In Dragonflight, every key I hosted I was tagging it as Learning and was typing comment that it will be a slow pace run. Guess what the majority of people that joined were. That’s right, faux-elitist speedrunners.
People don’t read.
I’d say that the penalty in this case is badly designed. The penalty should be applied on losing Honor, Conquest and progress towards seasonal mount / saddle, allowing those to go into negatives without limit and without it reseting back to 0 from negatives at the change of a season. It shouldn’t affect rating.
People leave because it is more beneficial for them to jump to the next dungeon group that stay in the current one. Give incentives to want to end a run even if it doesn’t meet the timer and you will massively reduce leavers.
In another thread I posted an elaborate way to solve the issue for PvP battlegrounds by designing their reward structure in such way that not only would it be more beneficial to stay till the end of an inevitable defeat compared to leaving immediately, but also giving an incentive to want to fight even a losing battle by further increasing rewards based on score difference to deter afking. If I knew how to find that post about a month ago I’d post it again here.
Generally, the idea is to design the game so that getting to the end of a failed run is for every player, regardless of their goal, more “beneficial” than abandoning a group and trying to find another. Abandoning should be encouraged only for emergencies like needing to help someone in real life.
Get over yourself Dewio. If you’re going to ignore me just do it. We don’t need your handwaving and virtue signalling as you go about it.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with pointing out this has been repeated a thousand times by people - such as yourself - that are unable to think about cause and effect. It simply won’t work.
The solution is to form social networks but “waa thats hard” and “blizz need to solve it”.
People quit M+ beacuse of the people in the group failing mechanics and wiping most of the time. they also may quit thanks to the few odd cases of harrassment or anti-social behaviour.
the reason it matters if people die and they care enough to quit (unlike M0 and HC dungeons) is they wont get a Good IO score.
Why does IO score matter; IO score is one of the most important factors to decide if you get an invite or not. even if your Ilvl is better then another player in the same role, it doesn’t make you more attractive to the normal PUG than having a bigger IO score.
When M+ was introduced Score didn’t exist it came about as a result of people not wanting keys ruined by inexperianced players after the timer was introduced.
So what ruins keys?; The timer is the root of the problem. without the timer, If you die, who cares. the boss is forward, rebuff and carry on. When M+ was first coming into being in legion we had a moment without timers, and most folks would play just like M0 or HC with a few no lifers making massive key pushes by using hero after each trash pack and waiting 10 minutes for resets (which is why timers was introduced) Death runs also became common pratice and was countered by introducing Death time pentalities, but folks was still doing speed run strats jumping up walls and stuff so they added emeny forces to deal with that once and for all.
But how do you fix the issue… Blizzard will likely never remove the timer even if its enabling toxic play-styles and Toxic behaviour towards others who are playing badly.
Now as i dont have the solution to blizzard has a timer on keys let me instead give you a suggestion that WILL likely work.
Put onto IO-score // M+ rating The left key Ratio. If you quit, go offline or otherwise fail to complete the last boss in or out of time L goes up, if you beat it timed or untimed W goes up. From the moment people are inviting have it showned right next to the M+ rating example; My personal L rating would be 3, as I complete dungeons even after time has expired, but other folk have abandoned runs i’ve been in, and my total completed keys is 21 giving me 21/24 or 12.5% Leave score
Now if someone was to be abandoning runs fairly often people would see before inviting them that they leave keys, the lower the completion % the more likely they are to jump boat. Just like IO/M+ score this will encourge people to stay, If i was inviting folks and I have the choice between a 1.6k score who leaves 12.5% of the time, or a 1.6k score who leaves 80% of the time, I’m going to invite the person less likely to leave as mistakes can happen and you can still time even after them.
A side effect of this of course shows people who are poorer players and trolls to as well. if people leave groups your in often and that causes you to be unable to complete it will be percisely the same as those who leave. it doesn’t care if you was the first to leave it is black and white. did the last boss die after the key was started.
m+ has no elo system
you can repeat every key as long you have the key
dont be butthurt, if someone is leaving a key
and at last, get friends/guild mates/ community to play with you (i know its hard to be in a social group)
in the dreamworld of these players “yes”
and because the topic creator mentioned league…just run it down, if you arent allowed to leave a key if members sabotage it with bad gameplay
its easy to use loopholes in these punishment systems
It wouldn’t work, people would simply stop pugging and you would have even less tanks and healers than you have currently.
It really needs a different approach, either something like FF14 does with rewards for pushing content with newer players or a total rethink of the M+ format. Perhaps an option to stop the clock and have a subs bench where people can sign up to join a scuffed key for specific rewards (could be gold/rep/ cosmetic).
Ultimately though, you can’t hold a player hostage if they aren’t having fun.
I don’t know how to break this to you but your internet connection isn’t some barbecue tongs you can click twice to make sure it will work for the next 40 minutes. Your Internet can randomly cut, it happens. Being punished because your Internet dropped or your cable unplugged or whatever is BS. This isn’t League of Legends.
What if the run I’m in is clearly bad, with people dying to frontals all the time, or the healer unable to heal through unavoidable damage? Why should I be kept hostage in what will clearly be a failing/depleted key and a painfully long run full of wipes?
I don’t think we should be punishing players this way, at least no more than the 30 minute timer other pugs have. Also, WoW disconnects for some people a lot. Not everyone’s internet access is equal.
Also, we shouldn’t be keeping Mythic captives. If you’ve tried over and over again to clear a key and it isn’t working with the current team, it’s just best for everyone’s sanity to disband. Some team makeups just don’t manage well. And sometimes players have bad days too.
You should not be doing 200k dps as a DPS in ilvl 615 gear. People are fully justified to leave and should not be punished if they leave instead of carrying someone through a key.
Yes, there are people pulling 200k dps in 615 gear. They really shouldn’t be in m+ and they shouldn’t come crying when people leave their keys.
To be honest, I agree with you. But if there has to be a “punishment” it should be the way other instances are dealt with. That’s why I said 30 minutes max.
Stop making 238525795834 threads about this. People should not be punished for being in groups they don’t like because it’ll only lead to two things:
Frustration from the person who doesn’t like the group, leading to bad or negative language
More frustration, because some players generally just disconnect
Even more frustration, because people get flagged/abused/banned (depending on thread) for getting into groups they don’t like
3.a) This will lead to even worse gatekeeping.
This class of idea is what makes LFR/LFD so bloody toxic. Finally we have a mode where we can evade the problem, please don’t bring it back.
If you want to see less PUG key runs then sure, Blizzard could implement a penalty system.
If people know they could be punished for leaving a group that isn’t competent enough to time the key, peoples’ criteria of who they will take into keys will become even stricter.
No, you can select “completion” in group finder. If you don’t select this, I’m gonna leave, if people in the run are wiping on the first boss and died over and over on trash before. Had groups like that, and people shouldn’t go into content, they are not ready for. Also, I don’t leave due to slight over-time, I leave, if it’s extreme, which happens sometimes.
Now, if this was soloqueue content, I would agree, that people should stay, but in group finder you have tools to mark the group to get like-minded people.
