Just wondering if there’s ever a situation where you are in the process of casting Fireball with a Heating Up proc and no Fire Blasts to convert it to a Pyroblast! and if so, what you should do: cancel the Fireball cast and do nothing while you wait for Fire Blast to come off CD, or something else?
you obviously just cast the fireball, if it doesnt crit you will get another crit soon enough, just standing there is never an option for any spec in any situation afaik.
(well maybe healers lol)
Happens pretty often, actually. And yeah, like said above, you just cast the fireball. If you were to cancel it you would lose a lot more dps than potentially wasting a heating up proc.
Yea just keep spamming fireball, by the time you wait for a fireblast you could have cast 2 fireballs and got another proc. If you stand afk you lose the damage from those 2 fireballs you didn’t cast and your ignite will shrink right down from not hitting anything
Well if it were obvious to me, I wouldn’t have asked the question.
The problem I was wondering about with its not critting is not that I didn’t get another crit, but that I lost my Heating Up proc.
Anyway thanks for the reply.
You’ve gone into the damage lost from not casting Fireballs, but you haven’t mentioned the damage you lose from losing a Heating Up proc if the Fireball doesn’t crit.
Ah but getting another proc (by which I take it you mean another crit) isn’t enough: you need 2 crits in a row or else you lose the proc.
You didnt lose anything, when you are sitting on full charges, then you are losing them, another way to lose them is to cast them when you already hot streak or to gain a heating up that you lose with a fireball that doesnt end up critting.
Also i said its obvious because there are quite a few fire mages in the world and not once have i seen this question be asked.
I mean got a heating up proc
say you’re sitting on a heating up with no fireblast to make a hot streak.
you cast fireball, about 40% of the time you get a hot streak you carry on as normal.
60% of the time you lose the hot streak and keep casting until you get another heating up, at which point you have a fireblast ready to make a hot streak
Imho keep casting fireballs, you won’t lose anything since fire blast has 3 charges (with talent ofc) so if you break heating up with non-crit fireball you will just cast fire blast later, as long you won’t cap fire blast at 3 charges there’s no lose
You clearly didn’t understand my question, since this is the exact thing I was asking about. Let me explain it again. I get a Heating Up proc whilst at 0 Fire Blast charges (so I can’t convert the proc to a Hot Streak). Do I keep casting Fireballs (thus risking losing the Heating Up proc with a Fireball which doesn’t crit, as you mentioned) or do I do nothing until my Fire Blast comes off cd? I mean I could just go and do the math on this of course, but I’m interested to hear people’s replies on the subject in any case.
I already did say this:
…and this begs the question ‘At what point (in terms of the length of time left on your Fire blast cd) does it become better to stop casting Fireballs and just do nothing?’
No the problem here isn’t capping Fire Blast charges. If you have 1 or more Fire Blast charges there’s no problem. You just convert the proc to a Hot Streak. The problem is when you have 0 charges, do you keep casting Fireball and risk losing your Heating Up proc and if so at which point in terms of the length of time left until you get a charge of Fire Blast do you refrain from casting Fireballs but do nothing instead?
Dude, you didn’t understand 
Look, imagine you have MAX 1 charge of Fire Blast
In your scenario first fireball crits, second doesn’t, heating up disappears, damn! Fire Blast just came off cd and it’s cooldown is wasting now! 
BUT! We have 3 charges max! <3 So nothing happened, 1st charge is ready and we’re not losing anything, just second charge is loading.
Fire Blast is wrongly used only when you have 3 charges capped and combustion won’t be ready soon AND when you cast it without heating up (unless you have guaranteed crits from firestarter/scorch).
I don’t know how easier I can explain this to you You can always check for yourself on training dummy those two scenarios.
Oh I think I did.
Well actually it’s not the Fire Blast cd which is wasted (what would that even mean?): it’s the Heating Up proc which is wasted, but yeah you have the right scenario at least.
lolwat? Let me rephrase that for you: we lost a Heating Up proc. Not being funny but you appear to have no idea what you’re talking about.
Where in my question did I say anything about wrongly using Fire Blast? My question isn’t about when to use Fire Blast. It’s about whether and when to cast Fireballs when you have 0 Fire Blast charges and a Heating Up proc.
Actually if I was going to work it out myself, I would just work out the amount of time until getting a Fire Blast charge up at which the expected damage from casting Fireballs becomes lower than the damage from just waiting for Fire Blast to come off CD and converting the proc to a Hot Streak (and of course I’d have to consider the probability of getting 2 crits in a row from Fireball casts and factor that in).
Seems like you did not.
If ANY spell has a cooldown and you’re not using it every time it’s available then you’re wasting its cooldown. That’s why Fire Mages have Fire Blast baseline at 2 charges, so even if you won’t use it as soon as first charge comes off cooldown you won’t waste it.
I wonder whether you know what maths and logic is… SO YOU LOST HEATING UP PROC - AND? I’ll cast few fireballs more and I got next one and Fire Blast will be off cd.
I wrote it to explain that waiting for Fire Blast cd is dumb. Ok, last attempt:
> fireball crits, heating up
> fireblast has 5 seconds cd
> next fireball doesn’t crit, heating up lost
> now you have 1 fire blast charge
> cast 3 more fireballs, last one crits, heating up
> you have now 2 fire blast charges
> use fire blast, hot streak
> fireball followed by pyro, fireball or pyro crits, heating up (seriously I hope you know why it is done)
> fire blast, hot streak
> fireball+pyro
I casted 7 fireballs, 2 fire blast, 2 pyros
If I would ignore 3rd line, I would be behind by 1 fireball, why?
Because if I would wait I would still got 2 fire blasts within this time, ergo it would be still only 2 hot streaks IN WORST SCENARIO assuming second fireball won’t crit, with crit I would got 3 pyros
Well, I already answered to this thread, but since you still have your doubts, let me very clearly say it: you do not under any circumstances cancel casting fireballs and do nothing instead just because you cannot convert a heating up to a hotstreak. Never. And it’s not even a debate. If you still think that this is wrong: you’re free to play however you like, but if you want to play well, opinions don’t often matter.
(PS. mechanics aside, there’s never a reason to stop casting in general either, you always need to be doing something).
Well you’ve just contradicted yourself there. First you say you waste it if you don’t use it every time it’s available. Then you say that you won’t waste it even if you won’t use it as soon as first charge comes off cooldown, as you have 2 charges (3 actually with my talents).
With a 1st class Honours in Maths, apprarently I do ha.
Not if you don’t get 2 crits in a row you won’t. You’ll end up with no Heating Up proc to use when your Fire Blast comes off cd. (By the way, let me make it clear here that I’m not saying here that it’s right not to cast Fireballs. The reason I made this post is to check what is the right course of action).
Well it doesn’t explain that. How would talking about how Fire Blast is wrongly used explain anything about whether or not to cast Fireballs at a given time?
Mine has 8.2 second CD.
No I don’t. I have 0 charges and 4 seconds until Fire Blast off cd.
No I have 1 charge and about 6 seconds until my next charge comes up.
I guess this is because one is generally spamming Fireball casts and doesn’t have the reaction time to stop the instant one gets a Heating Up proc. Since fb is off gcd you can just convert the proc during Fireball cast. That what you’re talking about?
The alternative I was asking about was to refrain from casting any Fireballs at all, so as far as Fireballs are concerned you’d be behind by 2 or 3, since my Fire Blast has an 8.2 second recharge.
Wo. Slow down there soldier. I never said I thought it was wrong. I was just asking the question and then responding to people’s replies.
OMG
You know something about shaman ele? They have something called LAVA BURST and it has just COOLDOWN and NO CHARGES and this spell sometimes RESETS and when it HAPPENS sometimes you can’t cast it immediately and this spell now has no cooldown, seconds are passing and you still can’t use it for some reason, THIS IS WASTING COOLDOWN. BUT elemental shamans have talent called ECHO which gives LAVA BURST TWO CHARGES INSTEAD ONE. Now, if you won’t cast Lava right after coming off cooldown NOTHING BAD HAPPENS cause second charge is loading.
And no. I wrote everything needed here. Use your “math brain” and figure it out
Bro we’ve already been through this. What you being silly for? I NEVER AT ANY POINT SAID ANYTHING BAD WOULD HAPPEN AS A RESULT OF NOT USING A FIRE BLAST CHARGE. NO IDEA WHY YOU KEEP ON BANGING ON ABOUT IT. IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND?
…sorry which yes/no question are you answering here? I don’t remember asking one.
Yeah everything needed to prove that you’re either trolling or trying to cover up the fact that you had little to no idea what you were talking about when you first replied ha (or maybe even pretending to be trolling to try to cover up the latter. If you are trolling though or you’ve started to troll for the 2nd reason, please find something better to do and save us both the trouble. Otherwise, if you didn’t know what you were talking about, it’s no big deal bruv: chill.
Do whatever you want. You have informations here, just try to understand and test it yourself. bye
Let’s say you have 3 seconds left until Fire Blast comes off cd (Fireball is a 1.8 second cast). You’re telling me it’s better to risk losing a Heating Up proc for 1 extra Fireball cast?
It does not matter how long there is until fireblast is off cd, you do not cancel cast. There’s no wiggle-room here, and if even if there was you trying to min-max an insignificant dps gain would just result in a chaotic mess where you would lose out dps. And that’s speaking hypothetically, because there is no dps gain from cancelling casts, because if there was people would be doing it already.
Just don’t try to make this tactic work, because it won’t, and it’ll result in a headache. It’s not worth anyone’s time either way. You’re trying to min-max a situation where (HYPOTHETICALLY, IT’S STILL A DPS LOSS NO MATTER HOW GOOD YOUR TIMING IS) cancelling in a 0.0001 second window would result in a +1 dps increase and otherwise a dps loss. Not only is that ridiculous, but only a robot could achieve it. And yes, I did use a hyperbole, but in reality that’s the type of a situation it would have to be.
And I just want to add: while you can do a lot of different min-maxing to increase your dps even by just a tiny bit, before you do it you need to have concrete evidence that this is worth doing, and not impossible to execute each time. It’s good that you’re trying to look for these min-max tactics, but I’m afraid to say that this is not a situation where you want to be doing anything of the sort.
To be honest I’m not sure it’s quite as awkward as you suggest. If for some reason you’re not aware that you are at 0 fb charges you find out after you try to use it, at which point you should have a rough idea how long it is 'til it’s off cd even if for some reason you can’t look at your weak aura. Granted it is more difficult than just spamming Fireballs, if only slightly, but then you’re going to want to know when you’re Fire Blast comes off cd anyway, else you keep pressing the ability for no reason, thus wasting time, so actually it’s not necessarily much more difficult imo, much as I prefer an easy rotation. Maybe you’re right. Maybe the mental confusion it can cause is such that you would lose enough dps from trying to do it that it becomes pointless to try to do it.
You have to admit though that if it were possible to do it without undue trauma/confusion, it would at least be worthwile in the case of there only been 3 seconds left on fb cd I think.
Fair play. Have a good evening.