Dont bother with him,he cant understand probably raids in guild only never pugs or lfr
Shocking, but even teenagers deal with complex emotions. An adult knows how to deal with them without venting them on random Ppl.
The fact you donāt understand this enforces the idea that you are in fact not an adult.
Youāre not worth the time or energy to respond to, and it has nothing to do with the original point of the thread so Iām not going to derail it any further.
You ran out arguments already. Better luck next time.
So like personal loot people who dont need an item can get themā¦ wow breaking news that.
So if he doesnt agree with you, heās a troll? Niiiiceā¦
Because its easy with tierā¦ other items not so muchā¦ does it have better stats, some time it is a dps increase to drop ilvl for right stats, an effect that might make it superioir to a higher ilvl one ect.
Have you ever passed on an item in DF because of any reason? If the answer is yes, then thatās your answer. PL never passes loot on your behalf.
I absolutely agree people should be rewarded for beating challenges and that we should be getting a lot more USEFUL items in every content.
But I disagree with sentimental arguing and with peopleās obsession towards a system they donāt even fully understand.
Cata random HCs had group loot and I could gear a character fully in a week while M+ has PL and I still need items after months. Howās that possible ???
Is it because GL is better? Or is it because they awarded 4x as many items? I know you guys donāt like math but give this a try.
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I have because Iāll get a trinket with str on it that I can roll need for. On my druid. Who went in as resto, and with that spec selected for loot. Of course Iāll pass on stuff that is of no use to me. I have had this sorta thing happen multiple times, and it puzzled me very much. With PL the items were always at least appropriate for my class and spec.
Either way, I think GL is a crappy system for pugs. The thing Iād have changed about PL is simply the option to offer a PL item to the rest of the group with a need/greed/mog window with one click, instead of having to ask in chat and wait for rolls while the tanks obviously already happily took off and are getting their heads smashed in.
I think nobody complained about GL back in the day when it dropped far more items. And now we hear some complaints about PL in M+ which can be traced back to the same problem.
Iām just guessing here but I believe the problem isnāt the system but the amount of upgrades weāre getting.
No. I think itās very much, to my original point, that bad actors are currently capable of ruining it for others.
Group loot has flaws. Personal Loot has flaws. I didnāt start this to discuss the intricacies of how each system works. Merely to point out that currently, as it stands, Group Loot is open to exploitation from people with no consideration of the general populace.
I think itās more complex. Rolling on items you did not need was frowned upon, even years after server reputation stopped mattering. I do think there is less consideration of others in that sense these days. In combination with allowing gold trading cross server itās no wonder GL for pugs is not a great system at this point in time.
The problem is you donāt understand how PL works.
PL: A boss dies and drops 0.15 āitemsā per player (3 at 20)
It does a hidden roll for EVERYONE and the winners receive a random item matching their loot spec.
GL: A boss dies and drops 0.20 random items per player (4 at 20) that some players can roll on. Maybe some nobody can use.
The reason people *ARE getting less loot has nothing to do with:
Ninjaing
The total number of items that dropped
and everything to do with useless items being generated.
Noā¦ Youāre the person who came in trying to drive the argument of whether there is more or less loot with PL or GLā¦ yet again, you have completely failed to comprehend this entire post is about the human interaction of bad actors stealing something from someone else.
The more you respond, the more you make it clear that youāre not an individual who understands social interactions and human emotion based on the actions of others and are only obsessed with numbers and whether it āall adds upā.
I have ZERO. Iāll say that again, cause you like numbers, ZERO problems with doing an entire raid and not getting any loot because
A: Nothing I need dropped
B: I didnāt win any of the rolls.
Both of those scenarios, while they suck, are completely fair and just. The system is working as intended. Sure, it would be nice for some protections against bows dropping when there are no Hunters in the raid or there never being an item dropping that nobody in the raid needs anymore but in reality thatās the nature of the game.
What I do have a problem with, and back to the entire point of the post, is when people exploit the system resulting in a feeling of injustice, unfairness and straight up feeling robbed of something that you had earnt.
But please, explain to me how having a better understanding of maths or how PL or GL works fixes the fact that when hidden behind the anonymity of the internet, and the complete lack of any consequences to their actions, there is a very large populace of individuals who will act like complete arseholes and steal things from others.
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If thatās your only argument then
āThey participated in the kill and have just as much right to roll on the item as you, whether they need it for transmog, disenchant or sell to the NPC for 20G. They earned it as much as you have.ā
Cheers.
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No. You donāt NEED transmog. Transmog does not enable you to progress through the game. You donāt get judged when you sign up to a raid on how on point your transmog is.
You only NEED items that provide a power increase. End of argument.
Even more so now they have the upgrade system. You donāt NEED a piece of Champion loot if you already have Champion or Hero. I donāt care if itās 3 upgrades higher than your current, you can upgrade what you already have, but the person who is stuck with a Veteran piece NEEDS that Champion piece or they simply cannot progress. There is no upgrading to the next tier.
And just because I feel like it, as youāre so set on trying to deconstruct my argument. Let me deconstruct yours. PL is superior and hereās the maths to prove it.
There is a number, it might be a very large number, but there is a non-infinite number where youāve been given enough loot from PL that you will, with absolute certainty, EVENTUALLY get the piece of loot you want.
But with Group Loot, in a Pugging environment, with the constant cycling of players and the opportunity for unscrupulous individuals to abuse and exploit said system, there is a possibility that you will NEVER get the particular piece of loot you want, because itās surrounded by an infinite number of variables that can never be quantified.
Cheers.
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Iāll just say this, i dont think the āproblemā is as big as itās made out as.
Iāve done a complete LFR clear, 2 full normal clears, and a 8/9 HC clear in the last 2 daysā¦ Full pug (except 1 friend) no one was selling their loot.
The only ādramaā was 2 people /w everyone who won an item if they could buy it, which was just ignored since the people that pressed need, and won, needed the items 
I ones again have to wonder, like the million posts about leavers, we now have a million posts about āpeople ninjaing loot, and selling it in raidsā Why doesnāt it happen to me?
I canāt answer that. I have seen it happen multiple times myself that someone tried to sell an item. And there have been several discussions about someone winning an item they did not need, and people responding they just need on everything they can.
I donāt mind them doing that so much, the system allows for it, they put in time and effort etc. But itās a guarantee for annoyance and resentment. I find it mostly tiresome, all of it including the discussions lol, and would just like PL back.
As it is now, I find it demotivating and unfun to even run that content, while I enjoyed it in the past.
Out of curiosity, what weapon was it?
And you can spam it, not like raids. Comparing that to raids is stupid.
Read again, I was comparing it to M+.
Bs the wow forums are the biggest echo chamber around. The amount of times Iāve been flagged for simply disagreeing is ridiculous
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