Feedback: Same-Faction Battlegrounds Test

[Serious-hydraxian-waterlords]

@Britneyfearz-earthshaker

You don’t punish the majority of the player base for playing their favorites, people are given that choice for a reason, to play what they like. And because they opt to play what they like, they shouldn’t be punished for it by not being able to play the game. Especially not because of people like you whose sole aim, apparently, is to punish the way other people like to play this game.

I’d agree if it was an issue that made it unfair for one faction, but the fact that you get longer queue times is not unfair because it’s the direct consequence of your collective faction-stacking meta-slaving.

You and Bob or John may love Horde and not follow the meta-slave mentality, and yes it’s sad that you have to “suffer” the longer queues, but that’s the price you pay/the sacrifice you make for playing Horde.

Be intellectually honest with yourself.

The organic result of more Horde = longer queues for Horde.

It’s a natural consequence.

@Britneyfearz-earthshaker

Maybe you should run a fact check on Earthshaker’s stats and see how hard we supposedly ‘dominate’ the server with our 30-70 in favor of the alliance.

I’m generalizing because Horde massively dominate TBC realms combined. Your server may not be Horde dominant, but the majority total are, especially after the boosts.

@Britneyfearz-earthshaker

Besides that, the opinion is not subjective in the least.

It is. Your opinion on rolling a ‘sick looking Undead because it’s sick and Alliance look DUMB’ is subjective.

@Britneyfearz-earthshaker

You’re talking like the majority of the player base are meta slaves but you fail to provide data anywhere.

I didn’t say the majority are meta-slaves, anywhere. A lot of them are, though. I don’t need to post “data” to prove something so obvious, unless you’re being intellectually dishonest or just absolutely naive.

Meta-slaves’ influence (through Discord/YouTube/Twitch, etc) rapidly spreads to the average player who thinks “Hey, I’ll roll Undead Warlock for the racial in PvP because this guide said it’s the BIS…” etc. This is why Horde dominate the overall population of TBC realms because of this widely accessible information and quite frankly, in-your-face information, like;

“WHAT’S UP GUYS! Today we will be showing you what race is the best if you’re wanting to PvP seriously, just pick Undead-- remember to smash that like button!”

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Edit: Also, if you’re wanting some stats/data, then this may help you understand:

Faction Imbalance, Racials, and Blizzard's Solution

[Cleavedge-mograine]

Ok so here’s some basic math.

As horde @ 200 honor per hour (40 min queues, 20 min games), which means 100% win rate, you need 89 hours /played for 1 piece of gear (17.800 / 200).

89 hours. That’s almost 4 days /played. For 1 piece of gear. This is totally absurd.

For a full set of blue gear + epic off-set pieces + rings, trinkets and weapons, you would need 202.055 honor points. That’s about 1010 hours playtime needed @ 100% win rate. Or roughly 42 days /played. For a starter set of pvp gear.

I suggest you install an honor per hour addon to get a baseline and do you own calculations of what you would need. I don’t have enough data for a precise guesstimate yet, but today it’s been around 60-120 per hour playing in pugs. You can extrapolate from that the REAL time required for a full set.

Same faction BGs are much needed despite what alliance players claim.

[Serious-hydraxian-waterlords]

@Cleavedge-mograine

Ok so here’s some math.

As horde @ 200 honor per hour (40 min queues, 20 min games), which means 100% win rate, you need 89 hours /played for 1 piece of gear (17.800 / 200).

89 hours. That’s almost 4 days /played. For 1 piece of gear. This is totally absurd.

WHAT!? As an Alliance player who actively engages in BGs for 10+ hours a day, losing probably 80% of the games (we don’t premade) to Horde premades or just better teams (because they’re all geared and organized) I have to disagree with the myth that we gear up MUCH faster.

Alliance premades? of course, but we don’t all have access to premades nor want to be that sweaty.

Horde are so self-entitled it’s insane. I made around 3k honor in 4 hours yesterday and lost almost every BG. It may be quicker than what Horde can gain due to queue times? sure, but it’s not massive at all. Most Horde teams I go against are more geared too…

[Bulkki-bloodfang]

I’d assume based on the most comments on this thread from horde side who were actually able to play pvp in long time it should be obvious Blizzard shouldn’t use weeks or not even multiple days to analyze outcome of the testing but rather give us back this feature since the qol impact is so huge that after experiencing this there’s not much point to wait weeks sitting on 1-2h ques because we know there’s working solution already.

Everyone who keep complaining about faction balance just get real since this won’t make people reroll of it won’t change your game experience in such huge matter that you would say “the game isn’t what it used to be” and tbh it shouldn’t be what it was in the past since much has changed from original tbc and if we keep war games out one major feature such as battle grounds and arena will not be playable at all as it hasn’t been since launch of tbc

[Inkassokrav-kazzak]

What about us that play with a lot of people that do not want to faction change ? This change was good for everyone that wants to do BG. Everyone had instant que, it was the best thing ever with such low honor gains.

[Chromie-zandalar-tribe]

Situational. In early seasons especially ally racials are insane as getting a sap on an enemy rogue for example via perception will literally win you games. Dwarf racial is the best for priest, better than wotf.

Some yes, but not that much. People who are 70 and have arena teams and guilds ready and full pvp gear are not going to suddenly reroll horde and start all over again. Some late joiner andys will probably pick horde, but it won’t be a significant difference.

Still won’t make a difference. 99% of people won’t be changing sides and starting all over again when they have just finished gearing up and finding people and guilds to play with. Even if you removed all racials from bgs/arenas it would not move the needle at all. Horde is overall much more popular and it is not only due to PvP. Most people play horde so obviously their friends will join horde as well, regardless of the racials or bg ques.

According to IronForge.Pro faction balance in Classic on PvP realms was 47% - 53%, which is almost even. In TBC it has already changed to 39% - 61%. It shows that some players did in fact change their faction, or at very least most new players joined Horde. If so, racials are clearly good enough reason to switch sides, despite the fact that leveling in TBC with your old char would be easier.
I know some people myself that considered switching to Horde for TBC. Apart from shorter queue times there is no reason to play Alliance if you are interested in PvP. If this last adventage, the only reason to even consider Alliance, is removed, I wouldn’t be surprised if the faction balance becomes 20% - 80%.

This is probably true, allys dont care about pvp which is the problem. If they actually qued bgs we would not have this problem.

It’s not that Alliance players don’t care about PvP, it’s the other way around - players who care about PvP don’t join Alliance. To fix this Blizz should give some initative for PvP focused players to play Alliance, not buff Horde even more.

That’s why you can migrate to an ally populated realm or go to a PvE realm if you don’t like wpvp

But I love World PvP! The problem is that for World PvP to work, there can’t be too big faction imbalance on the server. Otherwise you’re only getting ganked and have no chance of securing any world PvP objectives.

[Bulkki-bloodfang]

About my experience and calculations it would take 4-5 months to get blue pvp set so not realistic to think even farming that. When I compare last AV weekend and wargame honors I did get same amount of honor almost 10 times faster

[Inkassokrav-kazzak]

What the faction change people do not understand is that a faction change will not change the q time instant, it will take up to half a year at least and also it will still be a huge gap, if you want proof of this just see the que time on current version of wow even with the merc mode, horde still has long que time , 10-15 min and some times 20 min. and this is a free thing they got and non permanent.

[Cleavedge-mograine]

Ok so you get around 750 honor per hour supposedly losing 80% of ur games.

During same faction BG test I was making around 1500 per hour playing in premade (nearly 100% win rate).

I tested today and would get anywhere from 60-120 honor per hour after they reverted the change.

Which means despite losing about 80% of your games, you still get about 833% more honor per hour than I did (using my average of 90 honor per hour).

How is this not a massive difference?

[Týph-kazzak]

took me over a whole week to get a 8k honor trinket :’) good times

[Bulkki-bloodfang]

You may have missed my point. I’m voting for war games definitely. Faction change isn’t even something one could consider when playing with 10+ irl friends. I’ve been playing retail and yes I know the difference as que on horde vs using merc and farmed all my honor using merc

[Möylä-stormreaver]

@Chromie-zandalar-tribe

According to IronForge.Pro faction balance in Classic on PvP realms was 47% - 53%, which is almost even. In TBC it has already changed to 39% - 61%. It shows that some players did in fact change their faction, or at very least most new players joined Horde. If so, racials are clearly good enough reason to switch sides, despite the fact that leveling in TBC with your old char would be easier.

And how can you prove they specifically rerolled due to racials? I personally don’t give a crap whether I have wotf or perception, and I doubt most players outside the 2000+ current ratings care about it either. I’m playing horde because I was horde in Classic and all my friends are horde as well. If they went to Ally side in TBC I would have also gone ally and not cry about racials.

How about people are going mostly horde because it is the bigger and more appealing faction? Shouldn’t come as a surprise that people usually join their friends, and if the majority of wow players are on horde, obviously horde will also pull in more friends to play with them, thus making the faction balance slowly worse and worse. And it has nothing to do with racials.

[Serious-hydraxian-waterlords]

We both don’t know the exact math behind who earns more honor because I don’t track that religiously like you seem to do, but saying something like “1 piece of gear every 80-ish hours” while I have 2 pieces in like a week because of the amount of losing, and get this; when they did same faction BGs, we we’re going against Alliance premades which didn’t help at all.

[Trixit-gehennas]

This is my first comment ever, and probably my last, but I beg you - please implement the system again.
The majority of your player base is boomers, that doesn’t have the required time to wait for the queue to pop. It was a great implementation, that indeed should be put into use again.
Please!

[Subterra-zandalar-tribe]

Instant queue is great . Loved it , but why remove it again? Why tease me like this.

[Inkassokrav-kazzak]

Oh, nono i agree with you. I want this in fully aswell, was just a reply and a added input that faction change is a very bad solution to this problem and it is a gamble to add it since it never worked out good in private server community either without them giving “X faction X bonuses” and yet it struggled to balance out. Only way i have heard it work out is when you allow the same faction to fight each other if there is long matchmaking time.

[Cleavedge-mograine]

Let me put it another way then: Did you play 178 hours in that week? That’s impossible since there are only 168 hours in a week. A horde player would need 178 hours @ 200 honor per hour (which is WAY higher than most players’ ACTUAL honor per hour atm) to earn 2 pieces of gear. Also you call us self-important / entitled, but somehow you are supposed to earn gear as quickly playing casually as someone who dedicates their whole life to sweaty premades? I really do not follow your logic at all, despite your name, you do not seem serious at all.

Or put another way: Playing 10 hours a day, a horde player would need 17-18 days to get the same 2 pieces (again, at 200 honor per hour, which is nowhere close to what people actually get atm) that you got “in like a week”.

How is that not a major difference again?

All we are asking for is a more level playing field, indeed it seems that you are the one who is self-entitled here.

[Inkassokrav-kazzak]

Well, this might be a shocker, horde faces premades aswell from their own faction. that you manage to get 2 pieces of gear a week is insane, in 3 weeks i have only been able to get my 8k honor pvp trinket and i have satt in que for most of my play time, but when it takes 1.5 hour for a bg to pop it is impossible compared to instant and if it is a loss atleast you get a free mark to cash in.

[Piffthemd-noggenfogger]

I agree that going sfaction bgs and then some fixes to faction inbalance is probably the better way, but that’s just narrow minded thinking regarding transfers.

Blizzard has all the power to give several incentives for solo players and bigger groups (guilds etc.) to transfer to ally and speed up the process same time. You could have xp boost / free level 60 char upon transfer/drink,food in arena for all ally classes, whatever gets the people moving enough to balance but don’t overflip. And don’t give me the small changes crap because we are already way off of that.

It could be measured by surveys for example what would make people change to ally. I know it’s a dangerous route trusting Blizz with any of this omegalul but it definitely is a possible one.

[Týph-kazzak]

also the other thing to notice which is not healthy for the game. Many horde players are afk farming ( yeah ive done my fair share aswell) because we litreally need to “play” the entire day to keep up. I’d love to be able to focus and play games after work but now i’m finding myself afk lurking in games during work hours to try get that extra 100 honor.

its actually quite ridiculous