the bigger the numbers the larger the computing output … which equates to larger LAG
in large player fights
its client side , so expect server lag
think of a 40 man raid in a boss encounter and everyone is doing 10’s of billions of DPS
think about it logically
this is why STAT squish was a thing .
That…doesn’t make any sense.
Whether the number is 21 or the number is some millions below 4 billion, it’s all still represented by a 32-bit integer.
Doesn’t matter if the first 30 bits are all 0, or a mixture of one and zero’s, your CPU is still going to go through those 32 bit integer for every single number.
for 40 people? im guessing you never experienced lag or participated in AV or wintergrasp during legion
or prior
it was and remains to be a LAG fest
its not only accounting for the millions of Multipliers and calculations of damage taken to damage done, its then doing that for each player in that setting and for the other variables including and not only movement, positioning, AOE, particle effects… etc
and then theres pets, scaling, stats, crits, internet bandwidth, addon etc other CPU usage
wouldnt surprise me if you guys will need to upgrade your rigs
Please stop talking nonsense…
That’s a threading issue in the amount of numbers that needs to be calculated, not the size of the numbers. Your CPU doesn’t care whether the number is 2 digits or 8 digits long, it still all fits in the same memory banks when being calculated.
The problem is the sheer amount of of calculations going on at the same time in a 40man situation. Mainly due the way the client is handling it.
TL;DR:
And that is waaaaaaay up since vanilla, causing the AV lag. You’ve nailed it.
Yeah not disputing that…
AV always has been a mess when it’s fully populated…
And with all procs, triggers and effects we have these days, it doesn’t get any better…
as someone who is heavily driven by obtaining power and gear, i kinda like that every new season is a big reset where i have to start over.
evidently i seem to quit 1-2 weeks after becoming full BIS ( or very close to it )
only thing i feel like they could tune down is the stamina scaling.
That is the conundrum here.
When there is a “problem” you don’t always need a solution. Sometimes, the solution is thinking a bit and acknowledging that there was no “problem” to begin with.
And that is what people are trying to tell YOU. Maybe instead of saying what others don’t get, you might want to reflect and get what others are telling you.
That is what people are trying to tell you. There are add-ons and options to make YOUR, and specifically YOUR, gameplay experience optimal.
Blizzard cant make the game just for you. Its up to you to customize your UI to your liking.
And lets agree on something : Aesthetically, anything goes. You are just as right as I am. But for example : I HATE numbers on my screen. So I took the off addons/options. Pure esthetic.
YOU hate big numbers. So… customize your UI… Its not rocket science.
And as many others said in such threads, its a really bad idea.
Let me put it in bullet points so its clearer:
New Raid : Why go to said new raid ? Well… if I dont get more powerfull (aka : more ilvl gear) then why go in the first place ? Just kill the bosses 1nce, see the cinematic at the end and unsub.
New Expansion : Why do the quests ? Why not just fly to the capital city and quew for dungeons all day… for 2 years non stop ?
Tuning issues : Oh… mobs do too much damage. Should we increase HP of players, decrease damage ? What to do ? Oh no… cant change anything.
These elements (new SOMETHING) implies player power. Its a trait of the MMO genre and you cannot… I repeat : you CANNOT change it.
Well… you can… unsub and play something else that is not an MMO…
So. You have two options :
Either you add more ilvl and levels to “soft incentivize” people to actually participate in the content. OR, you hard incentivize people.
For example : In order to quew for dungeons you need to complete ALL the quests of the new expansion. Ect…
Your choice.
It works fine in classic. It used to lag then but we got faster servers, but then they added a billion procs as well, restoring the lag.
Ehm, no… that’s not how it works at all …
Int+Int or dint+dint takes the same amount of time to add regardless what it says in the int or dint … or Real or LReal for that matter.
The most likely reason for the major lag we started seeing the moment there were more than 3 players in a zone, can be neatly traced back to when they changed how dots ect. worked.
Not to say there wasn’t lag before, but it got significantly worse after that.
In case you are unaware, we used to have snapshotting on abilities.
So if at the moment I casted a dot, I had 100% crit chance, the dot would then crit for every tick, even if my buffs fell of and went back to say 10% crit chance.
As you can imagine, good players could “abuse” this like crazy, and bliz did not like that.
So they changed how it worked, now whenever a dot deals dmg, it looks at you char stats, and opponent stats and calculates how much dmg that tick should do.
So the cpu now has to do dozen of calculations for each dot, where before it was way simpler.
Preach made a fantastic video explaining this back in the day in a very digestible way, and well worth a watch.
This is gonna be hyper-bad in TWW. The Hero Talents are literally what this video calls out.
I consider the current numbers to be the absolute roof of where numbers even make sense in a game. They simply want to create too much of a power difference between tiers/season but it can quickly get to the point where you can’t feel the difference cause numbers doesn’t makes sense.
Personally I’m in favor how tiers were in WotLK in terms of damage and health as you go on in the xpac.
thats pretty much what i said
its doing multiply calcs
for everything,
its through the roof
Yes, how big the number is, is largely irrelevant, it’s how many calculations that has to be done that’s the issue. Which is exactly my point, and counter to what I responded to.
You said it was the big number that was at fault, it’s not.
Yeah, size is only relevant when you hit large numbers that might overflow. Which WoW actually hit back in MoP hence the many healthbars fights. Not that it’s harder for the cpu to compute, it just causes undesirable results.
You put everything i say in a bad light just because you want to argue with me. I understand what you suggest with personal UI customization, but what you say its unsustainable because in the same matter if the things were the other way around and if damages were lower and there were people complainig about it i could answer with “it seems that is just your problem, go ahead and take addons and stop complaining”. Now imagine that there are people that dont know about addons or are new to the game and dont know how to use such features. I suggested to lower the numbers so that the gameplay looks more aesthetic, not to totally change the game. After, i also suggested that there would be nice to add a feature where you can choose between seeing stupidly high numbers or lower numbers, which i think its fair. I think that the game evolved over time because of such suggestions. I will stick to my opinion that the numbers are exaggerated. Thank your for your suggestions and i am aware that if they wont change anything i might have to customize it.
You ignored my comments relating to the player resets. And even without those, the true end-game for these games is fashion. Another bonus by having a stable level range means that the effort the devs have put into encounters can be easier preserved. Not particular engaging with how it is now where we can just rush through 15 years of content in a day, it’s like walking through an art gallery but all the centerpieces are missing from the works.
Again, fashion. And with a gear reset, a funneled way to get gear.
That’s… just a stupid statement. Balance would continue as usual. There would just be less need for the devs to constantly fix stat weights that are fine tuned for particular number ranges.
Well, for one GW2 disagrees with you, and that’s an MMO, but that is neither here nor there.
I will say, wow as a game, is not like GW2, and cannot go to that format, but locking the lvl, would at least slow down the insane power creep so we don’t need a squish every 2-3 expansions.
And as i’ve said before, the levels with a new expansion, is really only there to lower how you scale with stats.
The 10 new levels we get from doing the new campaign anyway, and we need to do the campaign to unlock the new endgame. So the same thing could be achieved by lowering how we scale with stats as we complete story chapters. And just keep the level the same.
Yes, there’s a bit of work in it, and all it would achieve is delay when we would need the squish expansions that usually break a large part of the old world, which is what a lot of players like to do.
It would also be lovely for alts I guess. Ones campaign is finished ones, it’s unlocked for your account, so you can just jump on your other chars …
At the end of the day, is it really necessary, that from Expansion 1 S4 → Expnasion 1 S1 we need a 3-400% dmg increase? Why not 50%, or maybe even lower?
If i look back at SL S4 to DF S1, the dmg difference is around 350%… Why? All it does is have even more of the squish expansions.
If the things were the other way around I would say the exact same thing : find an addon to make the UI as you like it.
And I preach what I say. I have customized my UI such that is see ZERO numbers. Not big. Not small. ALL bother me.
Its like : Person (A) likes the map in the top left. Person (B) likes the map in the top right.
Who is right? (A) or (B) ? And what should blizzard do ? Put the map on the left, or on the right (for ALL players) ?
The answer is they are both right. And what blizzard should do is give options to move the map wherever you want. You can even make it a square, or a rhombus. Dosent need to be a circle. That is what should happen.
So. Change “map” by “yellow numbers on screen” and you will reach the same conclusion :
Its not a “YOU” problem because its not a problem at all.
The only problem is that this option should be baseline in the game. Which it isent. But Blizz hasent been too bright when it comes to UI customization.
I mean… think about it : Why do the damage numbers need to be yellow? Why not red? Or blue? Or change the font ?
Or do what some addons do, which is show the numbers at the right side of the screen in some “waterfall” mode ? Why not that?
Well ALL of that is valid. There are addons for it, and people genuinely use them.
OK. And what happens if those people actually DO like big numbers? Do you know that?
And stop it with new players. New players have a TON more issues than numbers on the screen. The list is too long, and UI customization is at the bottom of that list.
Thing is : you have to change specs a bit to keep them fresh. You cant rely on “alts” and “main switching” to keep thing new.
Call it “tier sets” or “borrowed power” or whatever. But otherwise the game would become stale.
And inevitably, blizz would have to overhaul all the specs after a while to give the sense of “freshness”. Which is WAY harder than to just shrink stats after 2 or 3 expansions.
(A) Im currently doing the Remix for fashion (im a sucker for mogs) and I tell you its boring. Farming currency for mogs is just… nah…
(B) That might be YOUR opinion. But you dont share it with many. The reality is that Blizzard does BOTH. Ilvl upgrades every patch, AND, new cosmetics.
So it keeps 2 groups of people happy. Its a win-win IMO.
But why should I ? I lived through those expansions already.
And the current one gives already SO MUCH content I see no reason to return to old ones.
But you are right. Blizzard has 20 years of un-used space just sitting there. But… they are actually taking steps to use it :
So they are doing something. And they could do much more. Like why do we need a new zone every patch? Maybe… just use one that already exists. Update it, and add a new dungeon in it. Why not?
Im not reading all that