Charge, shadow step etc. Slows etc … when in melee after being stopped, you do no damage with Sunfire spec
Oh i see. Shame. I hoped SF would scale nicely to lvl 40 and AP.
Strawman arguments have nothing to do with woke-ism. What a strange notion…
Strawman argument is simply you arguing against a point that I didnt make. E.g. I ask for feral to be VIABLE, and people accuse me of wanting cat form to be 1:1 equal to rogue or best DPS in the game. I never did, hence its a strawman argument. Dont make them if you dont like hearing the word.
It gets tiring arguing balance with people that clearly have very little, if any, serious PvP experience. But essentially what I tried to do, was illustrate how extremely limited a ferals toolbox is compared to a rogue. The fact that we can heal, root or cast spell damage does not matter, because they are useless in all content because the mana costs are way too high and you dont have CC to enable you to cast without interruptions/flat out dying while casting.
So what you are left with is cat form. Thats it. You will be in cat form 99% of the time in raids as feral, and by far most of the time in PvP. Bear is situationally useful, but it doesnt offer better survivability in most cases than a rogues toolkit, and again, mana cost of shapeshifting is so high, we have no tools to allow us to cast that the hybrid playatyle is a fantasy that is in fact useless. Hence the comparison between cat and rogue becomes all the more relevant, because the tools you are supposed to have are not actually there.
These issues are the same for enhancement and ret palas to a large degree. Hybrids were very bad in vanilla, and SOD has only given hybrids damage, nothing else. While giving pure classes, they already HAD functioning toolkits even more abilities(like shadowstep, warbringer, mage healing, meta warlock, melee hunter etc.)
I’d could talk about how ferals should use all their abilities to perform good, getting int on gear aswell because they are not rogues, but OP seems braindead and this is pointless
skill issue
And Bear tank is super good, am I right?
Please, give wild strikes to rogues. Take it away from me.
If thats what it takes for me to have anything resembling a real toolkit for PvP.
Feral, ret, enhance all the melee hybrids are an actual joke in SOD. So far down.
All our classes have been given is damage to not be a complete meme spec. And we still less dmg than everyone else.
Meanwhile classes that were already insane, and do more dmg than us, like rogues, mages, warlocks and warriors get shadowstep, healing, meta, ranged kidney, warbringer, tons of instant cast damage. What did ferals get? A dmg buff to be bottom tier dps. Nothing else. But hey, at least we buff the group and can combat res!!
Youre a moron. Hybrids need buffs, the balance is a joke.
Oh rly? you ask feral to be VIABLE and we are strawmanning by saying that they are alrdy because they are the only class with “passive” grp wf (in alliance the only in general) and br, leading to a safe spot in 10man raids. Ok.
I guess giving them smt like 5% (cause you asked for “smallest” buffs in a post above) but taking wf will be ok? Smt tells me deep inside (could it be the 19years of reading posts like this in the forum? who knows) that if smt like that happens ppl will still not be happy because they moved up to “mid” dps but then they lost their easy spot, and its a spot in 10mans instead of 40 where you can take w/e and still have spots. So, when i mention the spot for wf is not because i’m strawmanning, it’s because rpgs are not designed only around numbers but utility in general.
What you don’t get is that you ask for ferals to be VIABLE, while THEY ARE ALRDY VIABLE. The fact that every melee grp in raids need a feral is the proof of that viability.
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taking away wild strikes from feral - you wont get any raid spot, thats what other melee (expect hunter) get in p2
rets do nice burts damage, can dispell, can heal
shamans doing great in pvp, dmg buffed and maelstorm helps alot
lmao
what feral has in pvp - nobody took away ur stealth, heal, depoison, roots, stun in bear
they give you kick, resilience with Survival of the Fittest rune, immune to fear with berserk, 30%hp last stand with survival instincts
pretty good toolkit
I saw many ferals during all kinds of vanilla, they spend more time in bear rather than can and enjoy it
they do not gear str+agi only, but int too
and all I see how you want to perform better while not leaving ur UWU cat form
If you dont use other abilites, which you got enough, but just want to stay in cat because you are DEEPEEASS - play rogue
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Youre a noob. Clearly. Like all the other classic Andys in here you just dont know how to play, so any balance discussion is useless with people like you.
You realise if a feral wants SOTF, Skull Bash and Survival instincts, we do no damage, right? Nothing.
That literally costs you well over 50% of your damage to take.
Same story for enhance, the only thing keeping them remotely viable is way of earth rune.
Rets have no help with mobility, taking rebuke costs them a lot of damage and they do BAD DPS in raids and go oom.
Youre clueless, but its okay. Classic is perfect for you.
i see ferals constantly shapeshifting during combat multiple times. where do they get the mana?
lmao and you calling me noob
imagine taking wild strikes over sotf=resilience in pvp
like this 2 procs 150 dmg summary to be dodged will help you in pvp
Or taking savage roar over skull bash - the freaking kick allowing you to charge in cat aswell, because 30% dmg after spending CPs will help you not to die to chaos bolt you cant interrupt
or taking king of the jungle instead of freaking last stand in pvp
damn, you are really dense, its not about you are bad in pvp, just stupid human being
I leveled a feral in SoD, had more burst than my main rogue, then rejuv, back to cat, and was able to go mob to mob without almost any downtime. while on rogue I always had to sit down and eat.
fairy fire, is one strong ability against rogues, use it wisely and your team will have no rogue problems. even if he kills you, he can’t kill your whole team just because he can’t reset his toolkit.
druid is a support class, has nice buffs and auras for the whole team. if you want dps play rogue or melee hunter.
even rogues have their weaknesses (0 dispels/spell protectoin, like cloak of shadows, shadowstep is a dumb version of later expansions, has GCD so have to wait a second to use any ability after using it, gives no damage boost) and people hated me down to hell on this forum for mentioning it.
They dont. Unless u innervate you cant shapeshift more than 3-4 times into cat/bear, it costs around 430 mana iirc and I have ~1640 mana or so.
Also your video, Ill try to be nice here but you should really watch Perplexitys youtube and try to improve your skill as a rogue. You are very slow, you are not PvP specced and you are not using half of your abilities.
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The druid faerie fires, then runs into you and does 2-3 globals on you in cat form, before you even react. Just blind him as soon as he is in range and click the flag at the same time. He now either trinkets blind or u cap.
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If he trinkets, gouge him instantly. Wait for energy and mutilate twice. Kidney shot him. Once kidney shot is about to end, use evasion and keep spamming mutilate into him, use rupture if he stays in bear.
You cant lose this fight. Its not possible.
Between blind, gouge and kidney into evasion, the druid wouldve been able to hit you only for the 2 seconds that u did mutilates on him.
get int enchants and some gear maybe?
imagine staying in cat vs rogue
stop showing ur incompetence of class you are playing
stop using pve runes in pvp and complain
start using other form than cat
and the hardest part for you - use your brain
Imagine reading before typing. Those 2-3 globals is me explaining to him what he shouldve done in the YT clip he linked of some feral druid killing him 1v1. That guy stayed in cat in melee range for several globals, I never said you should do that.
Read - you imbecile.
Also, I do play SOFT most of the time.
But nobody plays SOTF+SB+SI, you do 0 damage if you do that and its literally pointless to play feral at that point. Unless you are just guarding a base solo in AB or flag carrying then youre just typing BS. Youre mad and bad, stop trying.
Also, INT gear+enchants(lmfao) with ZERO damage runes. Go make a feral and show me a YouTube vid of how that goes. You will do negative damage bro, youre so bad its insane.
Again, more imaginary stuff. Vanilla Druid is by far the worst class. Its not me saying it, none of the 4 specs are viable. The closest one is Bear, and even that sucked.
Thankfully SoD is not the same as Vanilla. Druids have viable options. But your arguments are bad tbh. PvE wise lets have a look, no one takes Bear, Resto is a solid healer for sure, oh and look, Feral + Boomie is in the bottom 5. So your argument for people complaining is what ? Again, I get you parsed 60 and got replaced by a Feral in Wotlk, but for the love of God, if you are gonna make an argument in SoD ? At least pretend to use logic and do some research.
No need to say anything. You accept that Rogues have “no aoe” yet fully ignore that Cat has zero AoE too. One makes complete sense to you, yet the other one does not.
Idk, lets see:
Stuns: Cheap Shot, Kidney Shot, Btwn the Eyes (Ranged Stun)
Slows: Poison, Waylay, Quick Draw (Range slow)
Incapacitate: Gauge, Sap, Blind (Poison).
Utility/Mobility: Sprint, Shadowstep, Shadowstrike, Vanish, Prep, Kick.
Defensives: Evasion, Vanish.
I probably forgot multiple. But many of these synergies with each other, resulting in a near infinite loop of power and possibilities.
Lets see Feral Cat:
Stuns: Pounce , Bash, Roots (Not a stun, but is a cc).
Slows: Insert Travolta gif.
Incapacitate: Travolta gif.
Utility/Mobility: Shift out of form, Hard casted Healing, Sprint that gets removed if you change form. Bear Charge (Maybe).
Defensives: Bear Fat.
And again, maybe I missed some on the Druid side too. But the clear pvp difference is very obvious. It does not matter that “You have heals lolol” you cant cast any during a fight.
Did Rogues get anything for PvE ? Yes, yes you did. You actually got 2 very powerful things. 1 is Shadowstep, mobility plays a big role in PvE, and being able to blink to the boss/target + get a mini sprint is actually massive.
And secondly you got Master of Sub, tho im sure for someone like you who has no idea how snapshotting works or why its good for poisons, this is probably a bad rune.
Heal and root when shapeshifting costs nearly 500 mana. And heal with what? A long åss healing touch or hots which are insanely weak in this world of one shots?
Root? How can I root anyone? And who would want to spend near 700 mana to be able to root?
running away EFC to let ur mates get him for example
leave combat with dash and heal dot damage, rogue will simply die
How are you going to run away from a rogue? He has permaslow, ranged kidney, two ranged slows, shadowstep and blind. It is not going to happen. Keep making up fantasy bs, like dotting up a rogue from 100-0 while in INT gear with full tank runes, then kiting him while he dies 
Lmfao, 10/10 troll this guy I swear.
If you dash he just quick draws and or throws poison knife. You are now running at 80% speed. If u shapeshift, dash is removed. Any other pro tips?
Before u say OMEGALUL cast abolish poison then go back to cat then dash, the rogue can just sprint and chase you, since u dont have a slow.
On the video there are only epic fails from 1 BG. I have good games as well, enemies that I destroy in 2 mutilates. The coin has 2 sides.
The point I am trying to make is the 5-minute cooldown on useful abilities that you use up in a single fight then I am useless for 5 minutes. 3 of 4 abilities if I do not count vanish which is countered by any other class.
What you said is true, I could be faster and use blind, but what then? I get cool down for 5 mins, and other things on CD as well. The sapped priest would just kill me and take the flag back that turns instantly blue because wasn’t taken long enough.
I don’t watch streamers, I want to play the game not watch others playing it 
I know I am not very good at PVP as rogue as I play it for the first time. However, there are lots of situations where I have all 5 cooldowns and can’t do anything.
WSGs last like 6-10 minutes, but there are lots of fights, what can I do with 5min CD (vanish, sprint, etc…)? while durid can be much more useful overall.
I have tried Subtlety for preparation so I can reset abilities, sap from stealth and remain in stealth. But that build gave me overall worse results in BGs because I lacked burst damage and crits, so my dmg output was even smaller (except single-use ambush, but then I can not cheapshot, and well-mutilate crits 400-600, can spam it multiple times, instead of 1x ambush 800).
I was losing duels, got deleted more often in BGs, was unable to fight lvl 45 npcs, got lesser KB and HK when I played assassination or subtlety rogue.
I went to ambush a mage as sub: ambush miss, mutilate miss, kidney parry… I was like WTF why am I not recording this?
So I built myself these hybrid talents https://www.wowhead.com/classic/talent-calc/rogue/005-02330500205001-05
Maximizes my hit/crit, backstab/mutilate crit, and damage.
- 22% passive crit (with raid buffs from other people 27%),
- +30% on mutilate,
- +5% hit chance (I miss a LOT LESS attacks against players => more damage to them),
- +20% damage mutilate from behind (and +20% if target is poisoned from rune),
- Improved sprint gives me a dispel from movement-impairing effects against frost-nova, root, without it only vanish can do that.
Now with these talents:
- I can kill:
– lvl 42-43 NPCs with 230+ dps on average,
– lvl 40s I can pull off 400+ dps if I get lucky.
– lvl 44 is pretty fine can kill two or 3 in a row without eating
– lvl 45 some I can easy and some give a pretty nice challenge because on 45s I start to “parry parry dodge dodge, miss”
Tested the sub and got 160 DPS on average (lvl 40-43) for the same mobs and a few times died because well they deal damage to me. 44 is challenging, 45 is hardly possible.
Tested assassination and got about 200 dps on average (lvl 40-43). 44 are ok, 45 almost die every time, because poison procs which assassination specializes are almost nonexistent, and this is where combat talents come into play.
I can finally do proper AoE with Blade Fury, comes in handy in fights where they don’t focus me, i can rampage and even more if tea is not on cooldown.
Even if it’s only one additional target, the damage output of it is crazy! I can take down two lvl 40+ npcs with ease.
So I would strongly argue, that from my personal experience, play style and tests… that for BG (not arenas or duels) and PvE right now with the 31 talent point cap these are the best talents for rogue. This can chance in next phase as more talents will be available.
I can sustain high DPS output in raids (only melee hunter out damaged me) for longer periods and also do high burst damage for killing mobs or players.
Dash while slowed is not optional. Abolish poison is crap cause you’ll have 8+ poisons on you. You can’t get away from a rouge. And if you still manage to run away, the rogue will shadowstep