Feedback: Unpruning & Demon Hunter Class

Classes Demon Hunter
1

Hello fellow Demon Hunters!

As many of you already know class “unpruning” is made by Blizzard for Shadowlands. Additional, unique, fun and niche class abilities are returning.
Every class gets 3-5 new(old) abilities along with specialization specific change to enhance the class philosophy.

Class Changes

  • Immolation Aura for both specs (Havoc DHs talented into this since 8.0)
  • Ressource renamed to Fury for all specializations

Blizzards Statement

Demon Hunters were originally added in Legion, at a time when all characters were assigned a specialization at creation and Artifact weapons made each spec feel almost like its own class—and that’s reflected in the Demon Hunter’s design. Though there are a number of similarities between Havoc and Vengeance, we feel we can do more to create some common ground, such as sharing a single resource and certain abilities.

The "Number Of Similarities"

I created the following list of all abilities that are shared between both specializations:

  • Raid Buff
  • Offensive Purge
  • Kick
  • Imprison CC
  • Meta
  • Taunt
  • Spectral Sight
  • Throw Glaive (Range Pull)
  • Shattered Souls Passive
  • Demonic Wards Passive (different effects)
  • ( Glide)

I hope we can agree that Taunt, Imprison CC, Kick, Purge, Range Pull and Raid Buff are almost always a staple of a class (especially tank and dd classes) and other classes have shown it as proof (Shamans, Warriors, Mages, Monks).

Unique Abilities That Emphasize Class Fantasy

  • Spectral Sight
  • [Meta (works different)]
  • [Demonic Wards Passive (works different)]
  • [Shattered Souls Passive (works different)]

Depending on your argumentation whether you count in passives that work different or not you can see we somewhat lack class flavor and identitiy.

A few points I would basline for the spec would be

  • First Blood
    This talent was used since Legion and it won’t change. This enables a third button into our rotation to be used on single target. Without it we only press Chaos Strike to dump our ressources. Boring.
  • Demonic
    This talents was also played since the last two raids of Legion and it surely is a fun mechanic. Would be more fun if we could build up our meta with abilities ourselves instead of directly going into meta with Eyebeam.
  • Immolation Aura
    Well that just got baselined which is nice. Another button to press.
  • Sigil of Flames
    Bringing the Sigil of Flames to Havoc would mean another “Class Fantasy Ability”. Tune it so it only is good at like 4 targets+.

What I would like to see removed from Havoc

  • Desperate Instincts
    This talent is never used and will never be used. It can not compete with Netherwalk or Soul Rending and needs to be removed. The automatic activation of it makes it so bad.
  • Momentum & Fel Mastery
    Both talents heavily play around the Momentum build which is something nobody wants. Blizzard, you said for yourself that having movement abilities tied into damage rotation is bad class design. Don’t be lazy here.
3 Likes
2

I’m really disappointed with what they showed so far for SL for DH. It seems Havoc will be almost unchanged.

First of all, I find it unacceptable for a melee class to have nothing to slow down a healer with. Warrior has Hamstring, Paladins have their slow, Rogue has crippling, Monk has their slow/root. We’re the only class that doesn’t have a reliable slow.

I mean there’s Vengeful Retreat but it has like a 30% uptime and throws you away from the target.

2 Likes
3

Healers can dispel the paladin slow, and then you have nothing. I don’t think you can complain about it, specially when you do have a physical undispelable slow, you just take a stun instead. If your teammate is someone with a stun, you can easily take the slow instead due to diminishing returns on stun.

4

Is this joke? You literally have the best slow in the game, and it’s spammable.

5

Please keep it on topic

6

Well I really hope they change something with demonic. It’s basically a talent that you never have to change or worry about . I also would have liked them to say what talent is replacing immolation aura cause it better be something good . I mean aall other classes are getting cool new abilities and utilities . But we just get imo and a resource cap increase

7

I don’t see why they don’t make Demonic baseline for Havoc. It’s basically a unique gameplay style that fits into demon hunters so well, not only is it the bis talent on that row atm, but also the one with most fun playstyle. If we could see it become baseline, they can shift other talents and abilities, make new ones etc, to create an amazing combination of fun, yuge pump numbers and satisfaction.

Just my personal opinion, but I would love to see Demonic baseline, no matter how much it was played both in Legion and now, it still is pretty fun (for me at least)

1 Like
8

This is my opinion, its normal to disagree but in my opinion this would feel fun and immersive

I honestly dont know why are you all stuck at traditinal builder spender demonic (DB build, CS BD spending) or old nemesis build (you just pressed nem and hit felblade when it poped). Is that the new generation of players or something, dont make me think about mechanic or rotation? Let me just stare at details and watch where i am on meters?

pve wise:

  1. You dont have to worry about your mobility for soaking cause the original idea of spending felrush as a dmg ability is nerfed to a point of charge with a tickle dmg - 2 on 10 sec cd.
  2. slows? - vr - 20 sec cd also if you need that extra yardage to jump or soak
  3. soaking - netherwalking + 100% boost in speed
  4. 99.999999% of ppl using DA which pretty much covers self healing and sustain

all of the above gives us pretty much idiotic play style where, unless youre raiding lfr you dont have to THINK about anything.

“Will i have enough movement to move out of the incoming swirly - lol what a stupid question. Oh im “snared” yah look at those poor dks and paladins. Theres a big comet falling from sky that will wipe the raid - dh youre soaking - but but noo that would mean i will not spam CS…RL thats like 1 BD with 2x CS - there goes my parse you dufus…etc”

and now the rotation - warr, paladin, shaman, boomie, monk, lock, spriest, arcane mage - so many classes to play that has builder spender mechanic. Dhs arent suppose to be stand still - move only to a) mechanic b) stupid RL making me lose uptime on boss or c) pick up souls

  1. make fel blade baseline,

  2. made demon blades baseline (no dmg, chance to reset felrush, 100% chance on building fury),

  3. make momentum baseline (so we actually dashing around battlefield), remove demonic in general cause - “inner struggle” riiiight, seems more acceptance than inner struggle since we are demons every 22 secs, wheres the “inner struggle” there, meta every 4 min actually plays into that “inner struggle” philosophy. If you leave demonic, than give us more races to pick from, cause youre throwing the lore in the trash with that, Illidan is only one and we are not Illidans we are Illidari - not even close in power.

4, make VR reset felrush.

  1. felrush doesnt do dmg anymore it just generates fury,

  2. throw glaive doesnt have a cd but if you throw 2 glaives in succesion they go into foti mode for 5 sec and we VR and go in the air 30 y away from the boss and have access to fel lance for the 5 sec

  3. meta has to have a downside. Something like spriests Surrender to Madness but not that extreme. Like after being in demon form you lose 25% haste and stamina and your movement speed is slowed by x amount. Since you know inner struggle and all that lore crap.

this would again make you be aware of where you stand and where you jump. So if theres a fight with a debuff and you know that debuff is coming every min, you cant go: “oh nvm i have vr, 2x rush and netherwalk who the hell cares” … youd have to pool your movement…which will also make you lose dps cause you’d lose fury generators to get away.

oh right this would make you lose details position…ufff damn that details, oh but think about m+…damn those ledges and who put that pack of mobs right when i jumped back without looking what the hell is behind me etc etc. Ye this will never go through.

Anywho, no hard feeling, cheerz all

2 Likes
9

Oh my god, please, Blizzard, do not listen to him.

Having movement abilities tie in the damage rotation is bad and it has been proven in Legion where the bad playstyle of Momentum had its peak in Emerald Nightmare. While on sims ahead people rarely played Momentum on most bosses because on Mythic and higher m+ keys you a) need your movement and b) are less vulerable to any ground effects because of fel rushing into a void zone.

Never. Ever. Make. Momentum. Viable. Nor. Baseline.

The most higher tier DHs agree with this .

Having a downtime on Meta is just, sorry, stupid design. Why punish a player using an ability? Surrender to Madness is a unique talent and makes void form, if played correctly, op op.

The Fel Lances would suck since you are locked into your animations flying downwards. Enjoy being killed by a spawned void zone when you land. This is why death from above got removed for pve.

I appreciate your input and your effort, though!

10

Yes please Blizzard listen to me cause:

  1. meta makes us op op - from dmg to survivability, and you cant deny it, like in 90% of the cases you can stand in fire and shout at healers that you are a dh and that its actually a dps increase cause of overcapping on souls. ALSO its the lore, DHs eternal struggle against becoming a demon? And what draws you towards that - power - meta gives you power, yes no maybe? - I say it gives you a ton of power and wants you to be demon as much as you can which kinda negates the lifelong struggle AGAINST becoming ONE. Also combine meta either cd or after eyebeam with blur thats on 1 min cd…thats op op op and might i add op. SO if you gonna use something that you struggle against your whole life and training, using that should make you op op but should also give you penalty since youd be exhausted after. Try sprinting, but really sprinting for 30 sec, and than go running a marathon - dhs are like that now, they can sprint and than do a marathon and if “the race” is long enough sprint some more. Recklessness was a great design

  2. Fel Lance locks you in animation - exactly that - you will have to know the fight so you know WHEN TO USE it - NOT use it cause its OFF CD

  3. …“a) need your movement and b) are less vulerable to any ground effects because of fel rushing into a void zone.”… NOONEs taking your movement, i even suggest to give back 1 more felrush through vr - BUT AT A DPS COST - oh damn heres the issue - you actually have to sacrifice dmg for ton of mobility.

Nah hmmm yes sure better do this - Give demonic baseline and implement nemesis with demonic and make demonic last 30 sec on a 20 sec cd also it increases agi and sta by 500% and haste by 500% and crit by, eh we wont be greedy here so lets say cit by 499% and versa and mastery for 498%, give me 2x felrushes, 1x vrs, blurr on 1 min, imunity on 2 min, darkness on 3 min, self healing and oh no penalty please and also make all bosses be Patch and dont make me move please.

  1. Naowh played it before he turned Floorpov all the time in m+. Was awesome to watch on twitch

  2. Momentum was gutted at the start cause it was a new play style that people were unused to and everyone wanted to be good at DH fantasy, to dw glaives to be Illidan and when most of the players couldnt make momentum work cause yes if you jump off of a cliff you die, also if you jump with a debuff in the middle of your raid yes you wipe them, and also if you dont pool your movement you do get stuck - as dks they are stuck all the time…Blizzard gutted it - they made nemesis warr and then eb warr and we are playing EB Fury ever since. Right now DH is a slowed down Fury - its almost the same class just DH plays a bit slower and is suitable to ppl who didnt broke their fingers when they were 5 like most of the good fury warrs did.

  3. Fury DH glyph - since majority still wants the stand still, dont move, hit one button to build hit another to spend playstyle may I suggest that Blizzard implements a Fury DH glyph - Instead of 2x twohanders you get glaives, your eyes turn green and you get tattoos and your, whats the skill now, Enrage or something is renamed to Meta and you go demon whenever you Enrage. Also it removes Bloodthirst and gives rampage a chance to returns rage. To make it more simple it removes WW Rampage AoE interaction and makes WW Enrage you right away and rampage hits everything.

1 Like
11

toxic, I won’t reply any further to your weird rant. wtf. Your second half is a wall of stupid trash definitely not written by an adult wtf.

1 Like
12

I definitely agree that nobody should listen to the person above, clearly trolling so gets a report for that

13

its not trolling, its an opinion of a person whos playing dh since the start of legion. and im sad to see that idea of a fast paced, high movement based, playstyle is getting ditched in place of a mostly stationary traditional builder spender playstyle. But opinions are like - as…, everyone has one. You dont have to agree but you dont need to call my sarcasm trolling cause you dont agree with it

14

I sort of agree a movement-based ability or passive would be fun to add, but definitely NOT at the cost of removing Demonic entirely. Demonic baseline would be much better and fitting, you are trolling because you say “meta makes DH too op” and crap like that, which is pepega

15

I dont understand twitch talk, im not that young so dont know what pepega is, but to clarify, when i “speak” of Demonic im refering to Demonic playstyle in general. Stand still (as much as mechanics allow you to), try to “build” souls, wait for EB, go EB dump fury, ok move to dump some more fury by moving an inch and again stand still. Its boring, not the talent but the playstyle its promoting. Its the same if you go FB DB Demonic or DA IA Demonic or BF IA Demonic, youre always still and since youre always still - in opposite of momentum style where you dash half of the time - its gutting the idea of what DH should be, a fast and agile demon hunting machine and not a stand still, face tank (sarcasm), nothing to separate us from rest, class. The only thing left for us is glide and double jump. Most of the mechanics doesnt require one to fel rush every 10 sec. So having 2x felrushes and 1x VR just to dodge AoE that comes every 30 sec or more is honestly pointless, its eye candy. If the playstyle stays the same than i agree with having only 1 felrush - make it 15y longer and its the same thing.

About Meta - you dont have to agree with me but having meta up vs no meta is a world of difference, its like running through a jungle with only a Swiss knife and turning into a Hulk every 30 sec.

16

Are you seriously saying Throw Glaive ( talented, give up your stun ) is the best slow in the game?

17

Multi-target, instant, ranged, spammable, 50% slow, undispellable

18

It literally has a cooldown. What other melee class has slow on a cooldown?

What other melee class gives up a stun for slow?

19

It has two charges and can keep 100% uptime on slow, no cooldown. It is the best slow in the game.

20

This isn’t true, the cooldown is longer than the duration. Furthermore, you need to give up your stun for it. The low duration also means your damage slows down as you use GCDs for it more often.

Yeah it’s so good the top DHs in arena don’t use it. KAPPA.