Feedback: Mythic Keystone Dungeons

Community General Discussion
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The Tides of Vengeance update came with a fair few tweaks to Mythic Keystone Dungeons. Now that a few weeks have passed since the update went live, we wanted to take a moment to gather your thoughts are on the changes. This can be about anything you’ve experienced; be it specific dungeons, affixes, or the system as a whole.

If you haven’t yet tried some of the retuned dungeons I encourage you to try them out before commenting, particularly dungeons like Temple of Sethralis, King’s Rest, and Siege of Boralus, all of which received the biggest changes.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts!

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First feedback would be.

Please for gods sake, make pushing keys more rewarding, instead of less rewarding and more punishing.

you get 60 titan residium for pushing +10, then 4 more titan residium for each +1, up to +15, and then you get 3 more titan residium for each +1.

I dont understand the “lets punish people who do harder content” mentality.

28 Likes
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Please disable the API that makes addons like Raider IO possible. This doesn’t have much to do with the content as such but more a large number of player’s inability to take part.

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I understand the deletion of keystones was not a good gameplay element, but there needs to be an alternative to deal with “dead” keys. Depending on affixes a lot of dungeons start to become near impossible at high levels and if you do keys on a daily basis it’s more than likely that in 2-3 days you’ll be stuck with 5 dead keys in your group.

Then there’s some weird interactions with abilities. Like for example 3rd boss in shrine. Sometimes you’ll get mindcontrolled and right after you break your mindcontrol you get hit by a roll the dice Mind Rip and insta die because you’re not on full health from soaking orbs. Or on first boss in Freehold. It doesn’t happen often, but every now and then you’ll get clipped by a poop and shotgun blast at the same time and you just die with zero counterplay.

33 Likes
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What punishment? You literally just discribes things that are bonuses…

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too much trash and the dungeons take too long, for mediocre to bad prize.

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Some tyrranical bosses hp just scales too much on higher keys, for example the last boss on shrine after the words of power change just takes too long.

Also since I think it’s on the same note I will mention this here, we should have the ability to switch azerite gear in m+ dungeons, since it’s selling point is having a plethora of gear to adapt to fights I don’t understand why we can’t swap it in dungeons.

13 Likes
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Some bosses are still buggy, the first boss in TolDagor reset on a group I was with last week. Also I think that players who leave a M+ before its finished should get 100% durability loss, -20% rep with all BFA reps and resurrection sickness.

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I would prefer having another metric for determining if a key was successfully done other than a timer. Might just be me but i hate timers in general.

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Temple of Sethraliss changes were definitely great, though slightly trivializing bosses too much (can’t possibly mess up anything on Avatar of Sethraliss anymore, basically making it an NPC to get a few free % at the end by pulling trash in last phase).

In Kings’ Rest, The Golden Serpent’s Spit Gold ability still does far and beyond too much damage, doing ridiculous things like ticking for 70% of a player’s health on high tyrannical keys. Same thing for Kula the Butcher’s Severing Axe. Both need a huge nerf. Spectral Berserker’s Severing Blade does stupid amounts of damage on high fortified keys as well and is far too punishing for being relatively common trash mobs in its hallway. All of these things need a lot of attention, everything else is practically meaningless in comparison.

As for Siege of Boralus, changes have been much appreciated as well. Still not a fan of 7 minute boss fights in dungeons (tyrannical Viq’Goth). I personally don’t see the benefit in fights like these existing at all, they’re just a bothersome drag, regardless of difficulty in execution. No fun in playing a boss like that, especially when a ton of small things can just ruin your key instantly. Would suggest cutting Gripping Tentacle health by a lot and compensating with added difficulty in any other layer.

Underrot changes have been great as well, really fun dungeon all around with lots of room for coordination, lots of big pulls, strategic cc, healer attention via dispells and purges. Elder Leaxa no longer spawning multiple Blood Mirrors makes it a simple interrupt check, which is a fine thing.

Other than recently changed dungeons, Shrine of the Storm still proves to be hardly worth the effort for being such a long run with ridiculous boss health across the board and tons of oneshot or near oneshot potential on multiple bosses and trash packs, regardless of affixes.

In Waycrest Manor, right from the beginning your key might be doomed by bad RNG (door openings). Terrible design and should be removed/made static. Lots of issues with mobs running through walls, pulling through walls or entire floors (pulling Matron Alma through the floor, basically ending your run instantly).

As for affixes, some combinations should straight up not exist (Fortified+Teeming making trash take forever, even with 0 difficulty, which just isn’t fun at all and a waste of time).
Quaking and Bursting make you go insane as a healer, being kept from drinking all the time, wasting time yet again for no reason with 0 difficulty added. Unlucky Quaking timings can just straight up kill someone with no counterplay if some near oneshot mechanic happens at the same time.
Explosive is not a fun affix all around, which has been the community perception since forever.
Personally, I’m not a fan of Fortified and Tyrannical existing at all, and would absolutely prefer them to not define a week or key’s worth on its own (aka not exist at all). Would love to see some sort of experiment of having a week on Live servers or PTR at least without these and hear about what players think about it.

35 Likes
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Hi, currently finishing my +15 archievement and did a bunch of m+ this expansion though not as high as in legion.
First off, same as in late legion there is no real reward to do m+ or even high m+ exept to improve rio score, which is fun-ish but also instantly makes all keys lower than your very highest for that dungeon instantly a waste of time.
Second, by trying to make it so that you don’t mega pull like in legion you kind of ruined the fun and pacing of the keys. The best example of that would be the start of neltharions lair where the size of your first pull was up to you and what you thought you could handle and that was super fun. Compare that to the pack by pack approach in its rather boring.
Some affixes are vastly more fun than others in bfa simply because you removed the tools to efficiently negate them in many cases. Vulcanic Teeming Tyrannical infested last week was increadibly fun because you could do some ballsy pulls and just barely survive and really feel that benefit on your timer, vs stuff like bolstering fortified or something awful like that. I guess i just want to emphasize that by trying to slow dungeons down you kind of also killed some of their appeal.

Last point would be to take a look at affixes. Vulcanic, Raging, Teeming, Quaking all change up the key in some way but things like bolsterting explosive necrotic are simply not “fun”.

20 Likes
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I don’t like seasonal affix, it adds nothing but frustration.

And affix balance in general is very bad. Especially anything that affects trash (Fortified is main issue, but others like Explosive, Bolstering, Necrotic also create nothing but negative experience).

Trash does too much stuff you have to deal with compared to Legion and I don’t like it.

Also you should take a look at boss difficulty balance, especially on high keys (15+). The gap between easiest and hardest boss is huge.

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Kings Rest: Fix Severing Axe damage, way too high. Fix Spit Gold damage: way too high. Fix totems evading, if people fall of on third boss.
Siege: Last boss takes way too much time and tentacles affected by fortified rather then tyranical seems inconvenient.
Shrine: Same here, last boss takes way too much time on tyranical now, with the debuff changes, cant be intentend to be a 8min fight on high keys. Third boss, perhaps slow down cast of blast, there is limited space and there are so many blasts floating around, you cant barely dodge anything.
Freehold: Fix council being able to be resetted, sometimes with the blade whirl, you get knocked (even if back baddling like a retard) and you get pushed out and the boss resets, this is damn annoying. Reduce power shot damage of eudora and on first boss, they deal way too much dmg on high tyranical keys.
Atal Dazar: Reduce amount of spiders cast by last boss, this is getting out of hand on high tyranical keys, if you dont have some ppl with immunities soaking them.
Waycrest: Sisters are a nightmare on high tyranical keys, don’t know how to adjust them, but perhaps reducing hp or cast frequency? The rng of what way opens is punishing as hell, this should be a fixed starting point. The small adds before the last boss deal way too much dmg, getting one shotted on fortified.

Affixes: Remove bolstering, explosive and grievous, these affixes are just pain, with any combination and most ppl just skip doing any m+ for a week. Specially explosive and grievous are so bad designed, you dont have any counterplay against it. Bolstering is stopping mass pulls, adding so much time on the timer, that its just not fun any more doing m+ this week. Redesign necrotic, perhaps cap at 50% debuff stack, as its not always possible to reset stacks on every dungeon.
Perhaps make explosives be destroyable by aoe.
I think sanguine needs a redesign too, getting oneshotted by overlapping sanguinis seems kinda bad. Perhaps drastically reduce amount of dmg&healing they do.

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I would much rather the challenge be about boss fights rather than trash.

The affixes are also boring and punish tanks and healers way more than dps players.

We need some sort of affix that unless dealt with correctly lowers a player’s dps SUBSANTIALLY that they are peronally responsible for.

19 Likes
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Echoing a lot of people here but the ability to reroll keys is a much needed feature. There are so many times I’ve been left with a key that’s its impossible to form a group for.

Besides that the dungeon retunes feel fair although KR still seems to be the outlier on how punishing it can be. The ToS last boss change was brilliant though, makes the fight so much more bearable.

The addition of ahead of the curve and cutting edge style achievements is cool and a nice incentive for people to push. More in this direction would be appreciated. Maybe some cosmetics or mounts?

People like to complain about raider io et al but they serve as a much needed filter to help identify skilled players. It’s obviously a pain point for some but please for the love of god do not disable the APIs. If anything allow access to all of a characters completed runs rather than just the leader board so we can get more representative data.

As a healer I would like for less completely unavoidable affix damage. It sucks when a large boss hit comes in just as quaking goes off and you literally cannot deal with it. I feel that these affixes just feel bad, you’re never rewarded for playing around it (not that there’s much room to outplay unavoidable damage) instead always punished. It felt more fair in legion as it seemed like the dungeons were deigned around the affixes rather than the affixes being bolted on later

9 Likes
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These are just some of the things i believe should be changed to dungeons

With 8.1 you made a few changes to shrine causing it to be much harder than it was before. Third boss mind rend needs a nerf/redesign, before the patch it would hit the closest target where it now hits random people. It hits to hard to be a unavoidable dmg spike on a random person. Last boss needs a hp nerf to offset the removal of the debuff being able to hit dps players.

Siege of boralus last boss needs a nerf to the maximum amount of demo tentacles that can spawn on each platform. A overlook of how bolstering affects this dungeon as well would be nice.

In Atal’dazar i would like to see a reduction to last boss hp offset by making Priestess Alun’za an actual boss

Motherlode trash after 2nd and 3rd boss needs to be looked at to make killing it a viable option. Also please make the last boss move faster.

The door that is open in Waycrest should always be the same in a given affix rotation, a randomness like this has no place in competitive dungeons.

For affix tuning:

  1. Teeming fortified should never occur together.
  2. Stop explosive orbs spawning explosive orbs and getting additional hp off fortified.
  3. Grievous should be removed when getting out of combat like necrotic and the hp % for when it starts applying needs to be lowered.

Allow us to reroll our key by lowering the difficulty of it by 1(Similar to depleting but completing a dungeon). Dungeons will never be perfect and affix combinations affects various dungeons different, this would create less frustration for the overall playerbase

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Raider io is essential to pugging, when I pick someone with 1k+ score (this means they have done avg +10 in time on every dungeon), the chances are they don’t suck. This makes sense for when you’re doing keys >+10. The same logic can be applied to lower keys. The main issue with raider io is that this functionality should exist in game already. Rather than showing proving grounds that isn’t even relevant anymore in group finder, why not show the best key and time the player has for that dungeon? Blizz already have the data, they just need to show it to other people.

9 Likes
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Yes same here. Would love doing challenging dungeons without feeling rushed.

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Make keys non dungeon specific when they are above +10.

Let Titan Residuum be a drop from the dungeon end chests when doing higher than +10.

9 Likes