Feedback: Unholy Death Knight

With the rework to Unholy Death Knight, we can finally play out as a master of undead and diseases, but, i can see that we still have some bad passives in the talent tree, i think this needs to be changed, and some talents needs to be relocated.

  1. Menacing Magus. This passive is still in the talent tree, this should just be baked in to our Magus of the Dead, it feels bad taking a passive that strictly is AOE and does not provide any dps upgrade on single target, i would rather see the return of Raise Sludge Belcher in this location.

(1) Raise Sludge Belcher back in Legion improved our pet Ghoul by turning it to an Abomination, which cleaved out side of Dark Transformation, and AOE’d when transformed.
(2) Why i think this is better to add here over Menacing Magus, has to do with flavor, and to give us the feeling that we are getting better at fleshcrafting our meat bag undead constructs, simple thing you can add to Raise Sludge Belcher is a 10% damage and health buff and call it at that. This will achieve so our primary pet has some interaction, and choices in the talent tree to make us be able to pick more choices in it. Also, Raise Sludge Belcher gives a physical Death Grip, and makes it so when you use your defensive pet CD out side Dark Transformation, it won’t stop attacking while it’s active.

  1. Ghoulish Frenzy is an incredibly boring passive, which is a discount Commander of the Dead buff. My suggestion is to relocate All Will Serve in this spot, and add a new follow up passive where the Skulker is located.
  1. As for where the All Will Serve was located, i would love to see a passive that makes Dark Transformation work with the Skulker as well. Here are what i think it should do. Dark Transformation now has a 1,5 minute CD, and last for 20 seconds up from 15 seconds. The All Will Serve Skulker will be transformed to a Bone Lord. The Bone Lord has several skills it uses during Dark Transformation.

(1) When Dark Transformation is cast, it uses Bone Storm, charging in to the focused enemy target to deal damage, Bone Storm last for 4 seconds and can be extended by Death Coil.
(2) When Bone Storms duration expires, the Bone Lord will use Bone Cleave, to cleave the enemy target.
(3) For each time the Bone Lord deals damage, it has a chance to raise a Lesser Ghoul, when Sudden Doom is used to trigger Bone Cleave/Bone Storm, it will also have a chance to raise a Lesser Ghoul but at the half of it’s chance, something like, if it had 30%, then it would be a 15% chance when it’s at reduced effectiveness.

  1. I’m sad to see Soul Reaper being removed, on live it kinda started to feel good to press as Unholy Death Knight, because it provided damage buff to our minions during execute phases. That’s why i think Soul Reaper should be brought back on Alpha, and have Reaping apply that buff effect again. The only thing i think they could change with Soul Reaper is like this.

(1) Soul Reaper is now a Disease that deals damage for the next 6 seconds it’s active on the enemy target. Each time you press Soul Reaper on the target, it triggers Reaping, to buff minion damage by 10%. This only works on enemies at or below 35% health.
(2) It would add some needed flavor for both the Minion and Disease play style. In addition, Soul Reaper could also raise a Lesser Ghoul, both when you have pressed Soul Reaper, and after 6 seconds, it also raises another Lesser Ghoul, when it’s dot duration on the enemy target has expired.

  1. Next talent that needs to be removed, is Ancient Runes. Ancient Runes is the same as Festermight, an incredibly boring passive, which now with the new design will conflict with the new play style. That’s why i think Blighted should be relocated here. Blighted is strictly a Disease talent which pet builds are forced to take to gain access to Ancient Runes.
  1. What they could add in Blighted’s current location, is a choice nod with Summon Gargoyle, and Unholy Blight. Here is what i think they can do with them.

(1) Summon Gargoyle still has it’s terrible Runic Power ramp up mechanic, this is a relic of the past which just like Ancient Runes=Festermight conflicts with Unholy’s rotation, both on live, and now on Alpha. What they should do with Summon Gargoyle, is to give it the Demonic Tyrant treatment by baking Commander of the Dead in to Summon Gargoyle. If Army of the Dead is talented it will just get summoned by it. This is to save us from having to many CD to press at the same time, or that we need to macro them in. Why i think this is a better approach to this talent, is that, then we have an undead commander unit, to give damage buff to our undead minions.
(2) Another thing they could do with Summon Gargoyle, is to make it Summon 3 Gargoyles, to attack the enemy target, if they did it this way, they could add in an effect that for each attack they do, they will increase both Critical Strike, and Critical damage by 0,3% to undead minions, for each attack they do to the enemy target, and stacking as high as all the attacks they can do in a span of 30 seconds. This is a buff on the Death Knight, and not a debuff on the enemy.
(3) Unholy Blight. This should work like it does on live where our Dark Transformation pet emits Unholy Blight. Why make this a choice nod with Summon Gargoyle?. I think it’s good location to have a choice nod between undead focused CD, vs a Disease focused CD. Unholy Blight could do several things to spice up the Disease build. One thing it can do is to increase the Disease damage the enemy take during Unholy Blight, next is to make Unholy Blight deal respectable damage during Dark Transformation’s duration, also by making it last as long the Dark Transformation CD is up, it could give us a way to maintain it to keep the Disease damage pressure up. Maybe Unholy Blight should also apply both Virulent Plague, and Dread Plague to all targets hit by it. But that would require some work to Dread Plague if so.

  1. With the change i suggested for Summon Gargoyle, i think Unholy Aura can be located back to where Commander of the Dead is located on Alpha. In Unholy Auras location we could get 2 new passives added.

(1) Justice of the Grave. Every 10 seconds when you use Putrefy, your other undead minions have their duration extended by 1-2 seconds.
(2) The next passive will be located between Reanimation and Raise Abomination. The name of the skill should be called like this. Defiler. Defiler, each time a Ghoul is detonated by Putrefy, they will drop a smal pool under the enemy target, this pool is Defile, like we have on live, but a little smaler in size, but with ability to Putrefy your minion, i think it would be cool if they drop Defile to deal damage on the enemies. Maybe while standing in the Defile, the enemy can take increased damage from all undead minions as well, and both the Death Knight and his undead minions have increased movement speed while standing on Defile.

  1. As for the Apex talent, i hope Blizzard will change our Apex talent, to fit better with our new Unholy design. Why i think it needs a change has to do with how boring the Death Coil/Epidemic morphing in to Necrotic Coil/Graveyard. Now they aren’t boring per say, but, i feel like this would be better, if they were their own talents in the talent tree, instead of it being tied to the Apex passives. At the moment, one of the Apex passives has a picture of a Lich on it, i’m really sad to see Blizzard not taking advantage on us gaining access to a Lich minion we could raise from a certain way we play. For example, we are raising a ton of undeads now, so why not make the Apex talent revolve around a reward structure for raising so many undeads as fast we can during the fight. Here is an example i think would make alot of sense to do in the Apex talent. When you have raised 30-50 Lesser Ghouls for example, your next Undead minion will be raised up as a Lich, that fights for you for 10-15 seconds, the Lich’s duration can be extended by passives, or talents in the talent tree. The Lich has several abilities it uses. The Lich benefits from talents that interact with the Magus of the Dead minion.

(1) Deathchill Bolt. Deathchill Bolt deals shadowfrost damage. This skill slows the enemy target by 50%, while also increasing the damage they take by 1% up to 5%-10%.
(2) Shadow Fissure. The Lich drops a Shadow Fissure underneath the enemy target to deal big damage, Shadow Fissure also roots the enemy in place for 1 second when hit.
(3) Unholy Empowerment. When the Lich has been raised, it will buff the Death Knight, and all his undead minions with 10% damage and haste, the buff last for 15 seconds.
(4) Another thing the Lich could do is that it also raises 1-2 Lesser Ghouls while active, it could have a 10-15 second CD, that would just further the theme, and hammer down that this is an Apex talent. It sort of needs to feel special, it is half way there, but by adding a Lich over the Death Coil effect instead, i think you can achieve a more thematic, and a fulfilling feeling to the Apex talent.

  1. With all the undead we raise on Alpha, i think it would be cool to bring back Ruptured Viscera. This used to detonate our Ghouls when their duration expired, it had a chance to generate Festering Wounds, they could just tweak this passive a bit and make it more interactive.

(1) Each time a Lesser Ghoul explode, they have a chance to make your next Scourge Strike to raise an additional Lesser Ghoul alongside Festering Strikes effect. So 2 Lesser Ghouls, instead of 1.
(2) When 1 Lesser Ghoul gets Putrefy, Ruptured Viscera’s Corpse Explosion effect has a chance to chain of to another Lesser Ghoul, causing it to enter a state of Unholy Frenzy from the effect of Putrefy. This can only chain of one time per Lesser Ghoul.

  1. I am also going to address the elephant in the rom. Where is our Necrotic Plague?. With the new rework to Unholy Death Knight, bringing back Necrotic Plague would make so much sense, i think with how we raise Lesser Ghouls, and have a more focused Disease play style, it would be smart to have it located as talent path along side Festering Scythe.

(1) Necrotic Plague when talented, replaces Dread Plague. When you press Outbreak, you’ll only be able to apply Necrotic Plague to one target. Necrotic Plague each time it deals damage, will bounce over to the closest enemy target, starting at 1 stack of Necrotic Plague. In addition, each time Necrotic Plague deals damage it gains 1 stack.
(2) Each time your Lesser Ghouls duration expires, you’ll gain 1 additional stack of Necrotic Plague.
(3) For each stack of Necrotic Plague, both your Necrotic Plague, and Death Coil deals 0,3% increased damage, stacking for as many stack you can build up. At some point the Necrotic Plague’s duration will start to decay faster than the normal duration a Disease has. This is to make sure you have to re apply it, and start over again from time to time, this will also help making sure Necrotic Plague feels like a power full Disease.
(4) Unholy Blight will also generate 1 stack of Necrotic Plague each time it deals damage to the enemy target, this effect only generate 1 stack of Necrotic Plague, regardless how many are effected by Unholy Blight. This is to limit it from making it shoot up to 1000 stacks, as that can be a bit to crazy if it worked that way.

  1. The next passive Unholy Death Knight could have in it’s talent tree, could revolve around our melee attack’s, and how it can have additional effect’s added to it. The name of this passive could be called Blighted Rune Weapon. Here is an example how it will work.

(1) When Blighted Rune Weapon is talented, you gain a 15 yard range to your melee attacks.
(2) Your melee attacks deal shadow damage, and also deals AOE damage around the primary target, when you hit with your melee attacks.
(3) Each time you strike the enemy with your melee attacks, you have a 10% chance to raise a Lesser Ghoul. In addition, you also extend the duration of all your Diseases, and Minions by 0,5 seconds, when the effect is triggered.
(4) If Rune of the Apocalypse is enchanted on the weapon, it will always add 3 random debuffs to the enemy target, up from 1.

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I was about to start a thread on the forum, but a friend beat me to it.
I support many of the suggestions above, but not all.
Here are my suggestions:

  • No necromancer pet, e.g., Kel’Thuzad
  • No undead nerubian pet, e.g., Anub’arak / maybe as a swap option for a main pet and for DT with Unholy Blight mechanics, spikes from the ground? etc.?
  • No changes for Gargoyle, and pls remove runic power mechanic…
  • Raise Abomination is still too slow in PVE
  • Festering Strike should have its icon changed after selecting the Festering Scythe talent
  • the basic Festering Strike icon should be changed / it has negative connotations xD
  • the lack of Soul Reaper talent is still a huge blow.
    NOTE - Soul Reaper can still replace Outbreak and become a primary execution ability, for example, below 35% health and instantly inflicting a disease that deals damage per second for 8-10 seconds. You can make this talent optional in the tree if you think it’s too overwhelming for most players. PS. I hate Outbreak talent.
  • Unfortunately, we once again have few dual talents to choose from in a single node
  • what about DnD?
  • When will all our pets get their appearance changes? Especially Gargo, Army, and our main pet?
  • Could the All Will Serve talent summon a Nerubian spider instead of a skeleton?
  • Darion Mograine should stop using DnD already…instead he should do something amazing - after all, he should be the strongest of the Horsemen…
  • Reanimation talent - change it, and just give us Kel’Thuzad.
  • Putrefy - it’s cosmetic but it’s a terrible name, find a better one, I know you can.
  • Army of the Dead - it should be in a different place, better and faster available.
  • Harbringer of Doom - make it also cause Death Coil to hit two targets.
  • Control Undead ? Dead talent
  • Grip of the Dead ? Dead talent
  • you can add the Wandering Plague talent - which will passively summon a lesser ghoul from time to time

where and when will we get the raid buff?

The idea of ​​an improved Army is cool, but I would see it differently, namely:
Raise Abo - whether all ghouls (including Army and those with Festering Strike) should attack with Cleav or teach all pets skills from Rune of the Apocalypse.
Gargo - teaches all maguses to cast an additional disease, e.g. Necrotic Strike etc.

The right side seems to have more talents to choose from, as I mentioned, add more talents and create a symmetrical tree and add more choice in a single node

RAID BUFF ? WHEN?

2 Likes

I’m gonna keep updating my post as time goes on, i hope more will post here and give their feedback while also liking the post if they agrees with some of the things being suggested here. This will hopefully catch Blizzards attention before Midnight goes live. I really think Unholy is close to be the best reworked spec, but it needs more options in the talent tree, and some bad passives and effects need to be replace for something more engaging, things like Ancient Runes is just Festermight, this type of passives eats away the potential for Unholy to have interesting things in the talent tree when you have a strength scaler which scales all the way up to 40% strength. That’s just an unhealthy amount of primary stat from one passive, and Blizzard should avoid designing passives like that in general.

1 Like

I completely agree with the above. I never liked Festermight. It completely ruined the balance of our class.

I have reservations about a few of the Talents - on paper they sound great but in reality they may be inefficient = useless = not working.

Rapid Variant - When an enemy afflicted by your Dread Plague dies, it erupts, dealing (150% of Attack Power) Shadow damage to nearby enemies and infects the enemy with the lowest health remaining with your plagues. Deals reduced damage beyond 5 targets.

The concept is great, but the execution is poor.
DK will always want to apply Dread Plague to the strongest target in the group, the enemy who will usually live the longest, so in real combat this effect won’t occur unless we deliberately decide to apply a new disease to a target who is about to die, which contradicts the new concept and playstyle.
This talent requires changing the death condition of the target affected by the disease to targets nearby. This means that when another target nearby dies, Dread Plague will detonate and deal additional AoE damage.

Blightburst - The eruption effect of Putrefy consumes 6.0 sec from your plagues on all enemies hit, dealing 100% of the damage they would deal over that time instantly.

It sounds good, but in practice, it can be annoying if it requires reapplying the disease to the target. Besides, it’s very reminiscent of Infliction of Sorrow – and I don’t want the same mechanic again.
I absolutely dislike the concept of eating the disease… and then having Outbreak reapply it.
Can’t it just deal extra damage, meaning it works like it does now but without removing diseases?

Putrefy
I also lack some talent that would make me be able to reset the cd for Putrefy. For example, after hitting 5 targets, it gains 1 charge

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I’m going to post this on the general forum as well, sins we can’t post this on Alpha forum. Not many here is interested to share their opinion on what they think Unholy could have added to it’s design for Midnight.

I hope when the Beta forum is up we will have more players sending feedback, although Blizzard will ignore it regardless :sweat_smile:

2 Likes

I certainly consider the recent changes a step forward. I like them. I’m glad you implemented the changes I suggested, namely the return of Soul Reaper, the redesign of Blightburst, and the introduction of a change cd reduction option for Putrefy.

However, there are still many things that need to be changed or offered in the form of new talents, which should be in a specific choice node. Let me remind you again that I would like the talent tree to be symmetrical, i.e. to have the same number of talents and connection options between talents on both sides.

Here are some new/old ideas:

  1. Soul Reaper - has very low damage.
  2. Soul Reaper (choice node) - Replaces Outbreak and also applies diseases. 30 yd range.
  3. Soul Reaper (choice node) - Summons 2 Lesser Ghouls, and if the target’s health is below 35%, summons 2 Vile Spirits.
    Note - Why is that? Because Outbreak and Festering Strike are still talents on the bar that we rarely use. I feel like it clutters the skill bar.
  4. Soul Reaper (choice node) - Deals additional damage equal to the amount of damage your diseases did in the last 8 seconds against 5 enemies.
  5. Ancient Runes - wtf? nonono
  6. Unholy Aura - wtf? nononono
  7. Festering Corruption - wtf? nononono
  8. Superstrain - wtf? meme talent.
  9. Reanimation ? - this is a talent at the very bottom but it sounds very weak… give us a one big Lich instead of little many Magus…

There are still many things you can do this way

PS.
I strongly recommend following the talent tree from Frost DK.
The talent placement and design, the way talents are distributed, the lines, and the overall tree design, are truly excellent.
I think the tree design itself helps with talent placement, and thus with designing the spec, lending it a sense of imagination and diversity of development.
3 talents at the very end (for Unholy) is bad tree and spec design. There should be 4 paths to choose from.

Take the talent tree from Frost DK and apply the talents from Unholy to that tree.**

PS2.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2665190-Midnight-Alpha-Datamining-Build-63967-Spell-Changes

This is very interesting. Will this be implemented in future updates?

Unleash Plague (New) When Scourge Strike damages an enemy affected by Festering Scythe, it has a chance to upgrade your Outbreak to Unleash Plague. Unleash Plague Consume 8 sec from each of your plagues around you and deal 100% of the damage instantly.

Following up with a couple of takes from the Week 3 and Week 4 changes. Overall, I’m fairly happy with how unholy is developing but I have a few smaller issues, and then currently 2 big ones that are standing out that I’ don’t see most people addressing / talking about. Army of the Dead’s position in the tree is a little poorly placed as even though it is a “minion” ability, it ties directly into our apex talent which while not leaning into any particular fantasy itself; utilizes Army to trigger it and so can make pathing a little awkward for disease builds.

I’m currently running into 2 other major issues with the Phase 3 unholy changes; one being tied to a main thematic issue with the new Soul Reaper, and the other a possible point of confusion in the San’ayn hero talent tree.

First, San’layn.

Blood Soaked Ground on the San’layn tree currently incentivizes unholy to continue using Death and Decay due to the increased chance to gain vampiric strike within it. While D&D has been woven out of our regular rotation (fantastic change!), this talent not being changed to match the new rotation causes an issue. It’s not entirely apparent to someone who might not know, or looks up a guide whether or not they should be using Death and Decay regularly, in single target, in AoE, or on cooldown just to trigger the effects of Blood-soaked ground and gain more vampiric strikes rotationally. IF the intention is that Death and Decay is to continue to be used regularly for San’layn, that presents another issue, as we would have 5 regular rune spenders for our rotation (Festering strike, scourge strike, putrefy, DnD and the new Soul Reaper), and 2 runic power spenders, creating a drastic rune-starved rotation and imbalance in gameplay.

If unintended, tying the Vampiric Strike chance increase (albeit at a lower amount) to the global 25% from the keystone node, something like 2-3%, would be a fix; while keeping the clear, shorter defensive use-case tied to DnD through the reduction to physical damage taken.

Second, the spec tree.

I would like to suggest a rebranding of Soul Reaper into Apocalypse, as its current iteration while making the rotation more fun, does not fit the theme of the new unholy tree cooked up in the Alpha. While old-school and tied to the roots of unholy, it stands out in the tree as it doesn’t lean into pets OR plagues. Functionally remaining the same, rebranding it and renaming it with Apocalypse’s tooltip and animation would do wonders for the spec fantasy and tie everything together, as this new Apoc need not be a button that’s inherently tied to minions, but much like the riders; also amp our disease damage! (While also giving a lot of unholy players a button they love, back as a rotational mainstay)

I’ve also included a slight addition / consideration to reaping, as in AoE currently it’s not inherently obvious when the “tipping point” is, where you would want to use Soul Reaper.

Apocalypse: (Formerly Soul Reaper)
1 Rune - Instant - 15 sec cooldown

Herald the beginning of the end times and bring doom upon your enemy with a powerful strike dealing (X% of attack power) Shadow damage and causing your foe to take 20% increased damage from your pets and diseases for 8 sec.

Only usable on enemies below 35% maximum health.

Reaping:
Scourge Strike, Festering Strike and Death Coil deal 30% additional damage to enemies below 35% health.

Putrefy resets Apocalypse (soul reaper)'s cooldown, allows it to be used on any target and cleave on to 3 nearby targets.

Alright, now for the Phase 4 changes. Nothing big here, but we did get to see our new 4pc bonus for season 1 and… well, I’m disappointed. The resource influx increase and a free cast of a low-cost ability that doesn’t amount to a ton of your damage by itself does not feel good; not to mention it puts a heavier focus on the current resource flooding that seems to be ongoing on Alpha; making things feel a little unintuitive. Even making Festering Strike free rather than Scourge Strike might feel better, but that’s still not a very good avenue as it doesn’t do much for our resource management (or lack-thereof) / flooding.

Additionally, Reaping was nerfed to only give Soul Reaper 25% of the time, instead of always; and I think this is a change that does not feel great overall. If this were upped back to 100; or if the intent is to keep it more sparse, lowered to 50 rather than 25%, it might feel a bit better for uptime in execute.

Having said all that, most of these changes are not terrible, and in fact quite welcome. I think the added layer of the new soul reaper is a nice change, if a bit thematically off than the 2 polar points of the tree after the refocusing with this redesign. I want to see more iterations and plays on Putrefy and these new talents in general. Thematically we are close to golden, now we just need to iron out some kinks and some of the more uninspired talents in the tree and I think we’re looking at a pretty good new era of undead mayhem.

2 Likes

Soul Reaper in its current form is better than before. However, I still believe Soul Reaper could be expanded with additional skills, which I suggested.

If Apocalypse returns, it would be in a different form than before, and certainly not as a replacement for Soul Reaper. These are two completely different skills.

I personally suggested adding the Apocalypse talent (renamed from Rune of the Apocalypse, which was never chosen as a weapon enchant and likely never will be) as a raid buff—which is essentially a debuff applied by the player.

However, for Unholy, the debuff effect should be stronger, e.g., by 100%.

Of course, this is a suggestion for a raid buff, but it could also be the culmination of a talent tree, e.g.,
Apocalypse—your all pet attacks have a chance to apply one of the following debuffs to the target:
Death: 6% Healing Reduction,
War: 6% Increases damage taken from the Death Knight,
Famine: 6% Reduces damage dealt to the Death Knight,
Pestilence: 6% Slows the target and deals damage over time.
Using Army of the Dead increases all of these effects by 100%.

or
perhaps Apocalypse should replace Putrefy in the name and icon?

I agree that Army should be in a completely different place.
I’ve been writing about this since the TWW beta… and to no avail.

It should be in the place (for the current alpha ver) where the choice node with the Plague Mastery and Grave Mastery talents is, while Dark Transformation should be in Putrefy place, and Putrefy talent should be in DT place.

In my opinion, the Reanimation talent could be removed and replaced.
I’d envision a Lich pet (or as CD or passive option) in this spot—for example, one that would permanently change our main pet to a Lich, and the DT would upgrade/buff the Lich (just like the main pet does now).

I’m really liking the direction UH on Alpha is moving. But, why have they not baked in Menacing Magus to Reanimation yet. Right now they nerfed the Maguses down to 8 second duration from 15, this cap stone talent has ended up feeling weaker as a result of it. Now would be a good opportunity to just bake those together so it feels like a powerfull choice.

Also like i posted at my first post, adding Raise Sludge Belcher would be such a smart move to add in Menacing Magus location.

2 Likes

This is the Capstone (Reanimation) that should never have been.

Talent Reanimation is nothing else than the current Doomed Binding…

SO

Doomed Bidding is currently better than in the new expansion…it’s blatant cheating.

Menacing Magus should actually be a passive ability for Magus.

If we already have a talent that teaches our Magus to attack AoE, I still don’t understand why, since the Legion expansion, our basic ghouls can’t learn **Infected Claws (**this should deal AoE dmg…which should also attack AoE.

I’ll leave aside this lack of logic, because I believe all basic pets should passively be able to attack AoE.

Such a talent should only exist for, for example, a unique unit like a Gargoyle, which, after selecting an additional talent, can cast its attacks and hit, for example, 5 enemies…

Our CD skills are still in a bad spot, especially Army of the Dead. Our tree should have received a new build and different combinations long ago. We still have three Capstone talents instead of four.

Clawing Shadow talent should always hit 4 or 5 targets AND it’s currently 100% shadow damage, not physical or magical damage as in Midnight…

Rapid Variant - still nothing has been done about it, although the mechanics of how this skill works in combat will be frustrating.

After the latest changes, the depth of San’layn has been destroyed, and the only thing we’re offered is an increase in the duration of diseases in San’layn and, ironically, in Raider of the Apocalypse… REALLY?
HOW MANY MORE DISEASE-EXTENDING TALENTS WILL WE GET?

You destroyed Blood Beast, which currently deals ridiculous low damage, and now you’ve destroyed Infliction of Sorrow, which even now ALSO deals ridiculous low damage (Overall).
Many other classes deal massive damage with their HERO talents, as seen in overall dmg.
Vapiric Strike is an exception because it’s a talent that replaces Scourge Strike, so after taking into account the damage from Scoruge Strike, it would appear that Vampiric Strike itself isn’t as powerful as other HERO classes’ abilities.

Our HERO talents are already ridiculously weak/average, and you decided to weaken them even further…

AND…

Reanimation ? - delete it immediately

Superstrain ? - delete it immediately

Ancient Runes ? - delete it immediately

Unholy Aura ? - delete it immediately

Ghoulish Frenzy ? - delete it immediately

Control Undead ? - delete it immediately

Grip of the Dead ? - delete it immediately

Blood-Soaked Ground (San’layn) ? - delete it immediately

Visceral Strenght (San’layn) ? - delete it immediately

Sanguin Scent (San’layn) ? - delete it immediately

Mawsworm Menance (Raider) ? - delete it immediately

Mograine’s Might (Raider) ? -delete it immediately

THE LATEST ALPHA VERSION - SOUNDS LIKE THIS:

Infliction of Sorrow - When Vampiric Strike damages an enemy affected by your plagues, it extends the duration of the plagues by 1.5 sec

Unending Misery - Infliction of Sorrow extends the duration of your disease by an additional 1.5 sec on your main target.

WTF?

Pestilence ? - This needs a change now. This can’t be an RNG talent (or it can remain RNG but still needs changes)…especially for Outbreak…what am I supposed to do if I get an upgraded Outberak and the fight is over?
My entire talent tree will be pointless because the fight is over and I’ve received a proc…

Suggestions:

  1. Pestilence doesn’t need to consume diseases. Simply make Outbreak transform into Pestilence and, upon applying/refreshing/re-hitting, immediately deal 50% more damage with all plagues.
  2. Scourge Strike causes Pestilence….or should Death Coil and Epidemic?

Or a complete overhaul of the mechanics:

It remains the same, but Scourge Strike has a chance to upgrades your Epidemic and Death Coil (like into upgraded versions from Forbidden Knowledge). Necrotic Coil and Graveyard trigger Pestilence. Pestilence deals 30% of all plague damage over 3 seconds. In other words, Pestlience becomes another DoT. BIG DoT.

Soul Reaper ? - Immediately increase the damage of this skill AND extend the buff’s duration to 10-12 seconds, preferably 15 seconds.
You can immediately remove other 5s or 8s buffs or debuffs throughout the entire skill tree.*
We don’t need such short buffs/debuffs - it doesn’t work for this specialization.
MINIMUM: 10 seconds.*

Summong Gargoyle ? - Will we finally see some changes to the mechanics of this ability?
Spending runic power is incredibly boring.
Gargoyle should have a strong basic hit and, for example, increase the character’s Mastery or Crit by 10% or 15% or 20%…

2 Likes

The new update to Unholy seems quite good, but some hiccups are still there. As for our Skulker bro, it’s finally effected by Commander of the Dead. About got damn time.

I also like how we empower our primary Ghoul even further for each lesser Ghoul we Putrefy, really nice change here, makes him alot more scary for any enemy targets. Now if only Blizzard would remove Menacing Magus, and add Raise Sludge Belcher in it’s spot, then we would be golden.

Gonna add some deep dive as to why i think now more than before it should be implemented in the talent tree.

Raise Sludge Belcher had some skills that improved things for UH, here is how it would impact us now with the talent rework.

  1. Spell attacks always cleaves, and AOE while Dark Transformation is active.
  2. Defensive CD no longer stops the pet from attacking, while in Dark Transformation, it reduces damage taken by 60%.
  3. Pet stun now last for 2 seconds, up from 1 second, while in Dark Transformation it stuns for 3 seconds.
  4. You gain a Physical Death Grip from the pet, which if target is immune, it will grapple itself to the enemy instead.
  5. With the new infected Claw applying a Disease to the enemy, this will then help us keep adding this Disease in cleave and AOE scenarios.
  6. We have Rune of the Apocalypse, why not also make it so the Sludge Belcher applies 2 individual stacks to the enemy to increase the consistency of this rune weapon enchant. Also again, if it cleaves, it will apply it to multiple targets, once again a win win if added to the talent tree.
  7. Plus, if it also gains a bit more damage, and health, it also helps it set it apart from our pet Ghoul.

This are some really good things it offered which we have lost, i think this would be an great addition to our talent option in the talent tree. Some things they can add to it as well to make it a little more interesting is, each time you consume a Sudden Doom proc, it will generate a charge which lets you raise a Lesser Ghoul. When you press Soul Reaper, it will also get commanded to deal it’s pet attack, but now it raises a Lesser Ghoul instead.

Now, for the not so good changes in the new update.

Unholy Aura no longer grants us haste from Putrefy. Now this is a really bad change. Now Unholy Aura is just a Mastery scaling tool from our Maguses, this is boring, and has made this 2 point talent feel extremely bad. Of course it had to be changed a bit from it’s current function, but, i think Blizzard should made it a 1%-2% haste for each talent point spent, after you Putrefied we gain an certain amount of haste for each Putrefy. Multiple applications may overlap.

As for Ancient Runes got renamed to Ancient Power, still the same, but you gain stacks from Runic Power spending abilities, instead of runes. Like common Blizzard, we don’t need this unnecessary multi strength scaling passive, it really cannibalizes our dps for just existing as a passive with the way it scales our strength up. i’d just remove it, and then move Unholy Aura to it’s location, then move Reanimation to Unholy Auras location, and then make it to a 2 talent point nod where you also gain Menacing Magus as an effect, if you put the second talent point in to Reanimation, and with it also giving you a 50%-100% chance to raise a Magus. As for what to add in Reanimation’s location. I still stand on that Gargoyle should be changed from a por mans Breath of Sindragosa, the Runic Power draining one. Not the new we have right now. Gargoyle should be relocated to Reanimation’s location.

Just make Summon Gargoyle summon 3 Gargoyles when Army is cast, they will increase both Disease and Minion critical strike and critical damage for each attack they does, stacking for as much you can get out of them for the next 30 seconds. I would love it more if we had a legit Tyrant minion of our own, Abom is more of a greater undead minion than a type of tyrant minion which empowers more of our toolkit.

But overall i like that Blizzard is really trying to change Unholy on Alpha, they are making it more fun for each update they are releasing, but Blizzard. PLS, stop showing Festermight/Ancient Runes/Ancient Power down our throat, it’s not a fun passive to play around.

Also pls make our Apex talent more interesting, the Death Coil part is really boring, and i would rather have a Lich attached to it instead. Just make the Death Coil effect to a new talent passive we can talent in to the talent tree, it is cool as a talent, but not as a [APEX TALENT].

Here are some suggestions you can do with the Lich.

  1. When Army is cast, you will raise a Lich to fight alongside you for 15 seconds.
  2. While the Lich is active, it morphs Dread Plague in to Necrotic Plague.
  3. Necrotic Plague will gain stacks, increasing the damage for each time you raise or Putrefy a Lesser Ghoul.
  4. Army of the Dead’s Lesser Ghouls are empowered while the Lich is active. The Army of the Dead Lesser Ghoul’s attack, and movement speed is increased by 50%.
  5. The Lich buffs the Death Knight with Shadowfrost Armor, this reduces the damage the DK take by 5% while also increasing the damage as well.
  6. Lich cast Deathchill Bolt at the enemy target, Deathchill Bolt slows the target by 60%, and increases the damage the enemy take by 1%, stacking up for as many stacks you can build on the target. In addition, when Reanimation is talented in to it’s second talent point, the Lich will also cleave with it’s Deathchill Bolt.
  7. The Lich will drop a Shadow Fissure underneath the enemy target, after 1 second, it will explode for high amount of damage. In addition, if the target is infected with Necrotic Plague, it will build 5 stacks on the enemy target, it has a 8 second CD.
3 Likes

Great, really great suggestions.

Besides that, I still want changes to the Pestilence talent and the San’layn tree, as well as the removal of many of the talents I mentioned earlier in the post.
This update is just cosmetic to me, not a real change.

Besides that, we didn’t get the RAID BUFF or new skill animations or DK customization…OR a new design and appearance of the specialization tree.Our talent tree isn’t changing much in any significant way; only talents are swapped, there are no new paths, and no new creative builds are being created. We’re locked into two scenarios: disease or pets.

For example, Frost DK can build around Obliteration, Sindragosa, or Frostbane. He has 4 capstone talents, while Unholy only has 3

PS. Unholy Devotion - only 5 seconds? Really? At least give it 8 seconds.

2 Likes

Here is a summary of what i have posted on the Beta Forum, i did make a post dedicated for Unholy Death Knight’s, but i also posted on the one where we have Blizzard who made a Blue post for Death Knight’s in general. PLS all take a look, and try to be vocal about making Blizzard change some of our still lingering issues we have in the talent tree.

With the rework to Unholy Death Knight, we can finally play out as a master of undead and diseases, but, i can see that we still have some bad passives in the talent tree, i think this needs to be changed, and some talents needs to be relocated.

  1. Menacing Magus. This passive is still in the talent tree, this should just be baked in to our Reanimation, it feels bad taking a passive that strictly is AOE and does not provide any dps upgrade on single target, i would rather see the return of Raise Sludge Belcher in this location.

Raise Sludge Belcher had some skills that improved things for UH, here is how it would impact us now with the talent rework.

(1) Spell attacks always cleaves, and AOE while Dark Transformation is active.
(2) Defensive CD no longer stops the pet from attacking, while in Dark Transformation, it reduces damage taken by 60%.
(3) Pet stun now last for 2 seconds, up from 1 second, while in Dark Transformation it stuns for 3 seconds.
(4) You gain a Physical Death Grip from the pet, which if target is immune, it will grapple itself to the enemy instead.
(5) With the new infected Claw applying a Disease to the enemy, this will then help us keep adding this Disease in cleave and AOE scenarios.
(6) We have Rune of the Apocalypse, why not also make it so the Sludge Belcher applies 2 individual stacks to the enemy to increase the consistency of this rune weapon enchant. Also again, if it cleaves, it will apply it to multiple targets, once again a win win if added to the talent tree.
(7) Plus, if it also gains a bit more damage, and health, it also helps it set it apart from our Pet Ghoul.

This are some really good things it offered which we have lost, i think this would be an great addition to our talent option in the talent tree. Some things they can add to it as well to make it a little more interesting is, each time you consume a Sudden Doom proc, it will generate a charge which lets you raise a Lesser Ghoul. When you press Soul Reaper, it will also get commanded to deal it’s pet attack, but now it raises a Lesser Ghoul instead.

With all the undead we raise on Alpha, i think it would be cool to bring back Ruptured Viscera. This used to detonate our Ghouls when their duration expired, it had a chance to generate Festering Wounds, they could just tweak this passive a bit and make it more interactive.

  1. Ruptured Viscera cost 2 talent points, and it should be located after you have talented in to Raise Sludge Belcher, which you can after you have talented in to Ruptured Viscera, you can then talent in to Army of the Dead.

(1) Each time a Lesser Ghoul explode, they have a chance to make your next Scourge Strike to raise an additional Lesser Ghoul alongside Festering Strikes effect. So 2 Lesser Ghouls, instead of 1.
(2) When 1 Lesser Ghoul gets Putrefy, Ruptured Viscera’s Corpse Explosion effect has a chance to chain of to another Lesser Ghoul, causing it to enter a state of Unholy Frenzy increasing it’s attack speed and duration for the same amount, from the effect of Putrefy. This can only chain of once per Lesser Ghoul.
(3) Each time a Leser Ghoul’s duration expires and it detonate, reduce the CD of Putrefy by 1-2 seconds.

Unholy Aura no longer grants us haste from Putrefy. Now this is a really bad change. Now Unholy Aura is just a Mastery scaling tool from our Magus of the Dead, this is boring, and has made this 2 point talent feel extremely bad. Of course it had to be changed a bit from it’s current function, but, i think Blizzard should made it a 1%-2% haste for each Lesser Ghoul you have active.

  1. Ancient Runes got renamed to Ancient Power, still the same, but you gain stacks from Runic Power spending abilities, instead of runes. Like common Blizzard, we don’t need this unnecessary multi strength scaling passive, it really cannibalizes our dps for just existing as a passive with the way it scales our strength up. i’d just remove it, and then move Unholy Aura to it’s location, then move Reanimation to Unholy Auras location, and then make it to a 2 talent point nod where you also gain Menacing Magus as an effect, if you put the second talent point in to Reanimation, and with it also giving you a 50%-100% chance to raise a Magus. As for what to add in Reanimation’s location.

I still stand on that Gargoyle should be changed from a por mans Breath of Sindragosa, the Runic Power draining one. Not the new Breath of Sindragosa we have right now. Gargoyle should be relocated to Reanimation’s location.

  1. Summon Gargoyle . Summon 3 Gargoyles, to attack the enemy target, if they did it this way, they could add in an effect that for each attack they do, they will increase both Critical Strike , and Critical damage by 0,3% to Disease, and undead minions, for each attack they do to the enemy target, and stacking as high as all the attacks they can do in a span of 30 seconds. This is a buff on the Death Knight , and not a debuff on the enemy. In additon, Summon Gargoyle also has a chance to raise Lesser Ghouls.

Ghoulish Frenzy is an incredibly boring passive, which is a discount Unholy Devotion/Transfusion buff. My suggestion is to relocate All Will Serve in this spot, and add a new follow up passive where the Skulker is located.

  1. Where the All Will Serve was located, i would love to see a passive that makes Dark Transformation work with the Skulker as well. Here are what i think it should do. Dark Transformation now has a 1,5 minute CD, and last for 20 seconds up from 12 seconds. The All Will Serve Skulker will be transformed to a Bone Lord. The Bone Lord has several skills it uses during Dark Transformation.

(1) When Dark Transformation is cast, it uses Bone Storm , charging in to the focused enemy target to deal damage, Bone Storm last for 4 seconds and can be extended by Death Coil.
(2) When Bone Storms duration expires, the Bone Lord will use Bone Cleave , to cleave the enemy target.
(3) For each time the Bone Lord deals damage, it has a chance to raise a Lesser Ghoul , when Sudden Doom is used to trigger Bone Cleave/Bone Storm , it will also have a chance to raise a Lesser Ghoul but at the half of it’s chance, something like, if it had 30%, then it would be a 15% chance when it’s at it’s reduced effectiveness.

  1. Our Apex talent needs to be made more interesting, the Death Coil part of it is really boring, and i would rather have a Lich attached to it instead. Just make the Death Coil effect to a new talent passive we can talent in to the talent tree, it is cool as a talent, but not as a [APEX TALENT]. In my opinion, locating it after you have talented in to Reaping as a new talent gate between Unholy Aura and Reanimation, that would be a smart move, just make it a 2 talent point nod just like those 2 passives.

What they can do with Necrotic Bolt and Graveyard should be something along the lines of.

(1) each time Necrotic Bolt is cast, you have a chance to cause Dread Plague/Necrotic Plague to cause Dread/Necrotic Eruption, causing your Disease to flare up, and to deal splash damage around the enemy target.
(2) Same case for Graveyard, but in this case this will work with Virulent Plague, making this Disease to cause Virulent Eruption instead, this will deal higher amount of damage for each enemy hit.

Now, as for the Lich, i think having a powerfull Lich minion which does a lot of things to our spec and rotation is a great thing, this would also feel exhilarating when you have a powerfull minion doing unique things to set it apart from things such as Abomination, and Summon Gargoyle.

  1. here are some examples i think a Lich could do to shape our Unholy’s Apex Talent over what we currently have on Beta.

(1) When Army of the Dead is cast, you will raise a Lich to fight alongside you for 15 seconds.
(2) While the Lich is active, it morphs Dread Plague in to Necrotic Plague.
(3) Necrotic Plague will gain stacks, increasing the damage, for each time you raise or Putrefy a Lesser Ghoul.
(4) Army of the Dead’s Lesser Ghouls are empowered while the Lich is active. The Army of the Dead Lesser Ghoul’s melee attacks, and movement speed, is increased by 50%.
(5) The Lich buffs the Death Knight with Deathfrost Armor. Deathfrost Armor reduces the damage the Death Knight takes by 5%, while also increasing the damage done as well.
(6) Lich cast Deathchill Bolt at the enemy target, Deathchill Bolt slows the target for 60% movement speed, and Deathchill Bolt increases the damage the enemy take by 1%, stacking up for a certain amount of stacks on the target. In addition, when Reanimation is talented in to it’s second talent point, the Lich will also cleave with it’s Deathchill Bolt.
(7) The Lich will drop a Shadow Fissure underneath the enemy target, after 1 second, it will explode for high amount of damage. In addition, if the target is infected with Necrotic Plague, it will build 5 stacks on the enemy target, it has a 8 second CD.

I did copy this post from my Unholy Beta Feedback thread. I hope your team at Blizzard might take this suggestions in to consideration. I do think with this changes, it could shape Unholy to have a strong identity in both it’s necromancy, and master of plagues theme.