This data prevents people from actually learning the dungeons since you’re never picked unless you already know stuff. THAT’s the main issue.
And there are honestly so many things wrong with that score. So yeah - let’s say I have 1k score but I too trigger happy on AOE packs with lots of easy thrash and 1 hard mob during bolstering weeks. I have seen it over and over again.
One of the best groups I was ever in was only a +9 dungeon bug all low scores and fairly low geared. But everyone played it perfectly well and we pulled off a smooth run.
There are so many thing this add-on does not see and that number screws it up for good players compared to experienced players that are just plain bad. And I understand why it frustrates people.
5 Likes
Temple of Sethraliss: Reduce the damage slightly of static shock. At a +17 key it does around 80% of health damage which easily results in deaths by arcing blade damage/conduction damage which is already high.
Galvazzt needs some tuning in terms of damage or health because it’s a real pain on higher tyrannical keys and it’s basically impossible to outheal after a good amount of time.
Underrot: Fine dungeon overall good tuning.
Freehold: Also fine dungeon maybe the power shot damage is a bit too high from eudora but other than that it’s fine. Sharks at the third boss seems a bit bugged but i don’t have much information about that.
King’s rest: oh hell where to start, First boss Spit Gold damage is ridiculously high and needs some tuning.
The room after the first boss is pretty fine overall but please make it activate faster it takes so much time for itself. Or just remove the activating function and let the trash be attackable from start. Mchimba’s Health seems way too high though for tyrannical Keys. Trash pack to the way to the council seems fine Berserker are still a trouble at fortified Keys but overall it’s quite good balanced.
The Council takes way too long it is a 6 minute fight+ at higher tyrannical Keys also is the Severing Axe damage way too high and the duration too long for the amount of damage it does. The Health of all 3 seems way too high overall. Zul is fine, Dazar’s Health might be a bit too high though.
The Timer on Kings Rest might be too tiny if the Dungeon continues to be on the current difficulty.
Shrine: is completly chaotic in terms of balance there’s too much trash, mini bosses take an eternity, boss health of Council, Lord Stormsong and Vol’zith is too high out of 12 possible affix weeks there are probably 2 where pushing might be doable in Shrine all the other weeks you won’t even try it. Bolstering is also a way too huge factor in Shrine it needs to be addressed.
Affixes: Some combinations shouldn’t simply exist Teeming Fortified Explosive for example. All Explosives Week are bound with other hard affixes just combine them with some easier affixes (skittish/volcanic etc), then this affix might be more manageable to deal with. Same with other hard/easy affixes then you can get a good balance between weeks other than people just ignoring some weeks because of hard affixes.
Class Balance should get addressed too Rogue’s being a must pick in a group is not good design.
6 Likes
Find a group or some friends, get in your preferred method of voice chat together and run a load of +10s. It’s easy when you have good communication (and fun). Friends don’t need a raider io score.
6 Likes
Hello,
What i’m about to state is a lot of personal viewpoint.
I started doing m+ when it was implemented in Legion and tbh I loved the concept. The dungeons at the time were great and fun. They provided a challenge and it was something you could achieve easly. Even tough the late dungeons that were added (namely cathedral, return to karazhan and seat) you had a mix between the new “meta” for easy dungeon (upper karazhan) and the dungeon everyone avoided wich was seat.
The idea I hoped you guys would understand with seat is that no one likes dungeons cramped with scattered packs random OP abilities from trash that can decimate you in low cast times with hard to see spell circles wich were purple colored against a floor that is also purple…
Anyway what ended up happening was that the development team didn’t care about what the community felt and ended up doing a lot dungeons the way seat was conceived. That’s why people deleted keys it’s because the content/difficult is huge when compared to another dungeon. The gap is simply too great to ignore.
Moving forward. What I used to love in legion is something I despise in bfa. The dungeons and the overall difficult to reach the cap is now far great and the reward is only remotely interesting in the weekly chest. To mix things even more you have classes completly prun out of utility when it was decided to remove the artifact and give crap azerite traits. Thanks to overall community opinion about certain classes its extremly hard for people below the mid-meta of classes to get groups… therefore raider io score is low preventing people from getting in better groups hence making it even more dificult to get a better score…
And about doing stuff with friends… 4/5 of my guild moved on to other games lol… when it used to be atleast around 6-7 (peaking to 20) people online at any given time now its 1-2 same as my friend list. So yeah bfa isn’t working out very well, is it?
(edit: bad grammar)
2 Likes
Allow us to put the key in the scrapper and get it rerolled, at the cost of 1 level, without it rolling the same, e.g. if you put a Shrine 15 in it, you will get a 14 key that can be any, but Shrine.
23 Likes
I don’t really understand why any of the affixes increase mob HP above what the key level does. Any extra HP on mobs is only countered by the group doing the same percentage increase in DPS and it’s not possible to simply do 50% more DPS on some weeks. It also makes some affixes like bolstering far more punishing when mistakes are made.
So with that said, some of the changes I would suggest:
Fortified/Tyranical - remove the HP increase and rebalance the DPS increase accordingly.
Bolstering - remove the HP buff per stack and rebalance the DPS increase.
Teeming - remove alltogether, it stacks with some of the other affixes dis-proportionally. Fortified Teeming week for example means you group suddenly needs to find a huge dps increase from nowhere to meet the key timer requirements.
Quaking - should only occur in combat.
Sanguine - the patches should get consumed after healing a certain amount, places like Waycrest Manor are a no go for a lot of groups during Sanguine week.
Necrotic - needs a cap, large groups and long fights can make it impossible to counter/deal with for some groups.
6 Likes
Just remember to throw this: the ration between difficulty/gear is completly off. M+ are too dificult for the amount of crap loop we feed the scrapper every week.
Hello Blizzard , first of all I want to thank you for this thread since I lost kinda faith in you. i am a loyal customer since I am playing WoW for 14y straight on EU and US.
Main issue with mythic+ is first of all raider.io and then lack of real rewards for completing high keys, when I say rewards I am pointing towards cosmetic rewards as well as server first titles and mounts, something similar as challenge modes. As a very exped player and someone who has completed well over 30k dungeons within my playtime I can assure you that there is legit no point in doing keys higher then +10, because you do not get anything special rewarding for it. On top of that the r.io addon which I boykot with my entire soul and will until it gets removed and you do implement a system ingame similar to it. For example you could solve All problems with just a feature like implementing m+ score ingame and cosmetic items as well as titles and mounts for the achieved score. Eg. On 2.5k m+ score you get full cosmetic gear and everyone can see that you actually worked hard to get it and pissed blood for it and that you actually well deserve it.
One also important thing is that You cant change specs and gear in dungeons which is really sumb and there is no min maxing when playing dungeons, people like choices and they like when yhey can determine in what situation they can pick something. On top of that the bl sated debuff is stupid since you dont loose it when you die( makes no logic to me).
3rd and last thing are the MDIs which are total utter stupidity since there is no special bracket for it and people which would like to compete for it but cant since they do not have gear and access to mythic raids and some of bis trinkets. What you need to do is make a bracket just for MDIs and make people pick gear which only works in that bracket something like tournament gear which would make the MDIs accessible to everyone and make the competition transaprent to everyone.
Also the keys itself are totally uncessary because a group of 5 people pushing keys can get a key which is hard for that week and in some specific situtations where they combo is bad for that dungeon. Now you can tell:” But you can take someones else key and push it fron the grp”. Yes you can untill all 5 of you get the same key and just quit playing for that week which is totally utterly dumb. Great solution to this is to make the pylon instead clickable and select what levle of the dungeon you want for example if you completed a +10 you can pick only 1 levle up or 3 below in that specific dungeon, grps woudnt be forced to look for replacements for mates which they play all m+ with.
Over and out
3 Likes
My god! I can’t even do a +7! Stop your whining! You get 60! I only get 12!
As many have discussed, the barrier for entry to M+ is ridiculous now. Fort and Tyrannical at +2 are just a closed gate for some friends of mine, Fort especially. The issue here is that in the Legion M+ world, having the alternating affixes may have been fine at +2 but not when you do it in the BfA world of ridiculous trash mechanics.
The other issue here is that I had always assumed that Fort and Tyr would scale - thus a +2 fort would have a low damage and HP bonus to mobs compared to, say, a +5 with the scaling topping out at +10 where it would reach the numbers we had in Legion.
Regardless, meaningful trash mechanics plus Fortified is just death by a thousand cuts. Either one of these alone at lower levels would have been enough… The add Teeming/Fortified!!! No.
Other than that, my only real complaint is Temple first boss. Even with the hotfixes, the abilities are so similar looking that it’s just hard to see what’s actually doing damage to the group. Can’t we have a more visual clue to which has the reflect by doing something like the 3 witch boss in Waycrest with the easy to see mob size change? Maybe change up the colour of some stuff to differentiate it instead of most stuff being blue lightning?
2 Likes
Please make shroud disabled in keys. The class bias is so demoralizing generally but it is a tool that is so powerful in a timed event that it should not be there for one class only. I understand there will always be a meta based on utility but it feels too strong. You were fast enough to nerf the toy that negated the need to have a rogue so let them keep the skill for class fantasy but make it not useable in timed keys. Also implement a system in game so do not need to rely on raider io. I love raider io it’s the only way currently of knowing if a 385 geared person has ever done a key and knows tactics as in game there is NOTHING. Otherwise really enjoying the keys thanks!!
2 Likes
As many have stated before, a key reroll system would be nice.
And if you prefer to not have a reroll system, introduce a blacklist system. From the M+ tab ingame you can blacklist 1 dungeon, your key will not become this instance at all untill you decide to blacklist another one. With a cap of just 1 instance to blacklist.
This would allow the devs to get a bunch of info on what instances are being blacklisted most. For example, I can imagine Waycrest manor getting blacklisted like crazy during a grievious week. Especially by healers.
The class + instance blacklist combo and affix + instance blacklist combo can give the devs so much info on where weakpoints in the whole of M+ lies.
As for affixes themselves, a cap on necrotic would be nice, grievous might need a few tweeks here and there. Teeming always needs to be on high alert with instance difficulty.
And please just disable teeming + fortified. It just makes things more annoying.
6 Likes
Maybe just get rid of the random keys completely. It’s hard to learn a mythic+ properly if you are limited on time and the location keeps changing.
If the keys are needed to stop people just picking the easiest location then that’s a problem with balance between the different locations.
4 Likes
Class imbalance is also really bad. Especially rogues an Demon hunters are just so good for M+. Not bringing a rogue is just massively gimping your key. Made even worse by dungeons like Tol Dagor. Those 2 specs just fill up the melee spots by itself, trying to compete with them means you’re either a god at your spec or holding back your group by not playing either of those 2 specs. The range slots have a bit more variation, but suffer from the fact that 2/3 of the dps spots are filled by DH/Rogue. So that leaves 1 spot for a range. Elemental/balance/mage are by far the best picks to fill that one spot.
8 Likes
This is more of a comment on dungeon design philosophy in general, but I think it becomes exceptionally relevant once you start pushing higher M+ keys: Excessive amounts of trash that promote skips, waiting on patrols, and mob-dodging do not make for a particularly fun experience, especially when you’re running against a timer.
Unlike some people I don’t necessarily hate having to fight lots of tough trash, but the potential for pulling unnecessary groups started to become much more of a problem in Legion, and now in BfA it feels absurd. Pulling an extra group can easily result in a wipe, and it’s an incredibly harsh punishment for a player walking an inch in the wrong direction, using a single ability at the wrong time, or misjudging the position of a patrol. I think this kind of stuff has a compounding effect on the stressful feeling of M+ that turns so many players off and the unpleasant behaviour of those that can’t tolerate mistakes from their teammates, all while adding very little to the experience in terms of fun or meaningful gameplay.
Simply put, there’s a reason no one liked running Seat of the Triumvirate in Legion. If lower difficulties aren’t going to be relevant and M+ continues to be the primary form of end game dungeon content, then I strongly feel that the overall design should focus on tighter, more clearly defined trash pulls rather than sprawling mob-heavy environments.
6 Likes
Some Affix combos plus hard trash makes some dungeon available to only small part of the community. Only hardcore M+ players with premade groups are able to complete some dungeons. People leave early, when something goes wrong or just “everything” goes bad in their mind. It’s very hard to find people who wants and are capable to do even weekly run. This system we have now with hard mechanics, timers, R IO and elitist people makes this not friendly to PuG or do as a fun part of gameplay. Everybody wants to do dungeons without any problems but it’s impossible for average players. Legion dungeons with easier trash mechanics and less complicated strategies were far more enjoyable for medicore player like me and now I try to do my weekly run with SO MANY disbands of groups that makes it not enjoyable AT ALL.
1 Like
Adjust either the difficulty or atleast the timers for some dungeons.
We need still better class balance in M+. For e.g. a Rogue is kinda mandatory because of his Shroud, but they also do insane damage, so it’s no disadvantage at all to have one.
1 Like
Not rewarding. I wish M+ was similar to MoP and WoD challenge modes. For example since you got rid of tier sets, make more new cool sets, as cool as MoP ones for challenge mode. Could be split in tiers(like in raids). For example make better version of Feat of Strength achievement "Complete all dungeons on +5(+10, +15) and get this cool transmog, and for each milestone transmog gets upgraded just like in raids. Don’t give us a pet or mount recolor, it wont get my attention.
2 Likes
Around the 8 -10 key mark I definitely notice a comfortable drop in difficulty on trash in particular. Most recently I ran a Siege of Boralus 8 on tyrannical with an overgeared group, ilvl 374-377 dps and 380 tank/healer. It was a breeze up until the last boss which was noticably more difficult and actually got us slightly stuck. We had an issue keeping up with the demolishing tentacles, which could use a nerf in either hp or spawn timers to bring the encounter more in-line with the rest of the dungeon. Or the other bosses could be buffed to achieve the same effect. The boat/cannon boss in particular didn’t feel very dangerous.
That said I like the changes so far. Adds on the first King’s Rest boss really needed a nerf to hp ( allthough 75% might have been a bit extreme 
).
Personally I’m a fan of trash being more than just cannon fodder in BFA. I like them having their own mechanics or ones that forebode the bosses - it’s elegant and thematic. I like making some CC choices. Wish it didn’t hurt timers as much, but that’s the nature of the beast I guess. Maybe the timers should be longer on fortified weeks?
1 Like