because they are much worse than talents on the other side.

I include Rune Tap in the list mainly because it is somewhat counterintuitive in regards to Death Strike healing and that it has a rune cost.

1 Like
34

Problem with doing a change like that is the fact we already have a buff like this, when we cast Dark Transformation you have a talent Ghoulish Frenzy, it buffs both the player and the pet so we will end up with 2 passives doing the same thing, but Commander of the Dead will end up just being a weaker version of Ghoulish Frenzy as a result.

3 Likes
35

Mists of Tirna Scithe +3
Wounds Build, Run of the Apocalypse, Rider of the Apocalypse :

  • it’s not funny
  • slow gameplay
  • a lot of planning
  • a lot of management
  • frustrating
  • a lot of rng
  • unbalanced champions
  • too many skills to click

https://files.fm/u/vkne2eey92

I tried to do as much damage as possible with Bursting Sores but it’s just weak.

This only works in a few scenarios (and the group is strong and confident - MDI players xD) where there are 15+ enemy targets standing in one place next to each other and have a lot of health, because applying multiple wounds to multiple targets takes time and bursting them as well.
As you can see in the attached pictures - all the fixes we received do not solve any problem with Festering Wound + Bursting Sores.
The mechanics of applying wounds are too slow and bursting them too.
Additionally, the enemies are often scattered and far away from each other, so even if we destroy the wounds, we won’t be able to hit anyone nearby with bursting sores.

Rune of the Apocalypse turns out to be very weak compared to Rune of the Fallen Crusader.

Selected ± talents for the wounds build are visible in the attached ss.

Simbots can sleep peacefully. The reality turns out to be different. Of course, it was typical run, typical of a pug.

The funny thing was that whether in hc or m+ dungeons, Festering Sctyhe was often ready at the beginning of the boss fight rather than when fighting the next pack of enemies. Most often, the buff was running out when I started fighting another pack.
However, it was rare to get a boost during combat.
Therefore, throughout the entire dungeon, there were only single scenarios where I managed to use the Festering Scythe on 4-5 enemies during a fight, but most of the time it didn’t matter much because I had no way to destroy the wounds on these enemies.

If bursting sores are somewhere around the middle of the total damage dealt after completing the dungeon, you can really remove it without any illusions.
The game is clunky and slow and brings no benefits, let alone no satisfaction.

SOON
Grim Batol+3
Diseases+Wounds, Run of the Apocalypse, San’layn
https://files.fm/u/7rhg7c2gh7

It’s currently better to play than Rider of the Apocalypse.
I definitely have more control over what’s happening.
Unfortunately, there are (but usually rare) situations when I cannot consume diseases through Scoruge Strike, which causes me to lose a huge amount of damage.
San’layn is definitely a better environment for applying wounds, probably due to it offering more haste.
However, it is still a breakneck game that requires too much time to implement in an AoE situation.
Usually when I manage to do this, the tank moves the entire group from DnD/Defile and I have to waste time using DnD/Defile again. However, when the tank is constantly moves the group, I have literally a few seconds to use the DnD/Defile+SS combination, then I can count on luck and the Sudden Doom proc to burst wounds, which in this situation do little damage because the enemies are in different places.
You need to improve hit accuracy for Bursting Sores

As you can see, the beast from The Blood is Life hit me 7 times, healing me for a small amount of life, but it never had time to explode near the enemy and deal damage.
Improve this skill because I love the model of this beast.
I would like the beast to appear more often and be more effective. You can also add a condition that, e.g. below 50% of our health, the Beast will be summoned. I would like the beast to appear more often and be more effective.
Or another condition - when Scoruge Strike consumes your diseases, it will also summon a beast.
Just look for something that will make this talent work better.

Sometimes I couldn’t use certain skills, e.g. Unholy Blight, Raise Abomination, etc., but it was probably a problem with the beta servers.
Sometimes Rise Abomination did not infect diseases.
Raise Abomination only infects diseases at the very beginning when it should throughout its duration.

In my opinion, Raise Abomination should hit everything in front of it with Cleav and apply wounds

You should also pay attention to Blood Plague damage, which is very low compared to the other 2 diseases.

DMG with Unholy Blight is also very low (both for San’layn and Riders)

You should also equalize the duration of the 3 main diseases and improve the consumption by Scoruge Strike because it now consumes Virulent Plague and Blood Plague, and according to the description it should only consume Virulent Plague, but if the intention is to consume all diseases, please make Frost Fever also consume.

Btw. why haven’t we been given access as San’layn to:
https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=73070/incite-terror
https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=71623/delirious-slash
https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=70986/shroud-of-sorrow

Finally, I would like to ask a question: does the Ebon Fever talent also affect Pestilence(dot) from Rune of the Apocalypse and does it affect Unholy Blight? And if not then why?

3 Likes
36

Ok i want this next time i log in doesnt make sense for warrior to have it at all fear should be dk,warlock and sp talent only.
Also consider implementing this for dk

1 Like
37

Remove this totally useless in arena and out of arena.
We need strenght while enemy is alive not when hes dead.

1 Like
38

Thanks for sharing those numbers, very useful to see and hope this will relax some of the sim maniacs.

Rune forging is actually another topic of major feedback I’d like to give. We’ve all spoken about it many times before and it’s such a weird issue on its own but its increasingly apparent that the solution needs yet again be a systemic one.

Class flavour aside, and saving us some gold from buying weapon enchants, what is the point of rune forging? For as long as I can remember we just use Rune of the Fallen Crusader by default, set and forget and that’s that. Please consider the following:

Since the effect of that specific rune is so important to our damage profile (15% strength increase is no joke), consider changing it into a talent that does the exact same effect, put it in the centre of the class tree, easily accessible from all builds, and remove the rune. Call it Might of the Fallen Crusader or something like that.

That will then free up rune forging to be reexamined and repurposed for a different kind of gameplay. Said new gameplay should all directly relate to our damage directly, not our pets, and reinforce the thematic idea that death knights use enchanted rune blades to which they are bound.

For example Rune of the Apocalypse giving our pets’ auto-attack some secondary effect is thematically dull. Why not actually have a rune that makes our own auto-attacks have an X% to inflict wounds? Perhaps another rune makes our melee abilities interact with Virulent Plague to some capacity. Depending on the active spec, this rune of disease will adapt accordingly for QOL reasons. To cut a long story short, make rune forging relate to every spec’s individual gameplay as opposed to some average side effect (or completely mandatory main effect).

5 Likes
39

Who cares about arenas? The majority of this game is PvE.

40

With all due respect, regardless of game mode all players have the right to ask for the issues their classes have to be fixed regardless of game mode be it PVE or PVP.

6 Likes
41

I don’t want my PVE being balanced for the minority that do PVP thanks.