Players who actually know how to play thats who.
It’s good to see you have a sense of humour!
You are humor by yourself
You wont carry anything from dragonflight to next expansion.
No pvp achievements
No pve achievements
No elite sets
No prestigious cloaks
No prestigious toys
No gladiator tabards
No elite weapons tmogs
No weapon illusions
No glad mounts
Nothing learned
And so on
PvE hasn’t been balanced around PvP in very many years. Maybe it was in Legion (or perhaps earlier?) that they implemented a new system that allowed them to tune abilities for PvP separately.
Please let’s stay respectful and keep this thread productive, it’s likely things are being read.
On the other hand please refrain from posting joke requests such as this one:
Judging by how they quickly fixed Apocalypse wound cost it seems to me that they’re paying a little more attention.
3 Likes
Well this was joke😅
Dawnbreaker+5 - Half the dungeon completed
Diseaes Build, Rune of the Apocalypse, Rider of the Apocalypse
https://files.fm/u/e33czph6be
5th dmg with Epidemic
15th dmg with Bursting Sores xD
In the Beta version, the Epidemic skill is at least + - 50%-60% weaker than in the live version.
and the US forum is afraid that the servers will explode because of this.
I really don’t see any reason to sometimes use Outberak to refresh diseases when Raise Abomination is on CD or Unholy Blight.
It’s a waste of my time and space on my skill bar.
Replace it with Unholy Blight and reduce the cooldown even further, or combine it with a lone Soul Reaper that is completely unused most of the time
Unholy Blight, as you can see in a few tries, is a skill that doesn’t bring any joy - it’s even weaker than it currently is in Dragonlight, despite receiving the CD reduction.
In this version, it can easily be a replacement skill for Outreabk and offer more interaction in the future, e.g. by selecting a talent that increases the stacking of Unholy Blight or another talent that increases damage from our pets.
Or as a talent that I currently propose - additional wound infection up to 4 wounds on each enemy.
OR
Unless you decide to remove Festering Strike and replace it with Festering Scythe
The Stonevault+4
Wound Build, Rune of the Apocalypse, Rider of the Apocalypse
https://files.fm/u/qegttzcuzw
our damage profile can be compared, for example, to survival hunter
https://files.fm/u/ggzbm7kfqy
There was definitely a better tank.
Therefore I managed to do much more damage from wounds but it is still a poor result.
Epidemic is very poor, Festering Wound too, Festering Scythe too.
Defile, despite being buffed, doesn’t seem to be strong due to constantly pulling mobs out of its area of effect.
Every opener in an AoE situation makes me feel like I’m losing a lot of damage because instead of fighting and using my potential, I’m constantly solving the equation, and when the enemies have about 50% of their health, then I can start using skills.
The biggest loser will be Soul Reaper - even if the execution phase is played correctly, it does almost no damage and disrupts the entire rotation flow a lot.
E.g. last boss - 7 hits = 1.09 mln dmg = 17th dmg overall on single target
PS.
The US forum should deal with survival hunter grenades because in the blink of an eye it does much more damage than our entire skill set - it will explode the servers faster than Epidemic + Bursting Sores
1 Like
Unholy
There are some talent pathing issues I would like to highlight.
General spec tree:
- Gate 1 requires you to spend 9 points, which feels awkward. Foul Infections and Eternal Agony are required to open up pathing on the far left and right. 2 points are required to unlock Apocalypse. Frost has an almost identical issue in their tree.
- Ruptured Viscera is an AoE talent that is locked behind the Single Target talents All Will Serve and Reaping.
Suggestions:
- Make Improved Festering Strike and Runic Mastery 1 point talents.
- Swap talents to where Reaping takes the spot of Ruptured Viscera. Unholy Pact can become the “gate” where Reaping is now, as it has use in all situations.
San’layn specific talent issues
- During Dark Transformation, you want to press Vampiric Strike above all else to stack Essence of the Blood Queen to 7 and to empower the disease interaction with Infliction of Sorrow. This has anti-synergy with the Eternal Agony talent, as you do not want to prioritize Death Coil during Gift of the San’layn.
Eternal Agony is not a talent you can skip, as it unlocks 6 other talents.
Suggestion:
- Swap the Plaguebringer choice node with Eternal Agony. This would create a 3 line of Death Coil synergy talents. It would also put a more universal talent as the gate in place of Eternal Agony.
2 Likes
I have done some testing with Commander of the Dead on Beta. It seems now that when you press Dark transformation, it acts as a buff on the DK, but it does not buff us ofc. What i have seen is, when i Raise Magus of the Dead from Doomed Bidding they will get the Commander of the Dead buff on them. Seems like Blizzard have stealth fixed that issue without making a post about it.
Commander of the Dead still does not effect All Will Serve passive, this i hope Blizzard will fix. There is still no point in taking this passive as it has zero interaction with our other Undead talents, if just Infected Claw had interacted with the Skulker then it would feel less bad.
Also i had this idea i’d like to share about.
What if we made it so Gargoyle and Unholy Assault got baked in together, and Gargoyle got located were UA is. Remove the Death Coil ramping effect and make it so it’s a 3 min CD that last for 30 seconds that gives us 20% haste/damage increase with the extra effect of when you press this CD you spread 4+ Festering Wounds around you.
14 Likes
It’s a good idea.
But the developer can also change Unholy Assault a bit:
- remove damage
- remove wound infection
- remove GCD
You can move the wound infection to Apolypse or Dark Transformation (it’s best to combine it into one skill) and make it also infect wounds instead of Unholy Assault.
1 Like
The overall goal behind this suggestion mostly revolves around the fact the current Gargoyle has a flawed design in the Death Coil ramping effect, it worked before but now that Sudden Doom only reduces our Death Coils by 10 Runic power it needs to be changed.
The goal with baking in Unholy Assault and gargoyle is to also make it that our buffs are GCD free, and the Gargoyle kinda work well with this change as if Blizzard just make it last for 30 seconds then the buff it self can be tied in with Gargoyle’s duration.
How we are currently using Unholy Assault is 10 seconds after we started our dps burst window, instead of just using it right off the bat. This is because it only last for 20 seconds making kinda strange using this GCD/CD when all of our other CD last for 25-33 seconds.
Overall if this change would be implemented it also serves the theme of UH DK having minions doing different things on the battlefield, it becomes a little bit more unique, but also ensures that we don’t get punished in our opener when we start on every Boss pulls.
13 Likes
Well duh… I didn’t play till season 4 because Shadowlands put me off for years. Only came back for WW beta.
These suggestions aren’t about creating new talents but mostly reorganizing the talent tree and cleaning up each theme/category direction plus making some of the useless talents playable with what there is currently available. Plus reducing overall talent points so you can spend them where you really want to.
My suggestions for Unholy specc
going downwards and left to right in the talent tree:
Overall 44 points overall talent tree.
0.The 6 line downwards loses the most left and right nodes and for pathing the main change is on 5th row downwards instead going from 2nd from left or right to the next line diagonally to the nodes that as i suggested removed you can instead go from the most left or right 5th row talents diagonally to the next inner talent instead. And the node 6th row Bursting sores doesn’t go diagonally into the next inner row talent but instead the Ghoulish Frenzy node moves diagonally to Pestilence node now same analogy on the right side of the tree. Lastly from Army/Abom new choice node you can go straight to UA node in last row.
1.Improved Festering Strike changed to 1 talent point with current max bonus.
2.Runic Mastery node removed and replaced with Reaping. Runic Mastery current max rank bonus baked into Harbinger of Doom talent or at least the Runic Power Increase.
3.Defile change places with UB and Pestilence talent baked into it, now works maybe as a Disease too, for Morbidity and maybe Plaugebringer, Ebon Fever.
4.Festering Scythe becomes 2 talent points node with -1st point Vile Contagion talent -2nd point Festering Scythe talent, also maybe reduce the wounds amount for activation to 15 and for sure remove the duration for the Buff, it already has rune cost and specific requirements to activate why needs a duration on the buff too ??
5.Cs/Plaguebringer choice node splits on this node stays CS only
6.Improved Death coil in the place of reaping, since Reaping moved higher as mentioned,2 point node with old max bonus.
7.Ebon Fever moves lower in the tree and takes Vile Contagion’s place since VC combined into one talent with Festering Scythe. This talent node gets removed.
8.Decomposition moves into Bursting Sores node and changes to 1 talent point with max bonus. Even so is a weak talent maybe change it to use the flare up on VP same as when targets die but every time Vp ticks, maybe buff dmg if needed and hopefully is enough to get the bonus in most scenarios if not change the pet duration to as passive and leave the flare up effect as is.
9.Bursting sore move into Ghoulish Frenzy’s place.
10.Improved Death Coil node moved higher as mentioned so it’s replaced with Harbinger of Doom, which has the runic Mastery talent baked into it to make it a bit more useful.
11.Coil of Devastation takes old Harbinger of Doom talent node(this one isn’t the best but couldn’t fit it anywhere else better, at least you can go from CS previous node diagonal to the sides).
12.Unholy pact moves lower into the tree and this talent node gets removed.
13.Ebon Fever moves into this talent node replacing Vile Contagion.
14.Plaguebringer moves to Pestilence node, Pestilence baked into Defile.
15.Infected Claws stays as is but maybe apply this effect to all ghouls also but at lower proc chance maybe 15%,not to increase the power of this talent, but to increase all ghouls effectiveness overall.
16.Menacing Magus has Ruptured Viscera talent baked into it, if possible have it affect Abomination too, with a bigger radius/dmg explosion and 100% chance to apply 1 wound on the explosion.
17.Doom Bidding gets split from being a choice node with Gargoyle and replaces Coil of Devastation, this helps with pathing when wanting to pick this talent and makes more sense placing this here moving from middle, magus of the dead talents.
18.Rotten Touch stays same maybe make it works with epidemic too and counts as a disease for Morbidity?
19.Ruptured Viscera replaced with Unholy Pact talent(maybe increase it’s dmg since it moved lower into the tree).
20.Death Rot maybe counts as disease for Morbidity?
21.Army of the dead becomes choice node with Abomination talent, Abomination talent node gets removed.
22.Gargoyle/Doom Biding they get split as mentioned before, Gargoyle stays here as single choice and maybe buff its dmg to be a ST dmg talent that you will always choose for pure ST fights and maybe a choice also for burst windows fights.
23.Morbidity, only thing here is i would like to have more interaction with other effects from talents/or the class even some talents from general tree like Enfeeble effect that gets applied from the pet, Rune of Apocalypse disease effect and so on, or even from hero talents and this is more to feel that there is synergy with all our talents/kit more than its a dmg buff since you can tune it around all these factors.
24.Decompotision gets replaced with Ghoulish Frenzy talent back to 2 talent points with old effect and i would suggest to even add the attack speed part of this talent to all minions (All will serve skeleton, garg, magus, abom even minions from hero talents but at least the main kit).
25.Unholy Aura( One important buff/qol improvement, increase the range from 8 yards to 20-30).And also make it affect all minions even from hero talents.
Note: On this row its clear that i suggest buffs on most of the talents since they are almost last row of the talent tree, plus 2 talent point nodes so they reflect that with their power and between them but also with all the previous choices in your talents general/spec/hero talents and synergy between them).An example minions should count the new blood beast from San’layn hero talent tree and the 4 death knights you summon from rider of the apocalypse hero talent tree Or another one the disease from one of the riders Whitemane’s Famine(Undeath) and Incite Terror debuff count as diseases for morbidity.
26.Commander of the Dead buff make it to work on all pets mainly from the specialization tree talent(all will serve skeleton, abomination etc.) and maybe even hero talents. So maybe it becomes and actual choice outside pure ST fights which as it stands wont be the case even for ST dmg fights with the new San’layn hero talent tree.
General DK Spec tree:
I am happy with how the general tree has ended up, but there a few talents that would like to have been redesigned or changed in a way. I will only list a few easy changes as before mostly rearrangement or minor buffs.
1.Control Undead(one day maybe this becomes our tame pet for Unholy but for now) give it to all specs as a general class spell. Also March of Darkness maybe increase its potency from 3secs to half of current DA duration (if 12 secs then this is 6secs)
2.Split Enfeeble/Sacrificial Pact choice node and move one of these to Control Undead talent node place.
3.Have Enfeeble as suggested before work as a disease for Morbidity maybe, but most importantly remove the drawback on Sacrificial Pact talent, meaning doesn’t sacrifice your active ghoul at the time. I don’t understand why a talent that does meaningless dmg and healing kills your pet has runic power cost and 2 minutes cd this is insane. Remove rp cost maybe reduce cd to 1 min and half or leave it as is but increase its dmg and maybe change the heal to an absorb shield 10% or 15% potency instead to be more useful. Most importantly remove the cost and drawback even if it stays otherwise the same.
4.Remove drawback from Death Pact again same mentality with drawbacks, and i would suggest buff the healing amount since it has a 2min cd also to 80% or reduce its cd to 1 min.
5.Ice Prison talent reduce the cd on Chains of Ice with the root effect to 5-6 secs (meaning at least half) and maybe reduce root duration to 3 secs instead. Even then losing your main spammable slow will hurt.
6.Wraith Walk ideally i would like this talent to become a complete immunity maybe change it to 3 sec duration and increase it’s cd 1.30-2 mins, immune to all dmg and movement impairing effects and change its place to a capstone. But at least remove the channel so it doesn’t have a drawback, yet again why there is a drawback on a cd talent ability which isn’t that great for many reasons anyways?? and also make it you immune to roots for the duration.
7.Unyielding Will remove the drawback the increase cd on AMS.I understand that this a strong talent but its a capstone i mean come on, plus it has a complete opposite effect with another talent early in the tree that reduces AMS cd for the same amount doesn’t make sense.
8.Subduing Grasp a talent useless for pve locking Abomination Limb talent behind it so you have to waste 1 point. It does make sense thematically feeding into it though,so my suggestion make it last for 5 secs and the reduced dmg changed to 5% but works for everyone not just yourself. Still not great but gives some utility for your group and works thematically with Dk’s grips.
9.Death’s Echo is a great talent but as a capstone a little lackluster if not changing its position with WW(changed as immunity) at least make it also increase regeneration of the talents it affects.
Hero Talents: Just very minor suggestions here these talents need more time and testing but for now
Rider of the Apocalypse Tree:
1.On a Pale Horse/Death Charge. Thematically this is so good but since On a pale horse will only be useful for quests/farming and that if you only don’t have flying mount yet or something i would suggest make it useable in all situations but reduce its effectiveness to 50% or even less for the instanced content and pvp, and for an instance where you can use mount for example the effectiveness drops from 100% to 50% or whatever when you are in combat. It’s gonna be sad not see this talent used at all this expansion when it promotes so much about this talents tree fantasy. Lets not forget you are wasting a hero talent tree point for this why you wouldn’t be able to use it anywhere that matters even in delves solo content ???
2.Mawsworn Menace change the UB cd reduction to half so it doesn’t desync with the rest of our CDs. UB is a talent and it doesn’t do crazy amounts of dmg or anything so why not reduce its cd further so it goes along with our rotation and CDs usage.
3.Lastly again as general note make things like diseases and minions work with our spec talent tree if possible you can always tune numbers around stuff like that, this is a suggestion mostly to make things synergize between them and feel useful instead just asking for buffs.
San’layn Tree:
This tree has issues an example Visceral Regeneration talent giving too much recourses and feeding into spamming VS through Gift of the San’layn talent etc. since needs more testing as a tree i will only mention a couple of talents:
1.Newly tuned choice talent in addition have it remove the cost of raise ally, ideally that would happen for the class in general but if not at least give it to this talent.
2.Make maybe Incite Terror as a disease to count for Morbidity and make blood beast affected by minion buffing talents. Maybe even give some agency on how we spawn blood beast through the tree would help increase its value also.
General Notes:
1.Try to include more effects to work with Morbidity talent from General talent tree and even Weapons Runes, Same for minion buffing talents, include more minions/pets so they are more useful and feel more synergistic to the whole spec.
2.Rune of the Fallen Crusader as long as this rune exists to its current form will always be the only choice. As a suggestion make it a passive to the whole class all specs and then lets us choose from the rest of the weapon runes. In my wish list this whole system would be redesigned maybe dmg/defensive/utility runes categories on main hand weap, but hopefully in later expansions.
Thanks for reading and sorry for the wall of text!
1 Like
I think there’s merit in discussing the fact that UA has a bit of an identity issue and tries to do too many things:
- It’s a personal buff.
- It’s an offensive ability. (127.6% of AP is real weak)
- It applies wounds.
I think like Vislow says, these effects should be spread around and baked into different talents. I would personally do it this way:
- Recreate Vile Contagion to essentially be a big wound causing, cleaving ability. Basically what Festering Scythe should be doing instead of being the disappointment it currently is.
- I’d spread the personal buff on either army or gargoyle. A bit like what Chillmore
- That leaves us with a very weak offensive ability, which we could have completely replaced with a new capstone talent, or highly buffed so it’s actually a fun damaging ability. It could synergise in some interesting way with our execution windows, Soul Reaper and Reaping.
3 Likes
You know what, that’s a good idea instead of it being tied with Gargoyle, that would absolutely make Vile Contagion better as it will be an on demand Festering Wound spreader when you really need it.
I think moving Gargoyle over to Unholy Assault’s location, and replacing Unholy Assault by having Gargoyle apply Unholy Frenzy to the Death Knight would be a good change for this 3 min CD as well, making the buff and Gargoyle last for 30+ seconds over this strange 20 second duration we got with Unholy Assault right now would be a nice quality of life improvement. This also would help us with cases were things are to far away from us, we can just press Gargoyle based on it’s range, and keep the pain train going. Also the Death Coil ramping effect has to go, if you go San’layn your not going to be able to Death Coil spam as the focus is to ramp up your Virulent Plague/Blood Plague with Scourge Strikes for massive damage, it has gotten to a point were the Death Coil spam is a flawed design for Gargoyle.
Now i have made this suggestion before on many forum posts, but i think it’s time to retire Unholy Aura, this Pet buff is boring and don’t add any form of interaction with our spec.
That’s why i really want Blizzard to add in Festering Dead passive, i have brain stormed a way for this to be more interesting than what i suggested before.
[Festering Dead] for every time 1 Scourge Strike Burst 1 Festering Wound, Raise up 1 Skeleton Warrior. The Skeleton Warrior Charges in at the enemy striking them with Plague Strike which applies a stacking debuff on the enemy target, this debuff ramps up [5-10] stacks causing the enemy to take increased damage from the Death Knight/Minions.
This in of it self is far more unique than just a flat 20% minion damage buff with a 8 yard range to it, and Festering Dead would have more synergy with the spec. One of the major problems with Ruptured Viscera is the fact we are not Raising Undeads all the time to attack the enemies face. That’s why i think if we could have this passive, we could create a feedback loop on our Wound generating effect with Festering Dead/Ruptured Viscera, you burst 1 wound the Skeleton Warrior does his thing, then he explodes for some small damage, and a 10-25% chance to generate a Festering Wound in return, this also helps to make Commander of the Dead a much more interesting cap stone talent now that it’s a buff on the Death Knight that gets applied to all Minions that get Raised during it’s duration.
As for Raise Abomination, i don’t think this should be made choice nod with Army of the Dead, there wont be any point in taking Army over a 1,5 minute Abomination CD. So what i think Blizzard should do here is to just make it so you Raise 1 Abomination and 4 Ghouls. This helps retain the theme of us Raising an Army of the Dead without losing this important theme.
14 Likes
Quite like that idea, it adds to the fantasy too as the old WC3 necromancers were spamming minions non stop. Generally anything that adds to the idea that our minions are “quantity over quality” like someone said in the dk forum is good. We’re all about overwhelming the enemy with a literal army of the dead, not having specific powerful pets.
I wonder if we could combine this with your idea above by adding some sort of dynamic gameplay. Imagine every lets say 4 skeleton warriors, we sacrifice them and get an abomination up. This way the spec starts becoming a little more interactive and it’s not just about summoning loads of minions passively or every CD window.
If not the same idea could be applied with the magus skeletons. Every 4 magus’ or whatnot, fuse their essence and make one powerful lich.
DT should also be affecting the archer from All Will Serve. Generally like you and others have said countless times before, would be nice to have more synergy going on for the fella.
Alternatively, I wonder if Commander of the Dead could be a more interesting buff, that essentially makes DT thematically buff all our other minion related CD. So the abomination comes whilst army is up empowered by DT. The Lich comes through apocalypse whilst DT is on. Gargoyle gets an additional crypt fiend.
6 Likes
I like your suggestion. But as with my previous (long) post my only suggestions will have to do with talents as is, instead of creating something completely new and that is cause i don’t think they would do this kind of changes at this stage.
So since i suggested to combine Army and Abom into a choice node, let me explain the reasons
-1st Getting Army then second talent completely replacing it with something new doesn’t make much sense to me.
-2nd removing 1 talent point wasted from the mix
and as far as tuning goes my idea was having Army being the ST dmg option compare to Abom being the aoe dmg choice.
Now since Hero talents exist probably even with that tuning change Abom will be the real choice for now in all scenarios but i have made a suggestion to increase Infected Claws value applying to all ghouls instead of just the main pet, at lower proc chance plus even having effects from General tree or for example Rune of Apocalypse (if as per my suggestion Rune of Fallen Crusader becomes passive for all specs and then we can choose another rune) maybe increasing spawning ghouls value and specifically Army’s talent.
Also maybe fits as the burst-y option for fights that have specific windows for dealing dmg.
Either way for now making it a choice node at least gives us one talent point back to spend elsewhere since we always gonna pick Abom.
2 Likes
Most of the new pathing in the BDK tree looks allright.
But Gorefiends Grasp is extremely expensive now, probably a lot more expensive than it was in Dragonflight. I was under the impression you wanted to avoid that.
But a lot of the trade-off talents are essential in combination with the hero talents, and others are simply to strong to drop.
With this tree we will probably end up dropping capstone talents, which were also supposed to feel special, but just arent strong enough.
What made me happy was the merger of DT with UB. But why only this?
I have one more important question for the developer responsible for changes for DK Unholy - when I select the Summon Gargoyle talent, what should I click Deth Coil or Scourge Strike/Vampiric Strike?
Because in order for the Gargoyle to deal more and more damage, I need to use as much runic power as possible, but then I lose a lot of damage from Vampiric Strike and haste buff.
When I’m a rider, I lose damage from Undeath(dot) and from Trolbane Icy Fury and from Scourge Strike, which now deals much more damage.
Please finally decide on one reasonable direction of change for us.
Neither San’layn, nor Raider help me use DT and Summon Gargoyle properly. They are a mechanical brake.
3 Likes
I think it’s time for Blizzard to change Gargoyle, the suggestion i made to bake Gargoyle and Unholy Assault together would be a really good thing as it frees up yet another GCD in our opener, let alone that they can tie in Unholy Frenzy’s duration with Gargoyle so we don’t have this strange opener were you need to save it 10 seconds in during your burst window to optimize your burst dps with Festermight, and like Gorbathust suggested to put the Festering Wound application function from Unholy Assault in to Vile Contagion to make it an on demand Festering Wound spreading CD would solve our aoe opener on trash/council boss pulls.
10 Likes
Since Epidemic SD procs no longer pop wounds how about changing Festering Scythe to pop wounds instead applying them and the activation requirements instead poping wounds being applying wounds?
Bursting x number wounds for an effect to activate is very cool mechanic, I wish we had more effects interacting with it.
For Festering Scythe talent, it is overshadowed on its purpose from Vile Contagion atm plus you need VC to optimise its usage and since we don’t have talent points to spare to pick both you can maybe making festering scythe baseline or maybe free 1-2 talent points with reorganising the talent tree so we can pick both talents.
Either way Festering Scythe needs some buffs
Remove duration of the buff so we can more easily carry it between packs right now often feels bad getting the proc in times you don’t really need it and have wounds from Bursting Sores effect count for its activation requirement and/or reduce wounds for activation to 10-15 instead.
Some good changes on lastest update to our class will post more feedback for how they feel after more testing!
1 Like